EPT"Random" 2v2--how does this work? - Page 2
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
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Hikari
1914 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On August 27 2010 21:17 Doomgaze wrote: Uh being able to go into 2v2 with a good race combination as opposed to playing with a random combination, how is it not an advantage? That's just on top of having evolved team play, communiation and strategy. Random and AT needs to be separated, now. What is a good race combination? | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
Arranged team vs random team is inherently uneven, and unfair. It doesn't change anything if you have a 50% chance of winning. You could also make matchups be a coin toss for the players if you just adjusted the cost of all the units. Would that be fair, even if it resulted in a 50% chance of winning? I don't think so. | ||
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Vexx
United States462 Posts
Most random teams will not be using their microphones either so I'm not sure an argument can be made there about communication. Sure, they have the ability to. But most don't have their mic setup and there is definitely no time to do it in game. I obviously think the decision to match random and arranged teams is stupid. I think it removes the element of a fair playing field even if the matchmaking system does its best to rank players that have a 50% chance of winning. The biggest issue I have is psychological. Beating random teams silly is boring and abusive. Losing to arranged teams is frustrating. | ||
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AndyJay
Australia833 Posts
On August 27 2010 22:44 Vexx wrote:The biggest issue I have is psychological. Beating random teams silly is boring and abusive. Losing to arranged teams is frustrating. I think this is he problem. The matchmaking system should factor in the ability difference but really at the end of the day it feels pointless to play vs arranged teams. It leaves me with no motivation to continue with solo 2v2 after the 4th double proxy gateways in a row. It was fine in wc3, just like chat, clans and region select were fine in wc3. If it's not broken... FACEBOOK INTEGRATION. | ||
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Escape
Canada306 Posts
However, 2) It is fair because everyone else playing 2v2 ladder faces the same issue and imbalance. Therefore, 3) Overall, it shouldn't affect your ladder ranking. | ||
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Lucius2
Germany548 Posts
On August 27 2010 23:15 Escape wrote: However, 2) It is fair because everyone else playing 2v2 ladder faces the same issue and imbalance. Therefore, 3) Overall, it shouldn't affect your ladder ranking. sry, but these points are plain retarded. i couldnt care less for my ladder rank if i got fun and balanced matches.... | ||
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Esp1noza
Russian Federation481 Posts
On August 27 2010 20:50 KwarK wrote: If they're equally skilled then a premade team will obviously have an advantage over two random guys. If teams equally skilled then obviously their skill is equal. | ||
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bbulzibar
United States80 Posts
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Graven
United States314 Posts
Edit: ^^ The post above explains it perfectly, I'm just tired of writing out that answer, haha. | ||
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VonLego
United States519 Posts
On August 27 2010 20:34 Deadlyfish wrote: Because friends arent always online, or you dont have any friends that play sc2, but you'd still like to try 2v2? Wouldnt mind if i played against other people who also got paired randomly. AT teams usually just rush with 40 t1 units and you cant really do anything against that. Unfortunately there are no channels as of yet, but you can pick up some TL players to arrange team with any time you want. Can't be too hard -- find a few that are enjoyable to talk to and play with and stick with them. Play with their friends, etc. | ||
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Escape
Canada306 Posts
On August 27 2010 23:23 Lucius2 wrote: sry, but these points are plain retarded. i couldnt care less for my ladder rank if i got fun and balanced matches.... I guess you should play custom 2v2 games then. you big silly. | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
On August 28 2010 01:04 bbulzibar wrote: Think about it this way. Me and my partner are gold level players. Because we are an AT, we effectively play at a Platinum level (because of we have good teamwork). Now, really, we don't deserve to be there, but since we are an AT we have an 'advantage'. Therefore, we are placed and now playing in a platinum division, getting placed against RT platinum folks. These people may be a RT, but since their level of play is so much higher, they are still effectively Platinum Level, while we are effectively Platinum level as well. Therefore, it is a very competitive match-up, and balanced. No it isn't. You're going into this with the advantage of: 1) Picking your partner and 2) Potentially deciding on very specific strategies against various matchups. RT vs AT is never fair, even if it results in a 50% win rate. One side has access to tools that the other side does not. FAIR means both sides are subject to exactly the same rules, which is not the case here. How about this, you're a gold level player right? Why not face off against me but make all my units move 20% slower. Would that be "fair" if it results in a 50% win rate? No, of course not. It's not just about win rate, it's about both sides going into a match with the same set of rules! | ||
looknohands119
United States815 Posts
So in conclusion, either stop bitching and whining (especially in a way that misleads others about the quality of Blizzard's product) and grow a pair or don't play group randoms. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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DarkSeerTurbo
United States105 Posts
Bob and Susie are friends. They both have 10 wins 10 losses. They played all 20 games together, but without ventrillo or a mic. On their 21st game they get mics and vent. Coordination is further increased. Peter and Jerry have never met each other and don't know each other. They both have 10 wins 10 losses and are an RT team on their 21st matchup against Bob and Susie. B.net pairs them up. The teams are even, on paper, but in essence they are not. Familiarity and coordination are not factored into the matchmaking. Saying that the match is even just because B.net pairs you up from your past record is ignorant thinking. Also, the post saying to just "grow a pair" is probably the dumbest post in this thread. If Blizzard advertises 2v2 RANDOM, then it should be random. All the features are already in place to make it work on B.net. B.net logs, for example, all the games you have played with friends (think placement). If you have played more than 1 game with someone, you should not be able to enter a RANDOM game with them. Simple concept. | ||
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gauauu
United States47 Posts
On August 28 2010 04:35 DarkSeerTurbo wrote: Familiarity and coordination are not factored into the matchmaking. Ah, but they are, and that's what people have been trying to say. Because it's all about wins, if If Bob and Susie have approximately the same MMR as Peter and Jerry, but have an advantage, then their MMR takes that advantage into account. Ok, a ridiculously contrived example: Let's say someone has only 1 arm. That's a big disadvantage. Let's say they are really good at SC, but their apm is low because of the 1 arm. Now let's say they make it into platinum. They shouldn't then whine that 2 armed people have an advantage in platinum over them -- the system doesn't care whether you have 1 arm or 2, it only cares how well you've played. Platinum 2 armed people play as well as our 1-armed friend. If our friend had 2 arms, he'd probably be high diamond. "Fair?" who cares -- life isn't fair. This is about playing opponents who will be closely matched with you. And that will occur in this scenario. It's the same way in our 2v2s. Who cares if it isn't "fair"...I care about playing a closely matched game. I don't care what supposed advantages/disadvantages they have, I just care about whether it will be a good game. | ||
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Pking
Sweden142 Posts
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Kralic
Canada2628 Posts
What would you be complaining about if you played other random teams but the queue time was 5+ minutes between games? Keep it the same is my opinion. | ||
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