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On September 13 2010 07:13 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Has anyone theorycrafting, besides the OP actually tried doing it with more then 2 workers?
After running through it 4-5 times, I managed to get a 10 Nexus (Adjacent to my starting nexus) at 1:45 cut down to...
A 10 Nexus at 1:44
Ahahahaha :D Hilarious.
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Zerg's are going to be coming out with some pretty fast 6 pools 
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so many armchair warriors...
30 mins extra from early mule is only thing you can squeeze from this, like if terran needed any help
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On September 13 2010 07:15 Fantistic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 07:07 Pandain wrote:On September 13 2010 07:04 iEchoic wrote:
People on this forum are apparently unable to realize that something can cause a game to take more skill and still be a bad game design decision. The typical argument so far is "this increases the skill cap, therefore it's a good addition". I have a list of some other things that would greatly increase the skill gap:
1) None of your units have any AI. Every time an SCV returns minerals, he sits at the CC, waiting for you to return him to mine
2) Whenever you want to create a unit, you must solve a partial differential equation first.
3) An on-screen keyboard prompts you to play Fur Elise while macroing
If any of these things were implemented, this game's skill cap would go through the roof. It would be the most skill-intensive game ever created. But guess what? It would blow.
High skill cap != good design. Yeah, but that game would be lame and too hard and no one would want to play it. Skill cap is good for a game, don't take it to the utmost extreme. Also, I didn't imagine this outcry about this. I thought people would love this. Hmm.... thread in the making. I want to remind people this is not a strategy, it is a macro trick. A lot of us do love this but, where there are supporters, there are there are always going opposition. Supporters being players who want to an extra advantage over their opponents. Opposers being players who are lazy and can't be bothered to implement a simple feature in order to get ahead or scared of having to put in more effort to be equal to their opponent. Casuals, this is SC2. It's already been noobified and made much easier than BW. If you want to relax then play CoD or FarmVille.
This post is retarded.
If a player doesn't want an APM sink but wants to spend more time doing more interesting stuff (managing your base, your army, scouting etc.) he's instantly a 'casual CoD/farmville' player? I don't care about this feature/bug personally, but jesus christ dude, are you for real?
Some players will like having APM sinks, some players won't. Being one of the former or latter won't instantly make you a 100% casual player who's only able to play mindless FPS games. Really, it's true.
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I just tested this and I found out you dont even need to press/hold down c
all you have to do is shift click the minerals...
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Awesome addition.
The game needs a more mechanical aspect to it, and to top it off its hard to do. This means some low diamond noob's cheese is much weaker versus me because i will be able to get stuff out that much quicker. This is also very similar to BWs worker split which you had to work at for a little bit to get it down reliably. It serves the same purpose (getting minerals out faster) but took hand dexterity (some that isn't really present in sc2). Although it didn't wow the crowd, players who know the game can respect the amount of skill it takes, which is how macro behaves when watching pro sc1.
And to those thinking that the game is only about strategy it isn't. If it was only about strategy, why not add in auto build on units instead of manually trying to pump them out one at a time to increase efficiency? Or patrol micro for vultures... Why not just give them the phoenix ability instead of the just clicking things? If you want to play something that is just strategy go play chess or something. This is a video game - clicking shit is fun.
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On September 13 2010 07:18 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 07:15 Fantistic wrote:On September 13 2010 07:07 Pandain wrote:On September 13 2010 07:04 iEchoic wrote:
People on this forum are apparently unable to realize that something can cause a game to take more skill and still be a bad game design decision. The typical argument so far is "this increases the skill cap, therefore it's a good addition". I have a list of some other things that would greatly increase the skill gap:
1) None of your units have any AI. Every time an SCV returns minerals, he sits at the CC, waiting for you to return him to mine
2) Whenever you want to create a unit, you must solve a partial differential equation first.
3) An on-screen keyboard prompts you to play Fur Elise while macroing
If any of these things were implemented, this game's skill cap would go through the roof. It would be the most skill-intensive game ever created. But guess what? It would blow.
High skill cap != good design. Yeah, but that game would be lame and too hard and no one would want to play it. Skill cap is good for a game, don't take it to the utmost extreme. Also, I didn't imagine this outcry about this. I thought people would love this. Hmm.... thread in the making. I want to remind people this is not a strategy, it is a macro trick. A lot of us do love this but, where there are supporters, there are there are always going opposition. Supporters being players who want to an extra advantage over their opponents. Opposers being players who are lazy and can't be bothered to implement a simple feature in order to get ahead or scared of having to put in more effort to be equal to their opponent. Casuals, this is SC2. It's already been noobified and made much easier than BW. If you want to relax then play CoD or FarmVille. This post is retarded. If a player doesn't want an APM sink but wants to spend more time doing more interesting stuff (managing your base, your army, scouting etc.) he's instantly a 'casual CoD/farmville' player? I don't care about this feature/bug personally, but jesus christ dude, are you for real? Some players will like having APM sinks, some players won't. Being one of the former or latter won't instantly make you a 100% casual player who's only able to play mindless FPS games. Really, it's true.
My point: SC2 isn't a game for relaxation.
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On September 13 2010 07:18 shizi wrote:
I just tested this and I found out you dont even need to press/hold down c
all you have to do is shift click the minerals...
Is this correct?
Wouldn't the queue order make it so you used all your shift clicks in one instant?
As for this feature, it seems nice. A 1 second difference or maybe 2 sec difference won't make or break the game anywhere below the pro level so I will just ignore it for my play while watching the pros in awe of the multitasking. 
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On September 13 2010 06:58 mahnini wrote:
someone please name an BW mechanic that was similar to this other than splitting workers because i honestly can't think of one.
Try this one: The exact same thing. That is, manually sending an SCV to/from the CC/minerals after they've finished delivering, or finished mining did make a tiny difference (probably not as much) in BW.
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On September 13 2010 06:50 qoiN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:48 CooLMaN wrote:On September 13 2010 06:44 frog HERO wrote:On September 13 2010 06:43 CooLMaN wrote:On September 13 2010 06:38 Zurles wrote:On September 13 2010 06:32 CooLMaN wrote:
How about; this is a game I play for fun, and mashing buttons is not fun. Then the people you play against are very unlikely to be doing this. Why are you so sure? Requiring me to go crazy at every start of every game in order to gain an advantage is ridiculous. Most players do not dedicate their lives to SC2 mechanics, hopefully this will be patched. If you haven't dedicated your life to SC2 mechanics then why do you expect to win against someone who has? Starcraft2 skill relays on more than just mechanics Good, then skip this trick and focus on improving other parts instead and win by being better at those.
I do indeed improve other parts, regardless I think this is a bug that should be fixed.
On September 13 2010 06:55 frog HERO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:48 CooLMaN wrote:On September 13 2010 06:44 frog HERO wrote:On September 13 2010 06:43 CooLMaN wrote:On September 13 2010 06:38 Zurles wrote:On September 13 2010 06:32 CooLMaN wrote:
How about; this is a game I play for fun, and mashing buttons is not fun. Then the people you play against are very unlikely to be doing this. Why are you so sure? Requiring me to go crazy at every start of every game in order to gain an advantage is ridiculous. Most players do not dedicate their lives to SC2 mechanics, hopefully this will be patched. If you haven't dedicated your life to SC2 mechanics then why do you expect to win against someone who has? Starcraft2 skill relays on more than just mechanics Where did I claim it wasn't? Starcraft 2 skill is highly dependent on your decision making and strategy but equally (if not more so) dependent on your mechanics. If you want to play a game that relies only on your intellect and not on your keyboard/mouse skills then play Chess. Don't play SC2 and expect to be able to win without using your keyboard and your mouse as effectively as possible.
You are claiming again that SC2 is mostly about keyboard/mouse usage (aka as mechanics?)
I think using the keyboard and mouse is important, as in part of a battle to tactically manage your units better and gain an advantage doing so.
But mindlessly queuing workers at the start of the game to gain econ advantage, IMO is a bug.
btw. I do play chess
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On September 13 2010 07:18 shizi wrote:
I just tested this and I found out you dont even need to press/hold down c
all you have to do is shift click the minerals...
Correct
1. select worker not carrying minerals
2. shift right click on patch
Insane not to Patch this.
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Not to take away from the rest of the content in your post, but there's a metric ton of esport games that are more 'legitimate' than BW. Last time I checked Korea didn't represent the world as a whole.. and the world moved on from BW a long time ago.
Perspective.
Yes, and perspective, no Esport has ever garnered as much social impact, affluence, longevity, and popularity then SC1. While other Esports might have performed comparably well outside of Korea, SC1s performance inside of Korea was just such a phenomenal success, its such an outlier that it alone makes SC1 unarguably the most successful esport game.
Mining is automated so that you can play the game. Would Starcraft be a good game if you had to manually send every worker to and from a mineral patch? Of course it wouldn't. That's why mining is done for you.
Well, there are two elements of this. From an overall, broader perspective of game design, it would be a shit game. Because theres more to game design then Esports and competition. Automine makes the game more intuitive. It fulfills consumer expectations of what a game "should be like" in 2010.
However, at the same time, it does lower competitive depth and spectator value.
This mechanic fulfills both, but definitely at a lesser scale. Because it exists on a meta-game level, no consumer expectations are broken, while conferring extra benefits to people who choose to claim them, increasing competitive depth.
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On September 13 2010 07:22 Knickknack wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 07:18 shizi wrote:
I just tested this and I found out you dont even need to press/hold down c
all you have to do is shift click the minerals... Correct 1. select worker not carrying minerals 2. shift right click on patch Insane not to Patch this.
yeah, and you can even do it on a worker thats currently mining
much easier
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all you have to do is select a worker that is either
a) going towards the mineral patch or
b) currently mining the minerals
shift+C+right click the patch
rather than sitting with the mineral shard after gathering it, it will return it immediately
you can do this on 8+ drones if you're incredibly dexterous. I can do it for like 1-2 cycles then i start misclicking and forgetting to build drones
really hard
NOT WORTH IT
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What people have failed to realise is how little 7% mineral increase will effect the game they are playing. Just as all small tricks don't really have an effect until you use multiples of them. It is something you can see the pros do and know it has an effect, it is something you will never lose a game because of below the pro level due to the small difference it makes.
The complaint about it effecting different races differently is true, zerg can queue more workers faster and thus get more and more effect of this, getting a slight edge in usefulness over the other races. Still not large enough to matter in mid diamond or lower...
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On September 13 2010 07:19 Fantistic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 07:18 vyyye wrote:On September 13 2010 07:15 Fantistic wrote:On September 13 2010 07:07 Pandain wrote:On September 13 2010 07:04 iEchoic wrote:
People on this forum are apparently unable to realize that something can cause a game to take more skill and still be a bad game design decision. The typical argument so far is "this increases the skill cap, therefore it's a good addition". I have a list of some other things that would greatly increase the skill gap:
1) None of your units have any AI. Every time an SCV returns minerals, he sits at the CC, waiting for you to return him to mine
2) Whenever you want to create a unit, you must solve a partial differential equation first.
3) An on-screen keyboard prompts you to play Fur Elise while macroing
If any of these things were implemented, this game's skill cap would go through the roof. It would be the most skill-intensive game ever created. But guess what? It would blow.
High skill cap != good design. Yeah, but that game would be lame and too hard and no one would want to play it. Skill cap is good for a game, don't take it to the utmost extreme. Also, I didn't imagine this outcry about this. I thought people would love this. Hmm.... thread in the making. I want to remind people this is not a strategy, it is a macro trick. A lot of us do love this but, where there are supporters, there are there are always going opposition. Supporters being players who want to an extra advantage over their opponents. Opposers being players who are lazy and can't be bothered to implement a simple feature in order to get ahead or scared of having to put in more effort to be equal to their opponent. Casuals, this is SC2. It's already been noobified and made much easier than BW. If you want to relax then play CoD or FarmVille. This post is retarded. If a player doesn't want an APM sink but wants to spend more time doing more interesting stuff (managing your base, your army, scouting etc.) he's instantly a 'casual CoD/farmville' player? I don't care about this feature/bug personally, but jesus christ dude, are you for real? Some players will like having APM sinks, some players won't. Being one of the former or latter won't instantly make you a 100% casual player who's only able to play mindless FPS games. Really, it's true. My point: SC2 isn't a game for relaxation.
SC2 wasn't a game for relaxation yesterday either, when this feature was unknown.
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On September 13 2010 07:13 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Has anyone theorycrafting, besides the OP actually tried doing it with more then 2 workers?
After running through it 4-5 times, I managed to get a 10 Nexus (Adjacent to my starting nexus) at 1:45 cut down to...
A 10 Nexus at 1:44
At the 3:00 minute mark on faster, using only the starting 6 workers and nothing else, I came up to 780 minerals with no manual intervention after the 3-3 split, compared to 835 minerals using this trick. I had 100% uptime on the command queuing after the point I set up all 6 workers. Mind you this is just one test, you probably want to repeat it several times to minimize discrepancies from workers going to nearer/further mineral patches after the split - but it's enough to illustrate it, fits the 7% bill too.
I think we should all be glad that it's not too much of an advantage, about 50 minerals in this case. Can you imagine if the difference was 100 minerals? 200? At that point it would be mandatory, do it or lose, it might even open up previously impossible build orders (if it hasn't already) - and indeed some might argue that it already is mandatory, when you get to the point where such relatively small differences matter.
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Poll: Does this mechanic add to the game?No (276) 51% Yes (263) 49% 539 total votes Your vote: Does this mechanic add to the game? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
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EPT
