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On September 06 2010 02:50 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 02:44 rasnj wrote:On September 06 2010 02:34 travis wrote:
If they want to address that there are too many people in their games that is not the way to go about it... What is then? I see three options: 1) Don't play in ESL tournaments 2) Just continue letting the ESL make your games laggy. 3) Break the rules, and perhaps spark a discussion that forces a change in policies. In other tournaments there is a fourth, optimal option: 4) Inform the tournament organizers of the problem and let them sort it out. However ESL have proven that they will not help resolve the problem (at least no prior to this incident). umm, how about not starting the next game with no caster without saying anything it's pretty simple really.. just refuse to play your next game with any more than just the official caster in the game.
On September 06 2010 02:53 DorN wrote:
5) Tell everyone except of Take to leave but thats too hard i guess
Morrow tried that approach last Wednesday and it didn't work. He asked people to leave because of lag and NO ONE responded or left. No ESL admin took any action whatsoever. He held up the game for about 10-15 min before seeing it was pointless and just played.
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Sigh this free for all casting shit needs to end. Stop having 400 commentators that are idiots and laggy just to get an extra 10 viewers.
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On September 06 2010 03:00 Pezo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 02:58 Topsecret wrote:On September 06 2010 02:57 Pezo wrote:On September 06 2010 02:55 Topsecret wrote:
I am watching the ESL stream right now and they have some moron Henningk streaming with some dumb woman. They both have no clue what the fuck is going on. Very important to have these people watching your game... But they have 1336 viewers that is the most important thing. Totalbiscuit seems be only person talking sense here tbh Am I right in saying that? I am totally disgusted right now listening to this garbage... Lol there casting isn't necessarily the best but its down to personal opinion. The most important thing is people are watching it. So it doesn't really matter what you think of the casting.
Just makes me laugh thinking that people were saying HDH did not have a good cast for MLG. The American casters are obviously leagues above the Euro ones.
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On September 06 2010 03:00 Hikari wrote:
why 14 casters? Ego (viewership)? Fame ("I get to cast this and you dont!")? Popularity contest?
2 streamers are enough. Figure it out among yourselves before the match starts so immature casters don't just delay the game for 1/2 an hour in th lobby who goes and who stays.
I hope the casters will learn to work together before the next tournament.
If you've ever watched them fight over staying in a match you'd know that will never happen. It's pretty pathetic to watch, I feel bad for the players. Casting is given priority over the game itself at this point, which is completely ridiculous.
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On September 06 2010 03:03 sircuddles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 03:00 Hikari wrote:
why 14 casters? Ego (viewership)? Fame ("I get to cast this and you dont!")? Popularity contest?
2 streamers are enough. Figure it out among yourselves before the match starts so immature casters don't just delay the game for 1/2 an hour in th lobby who goes and who stays.
I hope the casters will learn to work together before the next tournament. If you've ever watched them fight over staying in a match you'd know that will never happen. It's pretty pathetic to watch, I feel bad for the players. Casting is given priority over the game itself at this point, which is completely ridiculous.
Lol I wonder how much ad money is pulled it with that little static image all casters have to display. This just reeks of "money talks" it's not even funny. Even more so when players have no say on this.
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On September 06 2010 00:46 DonKey_ wrote:
....wow I'm sorry but this shit is retarded; to disallow a gamer from having a choice if he wants obs is retarded.
If this was the semifinals match or even the quarter finals i could see mandatory obs being expected, but not in like ro64 and such.
Edit: is it just me or do all the gamers seem to disallow BigT in their games o_o; IdrA did the same.
Its not just you, BigT is a douche is why.
Thats basically it, i believe this comes from him telling the tourneys host(guy who made the tourney obviously) they he couldnt obs in the finals or something for one of the games.
He's no BiggerT, BigT is just a dickhead
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Wait a minute?? Are the livecasts done with no delay??
Then the players can have the streams in the background and listening to the casters. Thats basicly as same as maphack.
Its better just to cast the replays or delaying the livecast for like few minutes.
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On September 06 2010 03:04 mav451 wrote:
Lol I wonder how much ad money is pulled it with that little static image all casters have to display. This just reeks of "money talks" it's not even funny. Even more so when players have no say on this.
Welcome to the only way ESPORTS is going to get anywhere. Yes, money talks. You can't be a professional Starcraft player if nobody is willing to pay you. You don't thinks sports teams just conjure their money out of thin air, do you?
Its better just to cast the replays or delaying the livecast for like few minutes.
People have been saying this for months but nobody has actually lifted a finger to create a practical tape-delay solution for people to use. I guess it's easier to complain than actually fix the problem.
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wow, sounds like ESL is ran by a bunch of idiots.
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On September 06 2010 03:06 Mastermind wrote:
wow, sounds like ESL is ran by a bunch of idiots.
True story.
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On September 06 2010 03:02 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 03:00 Pezo wrote:On September 06 2010 02:58 Topsecret wrote:On September 06 2010 02:57 Pezo wrote:On September 06 2010 02:55 Topsecret wrote:
I am watching the ESL stream right now and they have some moron Henningk streaming with some dumb woman. They both have no clue what the fuck is going on. Very important to have these people watching your game... But they have 1336 viewers that is the most important thing. Totalbiscuit seems be only person talking sense here tbh Am I right in saying that? I am totally disgusted right now listening to this garbage... Lol there casting isn't necessarily the best but its down to personal opinion. The most important thing is people are watching it. So it doesn't really matter what you think of the casting. Actually, what matters 10x more is the people watching ESL's actual stream and actual subscribers to their premium service. People who don't visit their site or support them but merely enjoy their product are largely irrelevant to the running of these tournaments.
I agree... i was talking about the quality of the casters tho. As i said, the fact they have that many viewers, shows that people are willing to watch it. Regardless of how good or bad people think they are.
Plus im pretty sure the Official ESl stream is done by Take and is in German.. So a lot of people can't watch it.
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On September 06 2010 03 SkelA wrote:
Wait a minute?? Are the livecasts done with no delay??
No they are not
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On September 06 2010 03:04 mav451 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 03:03 sircuddles wrote:On September 06 2010 03:00 Hikari wrote:
why 14 casters? Ego (viewership)? Fame ("I get to cast this and you dont!")? Popularity contest?
2 streamers are enough. Figure it out among yourselves before the match starts so immature casters don't just delay the game for 1/2 an hour in th lobby who goes and who stays.
I hope the casters will learn to work together before the next tournament. If you've ever watched them fight over staying in a match you'd know that will never happen. It's pretty pathetic to watch, I feel bad for the players. Casting is given priority over the game itself at this point, which is completely ridiculous. Lol I wonder how much ad money is pulled it with that little static image all casters have to display. This just reeks of "money talks" it's not even funny. Even more so when players have no say on this.
Then they don't have to play. If that's how they make money to eat and pay rent then they have to play by the rules, its not their money. Sure there may be some issues, but rules are rules and viewership is extremely important in any sport.
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I'm aware of that, but there is a disconnect when they are pushing 14 casters, again, for money. Why isn't there a compromise in terms of ad revenue and lag during a game? That's what I mean by money talks.
Lag vs. ad revenue? In this case, they chose ad revenue.
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On September 06 2010 03:07 DorN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 03 SkelA wrote:
Wait a minute?? Are the livecasts done with no delay??
No they are not
This is not entirely accurate. There is some delay, but nowhere near enough. I was able to generate 90 seconds of delay during the i40 stream using a huge data-rate window on the VP6 encoder, but I've not seen anyone able to top that yet. An external solution is required, whether it be a local buffer or a third-party server capable of buffering the video for several minutes before rebroadcasting it to Ustream.
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On September 06 2010 03:08 mav451 wrote:
I'm aware of that, but there is a disconnect when they are pushing 14 casters, again, for money. Why isn't there a compromise in terms of ad revenue and lag during a game? That's what I mean by money talks.
Lag vs. ad revenue? In this case, they chose ad revenue.
They made the money, the players got paid, and we watched right?
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On September 06 2010 02:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:
One last thing I might add, spectators will watch anything. I had 27,000 unique viewers over the course of 10 hours, casting games that ranged from bronze level to low diamond, WHILE THE MLG WAS STREAMING AT THE SAME TIME. The players are not as important as the fanbois make them out to be. You can cast literally anything, as long as you make it entertaining and people will still watch.
Then there should be no objection on the streamers' part to leaving Morrow's game and casting their own laddering, right? Or some random replays? Cool. Problem solved!
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On September 06 2010 03:07 AppleTart wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 03:04 mav451 wrote:On September 06 2010 03:03 sircuddles wrote:On September 06 2010 03:00 Hikari wrote:
why 14 casters? Ego (viewership)? Fame ("I get to cast this and you dont!")? Popularity contest?
2 streamers are enough. Figure it out among yourselves before the match starts so immature casters don't just delay the game for 1/2 an hour in th lobby who goes and who stays.
I hope the casters will learn to work together before the next tournament. If you've ever watched them fight over staying in a match you'd know that will never happen. It's pretty pathetic to watch, I feel bad for the players. Casting is given priority over the game itself at this point, which is completely ridiculous. Lol I wonder how much ad money is pulled it with that little static image all casters have to display. This just reeks of "money talks" it's not even funny. Even more so when players have no say on this. Then they don't have to play. If that's how they make money to eat and pay rent then they have to play by the rules, its not their money. Sure there may be some issues, but rules are rules and viewership is extremely important in any sport.
Sure casters is important, but more casters doesn't necessarily mean more viewers. You get more delays, lag, "bad" casters, low quality casting that makes people not watch and so on. If tournaments want to increase their viewership there is dozen of things you can do that don't involve allowing all and any caster to join a game.
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It is surprising the amount of serious tournaments that are still cast live. This was a problem in beta and will continue to be a legit problem as long as streams are live. Temptation to cheat, even if a little, is extremely high when it's so easy to do. There are streams staring you in the face.
edit #1: I'm looking at the IEM group stages being cast live now. Which leads to a very important tournament with a large prize pool being cast live.
edit #2: Especially when you consider the past of some of the people still left in this tournament. Obviously I'm accusing no one, but cheating has happened in the past. It's easier than ever with this and to think NOBODY is doing it would be delusional.
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On September 06 2010 03:10 Pyrthas wrote:
Then there should be no objection on the streamers' part to leaving Morrow's game and casting their own laddering, right? Or some random replays? Cool. Problem solved!
Not to blow my own trumpet here but not every caster is capable of making a bronze game entertaining. The point I was making is that placing too much importance on the players shows a lack of understand of how the relationship between broadcasters, sponsors, organisers and players works in a professional sports environment. The relationship must also exist if ESPORTS is to go anywhere in western markets. What this thread has demonstrated more than anything is that certain posters are more interested in hurling poorly thought-out vitriol at broadcasters, players and organisers, rather than figuring out what exactly went wrong and how best to ensure that such a disconnect between the three does not happen again in future.
Like I said before, you cannot have ESPORTS without all 4 of those people. You take one away from it and the whole thing falls apart.
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EPT
