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Morrow banned from EPS Nordic - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Pekkz
Profile Joined June 2009
Norway1505 Posts
September 05 2010 18:16 GMT
#241
They need to just keep as few observers as possible, theres no need to have 13 people in a game.
But ignoring the ESL tv request to cast his games is really disrespectful, and that screenshot from bigtv is really gonna hurt him

They need to create som rules that there can only be 2-3 streamers in a game, theres no need for more.
Effect010
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany89 Posts
September 05 2010 18:16 GMT
#242
ye saw it..he was worried about lag
"Keep stepping over dead bodys." - day9
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
September 05 2010 18:17 GMT
#243
On September 06 2010 03:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2010 03:07 DorN wrote:
On September 06 2010 03 SkelA wrote:
Wait a minute?? Are the livecasts done with no delay??



No they are not


This is not entirely accurate. There is some delay, but nowhere near enough. I was able to generate 90 seconds of delay during the i40 stream using a huge data-rate window on the VP6 encoder, but I've not seen anyone able to top that yet. An external solution is required, whether it be a local buffer or a third-party server capable of buffering the video for several minutes before rebroadcasting it to Ustream.

I think livestream streams are delayed by about 10~ or so seconds naturally(atleast when i stream they are around that
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
September 05 2010 18:18 GMT
#244
On September 06 2010 03:13 nam nam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2010 03:07 AppleTart wrote:
On September 06 2010 03:04 mav451 wrote:
On September 06 2010 03:03 sircuddles wrote:
On September 06 2010 03:00 Hikari wrote:
why 14 casters? Ego (viewership)? Fame ("I get to cast this and you dont!")? Popularity contest?

2 streamers are enough. Figure it out among yourselves before the match starts so immature casters don't just delay the game for 1/2 an hour in th lobby who goes and who stays.


I hope the casters will learn to work together before the next tournament.


If you've ever watched them fight over staying in a match you'd know that will never happen. It's pretty pathetic to watch, I feel bad for the players. Casting is given priority over the game itself at this point, which is completely ridiculous.


Lol I wonder how much ad money is pulled it with that little static image all casters have to display. This just reeks of "money talks" it's not even funny. Even more so when players have no say on this.


Then they don't have to play. If that's how they make money to eat and pay rent then they have to play by the rules, its not their money. Sure there may be some issues, but rules are rules and viewership is extremely important in any sport.


Sure casters is important, but more casters doesn't necessarily mean more viewers. You get more delays, lag, "bad" casters, low quality casting that makes people not watch and so on. If tournaments want to increase their viewership there is dozen of things you can do that don't involve allowing all and any caster to join a game.


Each caster was from a different place. If you include more different places, just that fact that you included them makes you money.
Look if you every want to see SC2 become what BW is in Korea, you have to make these sacrifices until you have a designated SC channel with booths, sponsored teams and all that stuff.

Also as a viewer, if you hate it, don't watch. As a player, if you hate it don't play.
Oh wait... regardless we will still watch and play even if we are posting this stuff.
always tired -_-
nGBeast
Profile Joined July 2010
United States914 Posts
September 05 2010 18:18 GMT
#245
Thats stupid, he should get a choice if he wants people in his game, wouldn't you be pissed if you lost a finals game because of lag? Cut the guy a break.
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
September 05 2010 18:18 GMT
#246
Should really only be 1 or 2 casters per tournament. Having 14(or whatever it was) people observe a game is asking for trouble. Casters should try and atleast find a different game to cast if it's not semi's or finals.

At the same time players need to realize that a lot of people want to see them play and not be jerks to the casters who provide the games to the hundreds of spectators.

ESL should probably pick 2 or 3 "Official" casters to cast their events rather than just let any random joe with procaster cast.
Life is Good.
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
September 05 2010 18:18 GMT
#247
On September 06 2010 03:17 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2010 03:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On September 06 2010 03:07 DorN wrote:
On September 06 2010 03 SkelA wrote:
Wait a minute?? Are the livecasts done with no delay??



No they are not


This is not entirely accurate. There is some delay, but nowhere near enough. I was able to generate 90 seconds of delay during the i40 stream using a huge data-rate window on the VP6 encoder, but I've not seen anyone able to top that yet. An external solution is required, whether it be a local buffer or a third-party server capable of buffering the video for several minutes before rebroadcasting it to Ustream.

I think livestream streams are delayed by about 10~ or so seconds naturally(atleast when i stream they are around that


Depends entirely on the stream/latency. Streams can be within seconds or by the end of a long cast be minutes behind.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
September 05 2010 18:18 GMT
#248
Should ban 'casters' and observers who lag games not the other way around.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-05 18:23:36
September 05 2010 18:20 GMT
#249
On September 06 2010 03:18 Pufftrees wrote:
Should ban 'casters' and observers who lag games not the other way around.


Players don't make the tournament money

Look, it's like a fast food restaurant.
The boss is the organizer, the players are the workers, and we are the customers.
Even if they decrease the quality of the food and the working conditions, the workers won't quit because they need the money to survive and the people will keep going because its just fat and greasy food. There will always be new customers, and a player would gladly take their spot if they leave. And people will still watch.
always tired -_-
DennyR
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany379 Posts
September 05 2010 18:21 GMT
#250
I agree with the most points, letting 20obs in a game is nuts, but refusing the official esl caster to join isnt better. Remember this was an official esl tournament and there is a rule - streamers are allowed. If you feel bad about obs or streamers, then kick everyone in the game except the official ones and there will be no lag and nobody will blame you for that.
But starting the game without streamers, even if they explain you the rules... well he deserves the ban.

See you in 2 weeks morrow.
lossofmercy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States29 Posts
September 05 2010 18:22 GMT
#251
I think Morrow's point is fair, and I don't think he regrets the ban. The point of him starting the game is to disagree with the rules of the ESL, so hopefully they think about what went wrong. This is the second person who has struck against the rules, I think it would be a bad move for ESL if more people come to the same conclusion.

14 spectators is a lot of lag, and will effect the performance on the game. If ESL wants to have a good quality product, part of the need is to make sure the player can perform adequately. Having horrendous lag due to unnecessary streamers takes away the product, even if it expands the watching population by 10%.
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
September 05 2010 18:23 GMT
#252
On September 06 2010 03:20 AppleTart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2010 03:18 Pufftrees wrote:
Should ban 'casters' and observers who lag games not the other way around.


Players don't make the tournament money


It was more of a joke, but those 10 + observers who aren't casting but just joining for no reason aren't making the tourney money.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
September 05 2010 18:23 GMT
#253
I guess Morrow deserves the ban for breaking the rules (sorry man, that's how it is :p), but ESL should notice now that something isn't going into the right direction here.

However, I blame Blizzard. It's actually fairly simple to implement observers in a way that completely eliminates lag for players. Essentially you just send the observers data and don't care whether they recieve it properly/in time or not. I have no idea why Blizzard didn't implement something like that. Lazy?
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
September 05 2010 18:23 GMT
#254
On September 06 2010 03:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2010 03:07 DorN wrote:
On September 06 2010 03 SkelA wrote:
Wait a minute?? Are the livecasts done with no delay??



No they are not


This is not entirely accurate. There is some delay, but nowhere near enough. I was able to generate 90 seconds of delay during the i40 stream using a huge data-rate window on the VP6 encoder, but I've not seen anyone able to top that yet. An external solution is required, whether it be a local buffer or a third-party server capable of buffering the video for several minutes before rebroadcasting it to Ustream.


Raelcun regularly has a 5+ minute delay.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-05 18:26:24
September 05 2010 18:24 GMT
#255
On September 06 2010 03:20 AppleTart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2010 03:18 Pufftrees wrote:
Should ban 'casters' and observers who lag games not the other way around.


Players don't make the tournament money


Again, there are some extreme views in this thread which don't have much basis in reality.

You need broadcasters, players, tournament organisers and sponsors, in order to make money from an ESPORTS tournament. Popular players bring in more views, but in order to get popular players, you need the money to attract them to it, which means you need sponsors. In order to have a good tournament, you need tournament organisers to get the sponsors in the first place and facilitate the tournament and then in order for those sponsors to get their money's worth, they need broadcasters to ensure that they have enough spectators seeing their product. You can't take any one of those away from the equation. Some people will watch a tournament because it's got a lot of money and promotion behind it, that's due to the sponsors. Some will watch due to the organisation that's backing it, who always has an established audience, that's the tournament organiser. Some people will watch it due to the people casting, because they too have established fanbases, that's their broadcasters and last but by no means least, some people will watch because their favourite player is playing.

Do not discount the importance of any of these things, nor try to squabble over who is more important than the other, because they are all necessary.

Raelcun regularly has a 5+ minute delay.


And I assume he has no problem sharing his secret with the community, right?

...right? Because he's certainly not doing that via traditional means and this has been a known problem since the start of beta, which nobody has come forward with a legitimate solution to.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
September 05 2010 18:24 GMT
#256
On September 06 2010 03:23 Pufftrees wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2010 03:20 AppleTart wrote:
On September 06 2010 03:18 Pufftrees wrote:
Should ban 'casters' and observers who lag games not the other way around.


Players don't make the tournament money


It was more of a joke, but those 10 + observers who aren't casting but just joining for no reason aren't making the tourney money.


Actually they do...
always tired -_-
vyyye
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden3917 Posts
September 05 2010 18:24 GMT
#257
On September 06 2010 03:23 spinesheath wrote:
I guess Morrow deserves the ban for breaking the rules (sorry man, that's how it is :p), but ESL should notice now that something isn't going into the right direction here.

However, I blame Blizzard. It's actually fairly simple to implement observers in a way that completely eliminates lag for players. Essentially you just send the observers data and don't care whether they recieve it properly/in time or not. I have no idea why Blizzard didn't implement something like that. Lazy?

Are you sure it's that simple? Really feels like there's got to be a reason for it being what it is, but then again.. they do make some questionable decisions. It has to be related to how Bnet works though, I mean.. They can't think having obs lag games adds anything to SC2.
mav451
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1596 Posts
September 05 2010 18:24 GMT
#258
On September 06 2010 03:23 spinesheath wrote:
I guess Morrow deserves the ban for breaking the rules (sorry man, that's how it is :p), but ESL should notice now that something isn't going into the right direction here.

However, I blame Blizzard. It's actually fairly simple to implement observers in a way that completely eliminates lag for players. Essentially you just send the observers data and don't care whether they recieve it properly/in time or not. I have no idea why Blizzard didn't implement something like that. Lazy?


Yeah if Blizz can figure this out, then the pro-caster camp will be able to get their 14+ casters no problem.
With no power comes no responsibility?
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-05 18:27:22
September 05 2010 18:26 GMT
#259
On September 06 2010 03:24 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2010 03:20 AppleTart wrote:
On September 06 2010 03:18 Pufftrees wrote:
Should ban 'casters' and observers who lag games not the other way around.


Players don't make the tournament money


Again, there are some extreme views in this thread which don't have much basis in reality.

You need broadcasters, players, tournament organisers and sponsors, in order to make money from an ESPORTS tournament. Popular players bring in more views, but in order to get popular players, you need the money to attract them to it, which means you need sponsors. In order to have a good tournament, you need tournament organisers to get the sponsors in the first place and facilitate the tournament and then in order for those sponsors to get their money's worth, they need broadcasters to ensure that they have enough spectators seeing their product. You can't take any one of those away from the equation. Some people will watch a tournament because it's got a lot of money and promotion behind it, that's due to the sponsors. Some will watch due to the organisation that's backing it, who always has an established audience, that's the tournament organiser. Some people will watch it due to the people casting, because they too have established fanbases, that's their broadcasters and last but by no means least, some people will watch because their favourite player is playing.

Do not discount the importance of any of these things, nor try to squabble over who is more important than the other, because they are all necessary.

Show nested quote +
Raelcun regularly has a 5+ minute delay.


And I assume he has no problem sharing his secret with other casters, right?

...right?


I promise you ESL will not lose ANY viewers in the weeks that MorroW is banned.
The irony is since MorroW didn't let anyone stream, they lost all viewers
always tired -_-
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
September 05 2010 18:27 GMT
#260
On September 06 2010 03:26 AppleTart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2010 03:24 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On September 06 2010 03:20 AppleTart wrote:
On September 06 2010 03:18 Pufftrees wrote:
Should ban 'casters' and observers who lag games not the other way around.


Players don't make the tournament money


Again, there are some extreme views in this thread which don't have much basis in reality.

You need broadcasters, players, tournament organisers and sponsors, in order to make money from an ESPORTS tournament. Popular players bring in more views, but in order to get popular players, you need the money to attract them to it, which means you need sponsors. In order to have a good tournament, you need tournament organisers to get the sponsors in the first place and facilitate the tournament and then in order for those sponsors to get their money's worth, they need broadcasters to ensure that they have enough spectators seeing their product. You can't take any one of those away from the equation. Some people will watch a tournament because it's got a lot of money and promotion behind it, that's due to the sponsors. Some will watch due to the organisation that's backing it, who always has an established audience, that's the tournament organiser. Some people will watch it due to the people casting, because they too have established fanbases, that's their broadcasters and last but by no means least, some people will watch because their favourite player is playing.

Do not discount the importance of any of these things, nor try to squabble over who is more important than the other, because they are all necessary.

Raelcun regularly has a 5+ minute delay.


And I assume he has no problem sharing his secret with other casters, right?

...right?


I promise you ESL will not lose ANY viewers in the weeks that MorroW is banned.


Sure they will, MorroW has a fanbase just like any other established player. Some will boycott due to his treatment, others just won't care enough to watch it because he's not playing. They're certainly not gaining any viewers by getting rid of him.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
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