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On September 13 2010 07:42 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 07:36 Sylvr wrote:
To all the people calling this mindless and pointless and suggesting that other random stupid things could be substituted as a "trick", think about it this way:
Your workers are not as good at optimizing mining in the same way that your army is not as good at optimizing a battle. I think everyone can agree that a battle with your army in which you are manually arranging your position and picking what targets your units attack is more effective (if you're doing it right) than an Attack-Moved army.
Same principle. This is where it comes down to game design. Microing an army is 'fun'. Telling workers to come back to base 10 milliseconds faster is not 'fun'. There's a big difference there.
One could argue that NONE of the macro stuff is "fun". It all comes back to the "competitive" aspect of it. Strategy can only get you so far. Tactics can only get you so far. Precision can only get you so far. After these, we come to mechanics. People will master these aspects to varying degrees. The more of these you can do better than your opponent, the more you will win. Building workers isn't fun. Building Supply Depots/Pylons/Overlords isn't fun. Upgrading isn't fun. Anywhere you can't fit "fun", you try to substitute with "competitive".
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On September 13 2010 07:55 Redmark wrote:
I don't know what people think that competitive games are.
Yes, they are about winning - but they are also about wanting to win. There exist many activities which require more skill than Starcraft BW and Starcraft 2. This is an undeniable fact. Fucking flash games where you mash a button really fast require more skill than these games. So why? Why do you play Starcraft?
I thought I knew, but apparently I don't. I must be a casual gamer, guess I should play Farmville.
waaaat?
I don't think you're playing right dude :/
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On September 13 2010 07:55 Sylvr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 07:42 iEchoic wrote:On September 13 2010 07:36 Sylvr wrote:
To all the people calling this mindless and pointless and suggesting that other random stupid things could be substituted as a "trick", think about it this way:
Your workers are not as good at optimizing mining in the same way that your army is not as good at optimizing a battle. I think everyone can agree that a battle with your army in which you are manually arranging your position and picking what targets your units attack is more effective (if you're doing it right) than an Attack-Moved army.
Same principle. This is where it comes down to game design. Microing an army is 'fun'. Telling workers to come back to base 10 milliseconds faster is not 'fun'. There's a big difference there. One could argue that NONE of the macro stuff is "fun". It all comes back to the "competitive" aspect of it. Strategy can only get you so far. Tactics can only get you so far. Precision can only get you so far. After these, we come to mechanics. People will master these aspects to varying degrees. The more of these you can do better than your opponent, the more you will win. Building workers isn't fun. Building Supply Depots/Pylons/Overlords isn't fun. Upgrading isn't fun. Anywhere you can't fit "fun", you try to substitute with "competitive".
Building workers, supply depots and upgrades is fun, actually. Micro wouldn't be half as enjoyable if I didn't have to keep track of my base at the same time, nor would there be any satisfaction in getting a perfect build order down if there wasn't any macro to do.
This trick isn't very fun though, in my opinion.
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You know what's fun? Knowing that there is some mechanics I can choose to do that will give me a 35 mineral advantage over my opponent, even just for the psychological effect of knowing I have a leg up that early.
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On September 13 2010 06:58 mahnini wrote:
someone please name an BW mechanic that was similar to this other than splitting workers because i honestly can't think of one.
I said earlier in this thread that BW players often did the exact same thing as the OP said. Workers slow down when they are reaching a mineral so many gamers, would manually send their workers in front of the mineral and manually click the mineral so they didn't decelerate. If you watch jaedong's cheese's closely he often does this. For a banling from 2005 I'd have thought you'd known that.
It was never a big deal, and anyone D level could do it if they wanted to. Didn't make you win or lose a game very often, and was mostly just useful for 4pools since it was impossible to micro 12 workers simultaneously while scouting.
Seriously, this isn't as big a deal as you guys are making it out to be. Don't be like fox news please?
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Now that I can just rally my workers to minerals I have something else to do. Not something I'll be doing all game like telling workers to mine, but should be a nice little, non-game deciding, maneuver 
I'm surprised that people are complaining about this as much as they are. I don't mind if it's patched, but it's neat nonetheless. I wonder what these people would think about having to select each barracks manually, or having to send workers to mine yourself through the *whole* game, or selecting individual units to cast.
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On September 13 2010 07:27 Ryalnos wrote:Poll: Does this mechanic add to the game?No (276) 51% Yes (263) 49% 539 total votes Your vote: Does this mechanic add to the game? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
what is the purpose of this poll?
you make it look like, that blizzard intended something in the game, what actually is a bug/glitch/trick/or what ever you like to call it.
It's a rhetorical question you ask, of course it adds something to the game, but the question really is, do I really want to spend my time on this trick?
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United States4126 Posts
Couldn't this just be done more easily by selecting all your workers and spamming C constantly? It's not like there's anything else to do that early in the game.
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On September 13 2010 08:00 Mutaahh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 07:27 Ryalnos wrote:Poll: Does this mechanic add to the game?No (276) 51% Yes (263) 49% 539 total votes Your vote: Does this mechanic add to the game? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
what is the purpose of this poll? you make it look like, that blizzard intended something in the game, what actually is a bug/glitch/trick/or what ever you like to call it. It's a rhetorical question you ask, of course it adds something to the game, but the question really is, do I really want to spend my time on this trick?
Why not? You play the game right?
If you do not want an advantage, then by all means, dont spend ur time on it...you dont need someone else to tell u this, its common sense.
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On September 13 2010 07:13 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Has anyone theorycrafting, besides the OP actually tried doing it with more then 2 workers?
After running through it 4-5 times, I managed to get a 10 Nexus (Adjacent to my starting nexus) at 1:45 cut down to...
A 10 Nexus at 1:44
i just did a few practice games doing a zerg 6 pool with and without this trick. doing a perfect worker split without the trick i got the pool down at 41 seconds. With the trick i got it down to 39 seconds.
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On September 13 2010 06:58 mahnini wrote:
someone please name an BW mechanic that was similar to this other than splitting workers because i honestly can't think of one.
APM Dependent
Moving your larvae to the left of the hatchery.
Worker split/sending workers to the most efficient patches.
Microing your workers so you could time them to be on the fastest available patches.
Right-clicking a mineral patch (even if it isn't the intended one) with your new worker to have them float through the other returning ones so they didn't get caught on their way to the mineral patches.
AI pathing micro to avoid the deceleration speed of probes (described earlier in reference to a game Jangbi played.)
Rally point adjustment (not really APM intensive, but isn't one-time)
Non-APM Dependent/one-time
Building placement to correct pathing AI (Longinus example mentioned)
Building placement for better spawn location (Depot at the bottom-left when mins are on the right etc.)
Building placement to stop workers from wandering behind screwy mineral patches
That's all I can think of for now. They all have an impact on your rate of gathering resources. Obviously they weren't necessary at most levels, but the pros use them when necessary/beneficial because they are there. Hope that helps a bit.
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On September 13 2010 08:00 404.Delirium wrote:I'm surprised that people are complaining about this as much as they are. I don't mind if it's patched, but it's neat nonetheless. I wonder what these people would think about having to select each barracks manually, or having to send workers to mine yourself through the *whole* game, or selecting individual units to cast.
I'm fine with those mechanics. I don't love them, but I'm OK with it. What, you think only a fresh SC2 player would dislike this bug?
I played BW plenty. Telling your fresh worker to mine is NOTHING on this bug, since technically with perfect play you would be doing this ALL game with as many workers as you could, whenever you had any free time at all.
You never had to do that in bw, except in unlucky map spawns in poorly made maps that aren't used in tournaments anymore (for a reason!)
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Your workers are not as good at optimizing mining in the same way that your army is not as good at optimizing a battle. I think everyone can agree that a battle with your army in which you are manually arranging your position and picking what targets your units attack is more effective (if you're doing it right) than an Attack-Moved army.
Optimizing your army in a battle is interesting to do, and interesting to watch. Shift-clicking a mineral patch is... Neither.
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On September 13 2010 08:03 mrd33ds wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 08:00 Mutaahh wrote:On September 13 2010 07:27 Ryalnos wrote:Poll: Does this mechanic add to the game?No (276) 51% Yes (263) 49% 539 total votes Your vote: Does this mechanic add to the game? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
what is the purpose of this poll? you make it look like, that blizzard intended something in the game, what actually is a bug/glitch/trick/or what ever you like to call it. It's a rhetorical question you ask, of course it adds something to the game, but the question really is, do I really want to spend my time on this trick? Why not? You play the game right? If you do not want an advantage, then by all means, dont spend ur time on it...you dont need someone else to tell u this, its common sense.
Yes, that is what I said?
What do you mean with "why not"?
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Hm, I do not mind this.
Look at the top top top top top - ULTRA Pro-, I play mostly for money guys. They loose whole armees by bad decisions and often still manage to come back. One of whitra's voidrays mismicroed? 250 minerals 150 gas lost, not the end of the game.
Sure it is an advantage, but it will surely be a good laugh if July starts doing this, and create some incredible to watch fpvod, like 900apm over 30 minutes=27000actions, 22000 of them , telling workers to hurry the fuck up xD.
And lol @ all the people crying, if this becomes standart I gotta start doing this. No, you do not have to! I doubt early rushes will kill you, even with this, keep in mind the next patch gonna fix the most deadly stuff, so after the patch the cheeser will actually have to work^^ to be as efficent as he is now.
I really doubt we will see this having an effect in Ladder games, maybe in the GSL or other big tourneys it will become an important part of the game.
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I wonder if blizz intends to patch this or not.
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On September 13 2010 08:02 Kinky wrote:
Couldn't this just be done more easily by selecting all your workers and spamming C constantly? It's not like there's anything else to do that early in the game.
You're right.
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Interesting to try to get an edge when nothing happens elsewhere
Great find, I approve and the edge is not that big for people having a bit lower apm.
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On September 13 2010 08:00 Mutaahh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 07:27 Ryalnos wrote:Poll: Does this mechanic add to the game?No (276) 51% Yes (263) 49% 539 total votes Your vote: Does this mechanic add to the game? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
what is the purpose of this poll? you make it look like, that blizzard intended something in the game, what actually is a bug/glitch/trick/or what ever you like to call it. It's a rhetorical question you ask, of course it adds something to the game, but the question really is, do I really want to spend my time on this trick?
I think most were able to interpret the poll question as I meant it and I'm content enough with that.
In any case, it is almost certainly not a bug/glitch that there is this short pause in worker mining. It's more likely due to pathing AI calculating where to send the worker next or something along those lines.
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Never could be assed to spam at the start to warm up and increase hand speed. This gives me incentive to do so. Awesome.
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EPT
