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The sheer amount of idiotic elitist dick-waving in this thread is unbelievable.
This is going to get patched, lord around all you want for now with the "well you're obviously just not as competitive as I am" bullshit then you can cry about how blizzard is taking all the "skillfull" mechanics out of the game when it gets patched.
There's nothing remotely strategic, skill-related, or intentional about this. It's a band-aid on the fact that they fucked up the resource gathering code a little bit to where you can do it faster manually. You're not a better player for doing something like this every game. Sure it might give you a slightly better chance of winning, but don't confuse that with being better than anyone else.
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On September 13 2010 06:55 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:51 iEchoic wrote:Another problem with this is that it's going to be very easy to exploit. You could write up a macro to queue these actions with any software that comes with any razer/logitech product and zip through your scvs doing this really easily. On September 13 2010 06:47 Sylvr wrote:On September 13 2010 06:42 iEchoic wrote:On September 13 2010 06:39 Sylvr wrote:
Why do idiots assume that this trick is mandatory? ...This trick is only going to be useful at high levels of play. It has no downside, only an upside. It's mandatory if you want to compete (which I do) . It just made the game less fun for me. Video games are for fun. If things like this are tedious to you, then I think you aren't as competitive as you think you are. I am competitive, but I don't take pride in out-clicking my opponent. I'm a thinking human being, and this is a strategy game, I'm not a robot mashing the big red button on hungry hungry hippos. Alright, but pretty sure those are illegal(I would hope so at the very least.) Congragulations, even businesses are doing better now!
Wait, what, you think the software that comes packaged with Logitech and Razer products are illegal? Or do you mean against B.net rules? Because I'm 100% sure Blizzard isn't going to be banning people for using software that came with their keyboard, including software that comes with the SC2-sponsored razer keyboard o_0
On September 13 2010 06:55 TaimalaiX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:51 iEchoic wrote:
I am competitive, but I don't take pride in out-clicking my opponent. I'm a thinking human being, and this is a strategy game, I'm not a robot mashing the big red button on hungry hungry hippos. Clearly you're new to Hungry, Hungry Hippos. It's all about timing.
I loled
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On September 13 2010 06:53 psion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:44 iEchoic wrote:On September 13 2010 06:43 ltortoise wrote:On September 13 2010 06:34 Half wrote:
Literally anybody could do this if they put enough time into doing it. You could actually train an ape to do it. Getting good at doing this says nothing about your RTS skills. It says nothing about your thought process. Literally the only thing it does is signal that you've practiced it a lot.
You couldn't train an ape to stop doing it though based on the current state of the game. On September 13 2010 06:02 ltortoise wrote:
Sure, but name any other macro mechanic in SC2 that works like that. Every single macro mechanic I can think of involves choice. There is no choice here except to do it as often as possible without sacrificing bigger parts of your game. In ideology, yes, but in practice, no, because all the SC2 macro mechanics are designed and balanced around being used. Its suboptimal player, up until very very very late game, to not inject Hatches. It doesn't scale heavily with skill, beyond a certain point. You watch Idra player, and unless he screws up (like IEM game 5), he almost never misses until he gets more then 3 bases. Larvae inject is a choice. You are choosing how to spend the Queen's energy, and that's just a fact. Even for Idra, there are situations where he chooses to miss injections, for instance if he's being banshee rushed and is using his queen's for defense. Or maybe he simply doesn't need the larvae and would rather spread creep. These situations happen. Exactly. This mechanic involves no choice. There is no choice like between a scan and a mule. It's basically "just do it and get free minerals, if you don't, you don't". There's no strategical merit to this at all. I love how SC1 players think that doing stupid mindless clicking bullshit is the epitome of skill. This is the kind of stuff that makes games less likely to become legitimate e-sports. Sending workers to minerals has no strategical merit. It's basically "just do it and get free minerals, if you don't, you don't."
No, there's no strategy involved. It's something you have to do to stay in the game. This thread isn't really going anywhere, BW was hard partly due to engine limitations and how players would adapt and deal with them. Yes, it requires mechanical skill, without a doubt. But Blizzard had their reasons for taking these limitations out in SC2, and those same reasons will probably apply here.
I don't see the point in the cock measuring contest of "Well I think a lot of clicks is skillful" or "I think it reduces strategy of the game". You can't deny that this you need skill to pull this off throughout games, nor can you deny that there's nothing remotely strategic, deep or interesting about it.
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Exactly. This mechanic involves no choice. There is no choice like between a scan and a mule. It's basically "just do it and get free minerals, if you don't, you don't". There's no strategical merit to this at all.
I love how SC1 players think that doing stupid mindless clicking bullshit is the epitome of skill. This is the kind of stuff that makes game less likely to become legitimate e-sports.
I love how shallow SC2 players understanding of competitive gaming is.
Lets look at the casuals obsession with "decision making". You'll find a lot of that on forums like SClegacy.
Decision making is only significant and skillful when the complexity and time allotted to make the decision is greater then player skill. Otherwise, the decision becomes integrated into the metagame and nobody ever thinks about it again on the spot. For instance, one could make the decision to make a supply depot at seven, it is "OMG DECISION MAKIN", but realistically, you will not.
So for a casual player, shallow decisions will increase a games depth. However, once you get to a competitive level, shallow decisions, like whether to spawn larvae or inject, or what to chrono boost, these just become reactions or decided ahead of time (scanning arguably continues to remain a complex decision on a pro level).
In order for a decision to continue to remain deep and meaningful on a pro level, it either needs to be a lot more complicated or it needs to become more reactive IE: There is less time to think about it.
SC2 and SC1 have never had truly complex abilities. They shouldn't, because another core element of SC1 and SC2 is simplicity and intuitive. Instead, they are more reactive. And the way it promotes this is through "mechanics".
And "Less likely a legitimate Esport? Excuse me? Find an "Esport" more "legitimate" then Starcraft:BW. You will fail.
I am competitive, but I don't take pride in out-clicking my opponent
People like you are Hilarious. I'm sorry do you have a physical disability that prevents you from hitting keyboard buttons 3 times a second? If so, I am truely sorry, and I can totally understand your complaints.
People who have faster -APM are not faster clickers. Any normal, healthy, human being can hit there keyboard three hundred times a minute. They are faster thinkers, with faster muscle memory. They are better then you.
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On September 13 2010 06:55 wxwx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:30 Fantistic wrote:On September 13 2010 06:25 wxwx wrote:boring repetitive crap. I spend my mining time chatting with friends/opponent, grabbing a drink, or whatever.. And now you're saying I can't anymore? Probably not gonna GL HF anymore too. That would put me back 20 minerals.  IMO this is bad for the game.. This isn't really micro, since you have nothing to micro against. It's basically just routine spamming that anyone can do with practice. There's no split-second decision making or reaction micro... It's just a predetermined clicking routine... Might as well award minerals to the player who types the alphabet backwards while droning... That's "keyboard skill" too am i right?  Let me summarise this: "I'm lazy." This Fantistic guy is probably button mashing @ his mineral line, thinking to himself how 'hard-working' he is while he moves his mouse across the desk at the speed of light. We're talking about a videogame. In the end, he's playing this game in his free time, with his ass in a chair.
@IEchoic, I'm talking about in tournaments.
Its also an Esport, a competitive one in addition. Sure, if you just want to play a couple of games each day, just for pure fun, not for any real motivation to improve vastly, than I'm positive you'll be in a league where you won't have to do this.
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On September 13 2010 06:51 Gecko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:47 iEchoic wrote:On September 13 2010 06:46 Half wrote:On September 13 2010 06:42 iEchoic wrote:On September 13 2010 06:39 Sylvr wrote:
Why do idiots assume that this trick is mandatory? ...This trick is only going to be useful at high levels of play. It has no downside, only an upside. It's mandatory if you want to compete (which I do) . It just made the game less fun for me. Video games are for fun. lolwut. You simultaneously want a competitive game and a game with less avenues for competitive development. I think you would be pretty well suited for WoW arenas. Doing repetitive clicking crap isn't competitive development, give me a break. It creates a mechanical skill gap between players, and improving your mechanical skill is competitive development.
Oh gosh are you some kind of die-hard BW fan or do you just hate life? How can someone consider this as a positive aspect of the game. It's really beyond me.
People like you would probably love to have 4 read buttons, each in one corner of the screen constantly flash up and if you hit them fast enough you get +5 minerals. You'd do so the whole game through because it's a "nice skill toi have".
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This trick should be called sockfolding period!
And btw very nice find, I myself will never use it since on my rating it doesn't matter but all those top diamanders out there have fun with it  .
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oops
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Well I personally think sockfolding is a cool new find that adds to the game
I think the nay sayers are greatly over reacting to something that won't have a huge impact.
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People here seem to have trouble understanding the concept of "Competitive". A competitive player will see this and say "Here is something that I can do that might give me an edge. If my opponent doesn't do it, then I am better than them in this area."
This trick is nothing more than another "area" in which to be better than your opponent. It's no different than worker splitting or worker queuing. If you keep cutting out ways for competitive players to get an edge, then you're asking for a boring, low skill-cap game that anyone can master. Go play Pong.
Just because they don't add another layer of skill in an area that you WANT it to be in doesn't make it objectively worse. Learn to distinguish your opinions from facts.
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someone please name an BW mechanic that was similar to this other than splitting workers because i honestly can't think of one.
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Instead of pointless bashing, imma just give credit to where credit is due. nice find sock! Bug or not, keeper or trash, thats for blizz to decide.
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Select all workers, hold 'c' has the same effect and requires like 50 times less apm.
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On September 13 2010 06:55 wxwx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:30 Fantistic wrote:On September 13 2010 06:25 wxwx wrote:boring repetitive crap. I spend my mining time chatting with friends/opponent, grabbing a drink, or whatever.. And now you're saying I can't anymore? Probably not gonna GL HF anymore too. That would put me back 20 minerals. IMO this is bad for the game.. This isn't really micro, since you have nothing to micro against. It's basically just routine spamming that anyone can do with practice. There's no split-second decision making or reaction micro... It's just a predetermined clicking routine... Might as well award minerals to the player who types the alphabet backwards while droning... That's "keyboard skill" too am i right? Let me summarise this: "I'm lazy." This Fantistic guy is probably button mashing @ his mineral line, thinking to himself how 'hard-working' he is while he moves his mouse across the desk at the speed of light. We're talking about a videogame. In the end, he's playing this game in his free time, with his ass in a chair.
Thanks for the compliment.
Enjoy your beverage whilst I warm up with an economical advantage.
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On September 13 2010 06:57 Half wrote:Show nested quote +Exactly. This mechanic involves no choice. There is no choice like between a scan and a mule. It's basically "just do it and get free minerals, if you don't, you don't". There's no strategical merit to this at all.
I love how SC1 players think that doing stupid mindless clicking bullshit is the epitome of skill. This is the kind of stuff that makes game less likely to become legitimate e-sports. And "Less likely a legitimate Esport? Excuse me? Find an "Esport" more "legitimate" then Starcraft:BW. You will fail.
Not to take away from the rest of the content in your post, but there's a metric ton of esport games that are more 'legitimate' than BW. Last time I checked Korea didn't represent the world as a whole.. and the world moved on from BW a long time ago.
Perspective.
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On September 13 2010 06:55 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:51 iEchoic wrote:Another problem with this is that it's going to be very easy to exploit. You could write up a macro to queue these actions with any software that comes with any razer/logitech product and zip through your scvs doing this really easily. On September 13 2010 06:47 Sylvr wrote:On September 13 2010 06:42 iEchoic wrote:On September 13 2010 06:39 Sylvr wrote:
Why do idiots assume that this trick is mandatory? ...This trick is only going to be useful at high levels of play. It has no downside, only an upside. It's mandatory if you want to compete (which I do) . It just made the game less fun for me. Video games are for fun. If things like this are tedious to you, then I think you aren't as competitive as you think you are. I am competitive, but I don't take pride in out-clicking my opponent. I'm a thinking human being, and this is a strategy game, I'm not a robot mashing the big red button on hungry hungry hippos. Alright, but pretty sure those are illegal(I would hope so at the very least.) Congragulations, even businesses are doing better now! And this a RTS, but this is also an Real time strategy GAME. If you want to be competitive you should be able to master the game inside and out, and to the best of your ability be able to mine the best. Downsides? Oh my gosh, you can't be lazy for the first 3 minutes of the game! You actually have to do stuff! The way I see it this is another trick that can help differentiate the pros from the Joes, and will help increase the skill gap that will make SC2 live on.
You may be right, and it may be a trick that can differentiate the 'pros from the joes,' but while you're making that argument, you're completely ignoring the direction Blizzard has taken from BW to SC2 in reducing button-mashing nonsensical things like this.
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On September 13 2010 06:58 mahnini wrote:
someone please name an BW mechanic that was similar to this other than splitting workers because i honestly can't think of one.
Why does it have to be similar to a BW mechanic? I think SC2 should make it's own high level mechanics such as sockfolding.
Like almost every caster has "coined" (HD started saying this in his old BW casts), Starcraft is a game of seconds. Anywhere you can shave seconds puts you ahead of other players. Look at Jaedong in any ZvZ matchup. They can go identical build orders and do everything the same. The thing is that Jaedong will optimize anywhere he can. He'll have 6 zerglings out and across the map 3 seconds before his opponent.
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just wanted to add something.. i am your decent player but not top/pro level.
i find a lot of tricks really cool, like keeping charge on void ray.. extending zealot charge range.. block expo with worker. After finding out about these I remember loading up the game and trying them right away.
These are so much more admirable/elegant than being able to click on mineral patches..
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I think this might have to do with the Deceleration and Acceleration levels of Probes. If so, it will most likely not get patched, as there is nothing wrong going on.
I have no idea why some people are complaining. This is a trick that could give players who take the effort to do it a very miniscule economic boost. If you dislike it, don't do it. Nothing has changed, you literally have nothing to complain about.
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On September 13 2010 06:59 Azile wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:57 Half wrote:Exactly. This mechanic involves no choice. There is no choice like between a scan and a mule. It's basically "just do it and get free minerals, if you don't, you don't". There's no strategical merit to this at all.
I love how SC1 players think that doing stupid mindless clicking bullshit is the epitome of skill. This is the kind of stuff that makes game less likely to become legitimate e-sports. And "Less likely a legitimate Esport? Excuse me? Find an "Esport" more "legitimate" then Starcraft:BW. You will fail. Not to take away from the rest of the content in your post, but there's a metric ton of esport games that are more 'legitimate' than BW. Last time I checked Korea didn't represent the world as a whole.. and the world moved on from BW a long time ago. Perspective.
OK, which games? I can think of one that might come close: Quake (and that means its an entire series versus a single game. i'd even add painkiller into this even though that is not the same game mechanics were very similar.)
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EPT
