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"Random" 2v2--how does this work?

Forum Index > SC2 General
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DarkSeerTurbo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States105 Posts
August 26 2010 06:55 GMT
#1
Hey guys so out of nowhere I decide to play random 2v2 league matches. My last 3 random 2v2 games were losses. After the game was over I checked out the players profiles and turns out the 2 players knew each other, which was disappointing since, I thought this was supposed to be RANDOM. How are people getting away with this and what can I do to avoid arranged teams?

Thanks for reading.
theonlyrio
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom200 Posts
August 26 2010 06:56 GMT
#2
blizzzard was silly enough to allow stuff like this to happen and you cant really do anything to stop it sorry =/.

I am the only rio
leve15
Profile Joined August 2010
United States301 Posts
August 26 2010 06:57 GMT
#3
I play mostly random 2v2s, and running into arranged teams is unfortunately quite common. (I've met a few just running into them from my BW days since we kept the same or similar names)

I heard they were going to fix this...
Vz0
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada378 Posts
August 26 2010 06:59 GMT
#4
er why does this matter?
it still 2v2....
Zevah
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Argentina187 Posts
August 26 2010 07:06 GMT
#5
On August 26 2010 15:59 Vz0 wrote:
er why does this matter?
it still 2v2....


What he said!.

Premades have an advantage, they can speak with each-other and bla bla bla.. .but it's not like they start with 10 workers while you start with 6.... and you should be able to communicate with your partner too...

The problem for me is when i get a bronze player or someone who is trying new races or builds as a team-mate and they don't care if they win or lose while i'm really trying to win xD


but there is nothing you can do to prevent this besides getting a premade team yourself.
Essentia
Profile Joined July 2010
1150 Posts
August 26 2010 07:13 GMT
#6
Seriously how can you say it's not an advantage for the AT team? The fact that they talk to each other is an advantage! Sometimes my RT team mate won't even talk to me, so we cannot even coordinate attacks.

LITERALLY 90 percent of my 2v2 RT matchups are versus an AT team.
peterius
Profile Joined May 2010
33 Posts
August 27 2010 08:28 GMT
#7
Not just this. You can also find sometimes that you'll get a 2v2 random game and there's like a diamond and a bronze and two people unranked doing their placement matches. Its like they put no thought at all into their "unrivaled AutoMatch technology". << from the box.
dagene
Profile Joined June 2010
United States75 Posts
August 27 2010 08:37 GMT
#8
sometimes those are the only players available..
Cytokinesis
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada330 Posts
August 27 2010 08:37 GMT
#9
The game has built in voice-chat and it works very well for RT's. Just press tilde and use your mic as if you were on vent or skype or whatever.
Ive seen people who dont believe in sleep count sheep with calculators that double as alarm clocks
10or10
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Sweden517 Posts
August 27 2010 08:39 GMT
#10
On August 27 2010 17:28 peterius wrote:
Not just this. You can also find sometimes that you'll get a 2v2 random game and there's like a diamond and a bronze and two people unranked doing their placement matches. Its like they put no thought at all into their "unrivaled AutoMatch technology". << from the box.

Their AutoMatch technology is probably best suited for 1v1.

I had always assumed they used separate ladders for random and arranged teams (until we met a random team a couple of days ago) since my arranged team gets placed as a team, but how does that work for you random players? The random players must have individual ladder placements, right?
|| @10or10 || 이영호 이제동 - 화이팅 ^^ ||
Esp1noza
Profile Joined September 2003
Russian Federation481 Posts
August 27 2010 10:14 GMT
#11
If system says teams are even and your team is RT and their is AT, teams are still even all thing considered. At least thats what I think.
BroodWar forever
Error Ash
Profile Joined July 2008
Germany177 Posts
August 27 2010 10:34 GMT
#12
This may sound cocky... but just don't play alone? I really don't unterstand why people play team games, don't communicate with their team members but rather play for themselves and then they complain when they lose (this is not necessarily directed at OP, have seen this sooooo many times also in other games)... Just grab some friends... It's much more fun anyways.
Deadlyfish
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark1980 Posts
August 27 2010 11:34 GMT
#13
On August 27 2010 19:34 Error Ash wrote:
This may sound cocky... but just don't play alone? I really don't unterstand why people play team games, don't communicate with their team members but rather play for themselves and then they complain when they lose (this is not necessarily directed at OP, have seen this sooooo many times also in other games)... Just grab some friends... It's much more fun anyways.



Because friends arent always online, or you dont have any friends that play sc2, but you'd still like to try 2v2?

Wouldnt mind if i played against other people who also got paired randomly. AT teams usually just rush with 40 t1 units and you cant really do anything against that.
If wishes were horses we'd be eating steak right now.
Dakota_Fanning *
Profile Joined January 2008
Hungary2347 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 11:45:55
August 27 2010 11:45 GMT
#14
AT has an advantage over RT, yes, but they are scored in different leagues or divisions.

Just think of it this way: even if they win, they don't win points over an RT, because they are in a different league/division.

All RT team players are in the same shoes, and all AT team players are in the same shoes.

What matters is that you're not the only RT player who plays occasionally versus AT but all RT players. And your points are compared to the points of other RT players. The AT team might have an advantage and might win more games, but they are also compared to only other AT teams and not to RT teams.
https://repmastered.icza.net
Tommylew
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Wales2717 Posts
August 27 2010 11:47 GMT
#15
Yeh i got to diamond and now every team I face is AT teams, gone from like 26-13 to 28-20 so quickly lol, have been playing as other races thoughtoo which hasnt helped!! May quite RT for a while and focus on Solo!! Or try make friends to play AT with!!!!!!
Live and Let Die!
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42455 Posts
August 27 2010 11:50 GMT
#16
If they're equally skilled then a premade team will obviously have an advantage over two random guys. But this is a ladder with matchmaking, your opponent will not be selected by a magical assessment of objective skill but rather on the basis of his results. Why does it matter if you're matched against two scrubs on skype or two better players with worse teamwork if according to the AMM you're equally likely to beat either.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
DarkSeerTurbo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States105 Posts
August 27 2010 11:59 GMT
#17
On August 27 2010 19:34 Error Ash wrote:
This may sound cocky... but just don't play alone? I really don't unterstand why people play team games, don't communicate with their team members but rather play for themselves and then they complain when they lose (this is not necessarily directed at OP, have seen this sooooo many times also in other games)... Just grab some friends... It's much more fun anyways.


I do play team games with friends in real life. Your point, however, is a bit meaningless (no offense) as there are plenty of reasons why you cannot play with your real friends all the time. Just on top of my head... (can't believe I would even have to mention this as they're common sense)

1. Your friends are not online and you do not feel like playing 1v1
2. Your friends are not at your level and you lose against players you know you can beat
3. You want to play with other people and play as advertised: Random

etc.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
August 27 2010 12:06 GMT
#18
It doesn't really matter.
1) As long as your AMM rating is equall you have an even fight.
2) Arranged teams have an edge if it comes to rating because they can improve not only in mechanics, macro, micro but in cooperation as well. But they are not in the ladder for random 2v2's, they have their separate ladder.

That said I usually feal like me and my partner are usually better at mechanics than our fixed opponents, but they have usually better coordinated early strategies. Once the game passes 10 minutes mark without damage being done we usually have an advantage.
Doomgaze
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden89 Posts
August 27 2010 12:17 GMT
#19
Uh being able to go into 2v2 with a good race combination as opposed to playing with a random combination, how is it not an advantage?

That's just on top of having evolved team play, communiation and strategy.

Random and AT needs to be separated, now.
Lucius2
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany548 Posts
August 27 2010 12:18 GMT
#20
95% of all my 2v2,3v3 and 4v4 games are vs random, impossible to win 3v3 and 4v4 basically
junemermaid
Profile Joined September 2006
United States981 Posts
August 27 2010 12:19 GMT
#21
i love running into arranged teams and steam rolling them. there is nothing really more satisfying.
the UMP says YER OUT
Hikari
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
1914 Posts
August 27 2010 12:30 GMT
#22
When you play with your friend you two know each other's play style, complement each other, and you can rely on each other to not do anything too stupid. Well coordinated timing push can easily win the game.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
August 27 2010 12:42 GMT
#23
On August 27 2010 21:17 Doomgaze wrote:
Uh being able to go into 2v2 with a good race combination as opposed to playing with a random combination, how is it not an advantage?

That's just on top of having evolved team play, communiation and strategy.

Random and AT needs to be separated, now.

What is a good race combination?
ltortoise
Profile Joined August 2010
633 Posts
August 27 2010 13:02 GMT
#24
Meh.

Arranged team vs random team is inherently uneven, and unfair. It doesn't change anything if you have a 50% chance of winning. You could also make matchups be a coin toss for the players if you just adjusted the cost of all the units. Would that be fair, even if it resulted in a 50% chance of winning? I don't think so.
Vexx
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States462 Posts
August 27 2010 13:44 GMT
#25
Just wanted to add that 2v2 teams that have played more than 20 games together also get a feel for how each other play. There's better "silent" communication once you learn how your partner plays. You know when to rally up, you know when he needs help and you know when you're best off counter attacking and what he's capable of.

Most random teams will not be using their microphones either so I'm not sure an argument can be made there about communication. Sure, they have the ability to. But most don't have their mic setup and there is definitely no time to do it in game.

I obviously think the decision to match random and arranged teams is stupid. I think it removes the element of a fair playing field even if the matchmaking system does its best to rank players that have a 50% chance of winning. The biggest issue I have is psychological. Beating random teams silly is boring and abusive. Losing to arranged teams is frustrating.
I am not nice.
AndyJay
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Australia833 Posts
August 27 2010 14:14 GMT
#26
On August 27 2010 22:44 Vexx wrote:The biggest issue I have is psychological. Beating random teams silly is boring and abusive. Losing to arranged teams is frustrating.


I think this is he problem. The matchmaking system should factor in the ability difference but really at the end of the day it feels pointless to play vs arranged teams. It leaves me with no motivation to continue with solo 2v2 after the 4th double proxy gateways in a row. It was fine in wc3, just like chat, clans and region select were fine in wc3. If it's not broken... FACEBOOK INTEGRATION.
Escape
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada306 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 14:15:40
August 27 2010 14:15 GMT
#27
1) Yes, I think this is an unfair advantage for the AT for that match.

However,
2) It is fair because everyone else playing 2v2 ladder faces the same issue and imbalance.

Therefore,
3) Overall, it shouldn't affect your ladder ranking.
Lucius2
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany548 Posts
August 27 2010 14:23 GMT
#28
On August 27 2010 23:15 Escape wrote:
However,
2) It is fair because everyone else playing 2v2 ladder faces the same issue and imbalance.

Therefore,
3) Overall, it shouldn't affect your ladder ranking.


sry, but these points are plain retarded. i couldnt care less for my ladder rank if i got fun and balanced matches....
Esp1noza
Profile Joined September 2003
Russian Federation481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 14:28:03
August 27 2010 14:25 GMT
#29
On August 27 2010 20:50 KwarK wrote:
If they're equally skilled then a premade team will obviously have an advantage over two random guys.

If teams equally skilled then obviously their skill is equal.
BroodWar forever
bbulzibar
Profile Joined June 2010
United States80 Posts
August 27 2010 16:04 GMT
#30
Think about it this way. Me and my partner are gold level players. Because we are an AT, we effectively play at a Platinum level (because of we have good teamwork). Now, really, we don't deserve to be there, but since we are an AT we have an 'advantage'. Therefore, we are placed and now playing in a platinum division, getting placed against RT platinum folks. These people may be a RT, but since their level of play is so much higher, they are still effectively Platinum Level, while we are effectively Platinum level as well. Therefore, it is a very competitive match-up, and balanced.
Graven
Profile Joined June 2010
United States314 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 16:19:39
August 27 2010 16:18 GMT
#31
It's irrelivant if the team you face is RT or AT. Every team is based on a point system. Mixing the two would only be an issue if Blizzard only choose equally skilled people, but in the current case, the AT should be weaker players, allowing teir communication to make up for their lesser skill.

Edit: ^^ The post above explains it perfectly, I'm just tired of writing out that answer, haha.
VonLego
Profile Joined June 2010
United States519 Posts
August 27 2010 16:24 GMT
#32
On August 27 2010 20:34 Deadlyfish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2010 19:34 Error Ash wrote:
This may sound cocky... but just don't play alone? I really don't unterstand why people play team games, don't communicate with their team members but rather play for themselves and then they complain when they lose (this is not necessarily directed at OP, have seen this sooooo many times also in other games)... Just grab some friends... It's much more fun anyways.



Because friends arent always online, or you dont have any friends that play sc2, but you'd still like to try 2v2?

Wouldnt mind if i played against other people who also got paired randomly. AT teams usually just rush with 40 t1 units and you cant really do anything against that.


Unfortunately there are no channels as of yet, but you can pick up some TL players to arrange team with any time you want. Can't be too hard -- find a few that are enjoyable to talk to and play with and stick with them. Play with their friends, etc.
Escape
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada306 Posts
August 27 2010 16:34 GMT
#33
On August 27 2010 23:23 Lucius2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2010 23:15 Escape wrote:
However,
2) It is fair because everyone else playing 2v2 ladder faces the same issue and imbalance.

Therefore,
3) Overall, it shouldn't affect your ladder ranking.


sry, but these points are plain retarded. i couldnt care less for my ladder rank if i got fun and balanced matches....


I guess you should play custom 2v2 games then. you big silly.
ltortoise
Profile Joined August 2010
633 Posts
August 27 2010 17:07 GMT
#34
On August 28 2010 01:04 bbulzibar wrote:
Think about it this way. Me and my partner are gold level players. Because we are an AT, we effectively play at a Platinum level (because of we have good teamwork). Now, really, we don't deserve to be there, but since we are an AT we have an 'advantage'. Therefore, we are placed and now playing in a platinum division, getting placed against RT platinum folks. These people may be a RT, but since their level of play is so much higher, they are still effectively Platinum Level, while we are effectively Platinum level as well. Therefore, it is a very competitive match-up, and balanced.



No it isn't.

You're going into this with the advantage of:

1) Picking your partner

and 2) Potentially deciding on very specific strategies against various matchups.

RT vs AT is never fair, even if it results in a 50% win rate. One side has access to tools that the other side does not. FAIR means both sides are subject to exactly the same rules, which is not the case here.

How about this, you're a gold level player right? Why not face off against me but make all my units move 20% slower. Would that be "fair" if it results in a 50% win rate? No, of course not. It's not just about win rate, it's about both sides going into a match with the same set of rules!
looknohands119
Profile Joined March 2010
United States815 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 17:27:38
August 27 2010 17:23 GMT
#35
Okay... Let's put this in perspective because the fact that this discussion is even happening is wrong. First, you need to understand that if you are playing random anything (2v2's, 3v3's, 4v4's) its supposed to be a crapshoot. That's the idea of random. That should be enough by itself to deal with most of the whining here. However, lets dig a little a deeper and think this through logically. When you are doing placement matches the software is meant to place you in each league independently, which is almost inarguably a REALLY good thing. Therefore, all the matching program has to work off of are past games played in your league which, if you are doing placements, are only your previous placement matches. It only takes 3 wins right now to place into silver in 1v1 most of the time. However, someone who ultimately ends up in platinum is also very likely to win their first two matches. It is entirely possible that because both of these players had won their first two matches that they would hit each other. Obviously the game wouldn't be a fair fight. Same goes for placements in random 2v2's. Sometimes, you even hit a player who has already finished their placement matches and is a division higher than the division you will end up in as one of your placements in 1v1. Third, what you're saying just means that to be a platinum level player in random 2v2's means that you have the skill required to play other random teams with a bronze level player and still win. Or that you can beat two people who are working together well because they know each other using only a partner you just met. Random placements mean something different than regular placements... big deal. Get used to it. Stop whining about their matchmaking software, which by the way is pretty excellent as evidenced by the relatively large number of people with perfectly or almost perfectly even win/loss records (meaning of course that they are most likely (and I say most likely because its technically possible, though very unlikely, that they are hitting players who are way above them and way below them in skill in relatively equal amounts) hitting people who are almost always at either exactly or very close to their own skill level). Fourth, even if you still don't think the matching software is good because you think that their should be different algorithm's used for random match-ups than for regular 2v2's etc... Blizzard never advertises anything that even remotely suggests that there is different software being used so you can't say you feel cheated because of that. Fifth and finally, even 3v3's and 4v4's are way too full of cheeses and rushes to be taken seriously or to have the matches be dependent upon skill anyways.

So in conclusion, either stop bitching and whining (especially in a way that misleads others about the quality of Blizzard's product) and grow a pair or don't play group randoms.
"The kingdom of the heavens is buried treasure. Would you sell yourself to buy the one you've found?" - Jon Foreman ('Your Love Is Strong' - Spring EP)
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
August 27 2010 18:35 GMT
#36
What's the difference in facing 6 pool+6 rax or 6 pool+proxy gates or proxy gates+6 rax from a at or rt?That's pretty much around 60% of 2v2 anyway.And honestly just saying "hey I'm going this" then other guy replying "I'm going that" is like almost all you need to get high rating in diamond even.Not to mention that most AT don't even talk....
DarkSeerTurbo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States105 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 19:38:51
August 27 2010 19:35 GMT
#37
To say that AT vs RT is even, just because the matchmaking pairs you up is straight foolishness. Even if all members of Team A have 50% W/L and all members of Team B have 50% W/L, the team with better communication (ie the one that is arranged) will have the advantage in the AT vs RT matchup. In B.net's eyes, the teams are equal. Common sense dictates that it is not. An example, for those who cannot fathom such a simple idea:

Bob and Susie are friends. They both have 10 wins 10 losses. They played all 20 games together, but without ventrillo or a mic. On their 21st game they get mics and vent. Coordination is further increased.

Peter and Jerry have never met each other and don't know each other. They both have 10 wins 10 losses and are an RT team on their 21st matchup against Bob and Susie.

B.net pairs them up. The teams are even, on paper, but in essence they are not. Familiarity and coordination are not factored into the matchmaking. Saying that the match is even just because B.net pairs you up from your past record is ignorant thinking.

Also, the post saying to just "grow a pair" is probably the dumbest post in this thread. If Blizzard advertises 2v2 RANDOM, then it should be random. All the features are already in place to make it work on B.net. B.net logs, for example, all the games you have played with friends (think placement). If you have played more than 1 game with someone, you should not be able to enter a RANDOM game with them. Simple concept.
gauauu
Profile Joined May 2010
United States47 Posts
August 27 2010 19:58 GMT
#38
On August 28 2010 04:35 DarkSeerTurbo wrote:
Familiarity and coordination are not factored into the matchmaking.


Ah, but they are, and that's what people have been trying to say. Because it's all about wins, if If Bob and Susie have approximately the same MMR as Peter and Jerry, but have an advantage, then their MMR takes that advantage into account.

Ok, a ridiculously contrived example: Let's say someone has only 1 arm. That's a big disadvantage. Let's say they are really good at SC, but their apm is low because of the 1 arm. Now let's say they make it into platinum. They shouldn't then whine that 2 armed people have an advantage in platinum over them -- the system doesn't care whether you have 1 arm or 2, it only cares how well you've played. Platinum 2 armed people play as well as our 1-armed friend. If our friend had 2 arms, he'd probably be high diamond. "Fair?" who cares -- life isn't fair. This is about playing opponents who will be closely matched with you. And that will occur in this scenario.

It's the same way in our 2v2s. Who cares if it isn't "fair"...I care about playing a closely matched game. I don't care what supposed advantages/disadvantages they have, I just care about whether it will be a good game.


Pking
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden142 Posts
August 27 2010 21:06 GMT
#39
What if 2 player knows eachother that wants to play a 3v3 or 4v4, should the matchmaking system try to find teams where similar amount of players know eachother? Seeing as it usually takes 3+ minutes to find 3v3/4v4 matches today, that would narrow down potential players/teams even more and make the waiting even longer. IMO if you play in a random team you should expect to be at a disadvantage... just see it as a challange.
Kralic
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2628 Posts
August 27 2010 21:13 GMT
#40
This is a slight issue, but whatever everyone you are laddering against in your league/division has to go through the same hoops as you. I hope they keep it this way for when I am bored and deciding to do random team games that my queue time is kept to a mininum.

What would you be complaining about if you played other random teams but the queue time was 5+ minutes between games?

Keep it the same is my opinion.
Brood War forever!
InTriX
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom149 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 21:42:21
August 27 2010 21:41 GMT
#41
The thing I can't stand with XvX random is that in diamond random, I get paired with someone from silver against a diamond arranged team. Don't see why thats happening...

Edit should say sometimes they are gold.
Life is Not worth Dying for.
soverRR
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden348 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 23:03:31
August 27 2010 23:01 GMT
#42
This is one of the things that have bothered me since I realized it was possible to match up as RT against AT and vice versa. It makes team league wins so much harder to farm when your friends are offline, and when you go to play AT you end up with a bunch of really unsatisfying games because steamrolling a Random Team with the friends you've played Wc3 with for several years just feels like cheating.

AT vs RT just isn't fun, no matter which side you're on, for the simple fact that it isn't fair. A team knowing each other's playstyle and being able to coordinate their gameplay is just so much more powerful than meeting up with a random player - who maybe doesn't communicate at all - that there's really no logic in making them use the same gamesearching pool.
Lucius2
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany548 Posts
August 27 2010 23:41 GMT
#43
On August 28 2010 06:13 Kralic wrote:
This is a slight issue, but whatever everyone you are laddering against in your league/division has to go through the same hoops as you. I hope they keep it this way for when I am bored and deciding to do random team games that my queue time is kept to a mininum.

What would you be complaining about if you played other random teams but the queue time was 5+ minutes between games?

Keep it the same is my opinion.



so then why are my waiting times for 2v2 like 5 mins and 3v3 and 4v4 like 8-10+ mins (all high diamond)? only to get roflstomped by teams?

Jaug
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden249 Posts
August 27 2010 23:52 GMT
#44
RT vs AT is really ridiculous. Someone posted that 4v4 ATs (all divs) had about 68% wins, while random 4v4 players had average 45% wins. Obviously a big error in matchmaking if the point is to have somewhat even matchups. I've actually been matched in 4v4 vs a 35-5 AT team, such a team should never be matched against RT.
excess
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany24 Posts
August 28 2010 00:50 GMT
#45
this crazy ratios like 35/5 r not realy good if 30 wins r against much weaker oponent. u get lesser points for this wins and someone with ratio of 35/20 can be much higher than u with ur awsome 35/5.

and if u go further in this "fairness" rules, then u can say: its unfair to let someone play against older oponent, because older one has more experience from other rtsgames. he can use this experience and the younger cant. or one has better hardware, better eyes, good weather and so on. its just stupid at some point.

its just impossible to make it 100% even. therefore there is a system wich rates this wins and loses dependend on how uneven this match was.

i have no problem with loosing 2 points to AT, but im happy to win 30 points from this AT.
even with ratio of 1/10 my only one win is worth 30 points and 10 looses r worth 20 points so im at 30/20.
non-purchasable
Zegu
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada52 Posts
August 28 2010 04:32 GMT
#46
On August 26 2010 15:55 DarkSeerTurbo wrote:
Hey guys so out of nowhere I decide to play random 2v2 league matches. My last 3 random 2v2 games were losses. After the game was over I checked out the players profiles and turns out the 2 players knew each other, which was disappointing since, I thought this was supposed to be RANDOM. How are people getting away with this and what can I do to avoid arranged teams?

Thanks for reading.


RT play AT in multiplayer games, however they are not on the same ladder
Carthage
Profile Joined May 2010
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 05:31:50
August 28 2010 05:29 GMT
#47
My last 5 or 6 4v4 games have been against arranged teams with allies who passionately argue that canons into void rays is a perfectly good strategy and other such nonsense. The worst part is, these are considered "even" matches.

Team games are dead to me, I can't play silly because there is hardly any time to do anything neat, and I can't play seriously because my allies don't understand even the base fundamentals of the game.

1v1 is just stressful and also not fun at all.

With team games being awful, and 1v1 being awful, I have nothing left that's fun in SC2 :\
nextstep
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada705 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 05:34:02
August 28 2010 05:30 GMT
#48
i don't know about you guys, but i don't mind playing AT as RT.

you're not supposed to win every game.

thanks to blizzard's match making system, with my arranged team, i win 50%, with RT i win 50%.
in the end, it's the same result.

and plus, i'd rather play vs an AT of slightly lower skill level, than a RT of higher skill level.
i lose more to diamond+diamond randoms, than plat+plat (or even plat+diamond) arranged.

----

and the aspect about you getting a "newer player" as a partner. i find i for every one of those, i get a pro the next game. so like i said, it balances out.
go KHAN! TBLS <3
DarkSeerTurbo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States105 Posts
August 28 2010 05:46 GMT
#49
On August 28 2010 04:58 gauauu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 04:35 DarkSeerTurbo wrote:
Familiarity and coordination are not factored into the matchmaking.


Ah, but they are, and that's what people have been trying to say. Because it's all about wins, if If Bob and Susie have approximately the same MMR as Peter and Jerry, but have an advantage, then their MMR takes that advantage into account.

Ok, a ridiculously contrived example: Let's say someone has only 1 arm. That's a big disadvantage. Let's say they are really good at SC, but their apm is low because of the 1 arm. Now let's say they make it into platinum. They shouldn't then whine that 2 armed people have an advantage in platinum over them -- the system doesn't care whether you have 1 arm or 2, it only cares how well you've played. Platinum 2 armed people play as well as our 1-armed friend. If our friend had 2 arms, he'd probably be high diamond. "Fair?" who cares -- life isn't fair. This is about playing opponents who will be closely matched with you. And that will occur in this scenario.

It's the same way in our 2v2s. Who cares if it isn't "fair"...I care about playing a closely matched game. I don't care what supposed advantages/disadvantages they have, I just care about whether it will be a good game.




Did you even read what I wrote? I clearly address this in my hypothetical example. I made the example just for this same, repeating flawed argument. Read again. Read what happens to Bob and Susie on their 21st match. If you think 10 wins 10 losses vs 10 wins 10 losses in the past ensures an equal match you are fooling yourself.
Jaug
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden249 Posts
August 28 2010 21:50 GMT
#50
On August 28 2010 14:29 Carthage wrote:
My last 5 or 6 4v4 games have been against arranged teams with allies who passionately argue that canons into void rays is a perfectly good strategy and other such nonsense. The worst part is, these are considered "even" matches.

Team games are dead to me, I can't play silly because there is hardly any time to do anything neat, and I can't play seriously because my allies don't understand even the base fundamentals of the game.

1v1 is just stressful and also not fun at all.

With team games being awful, and 1v1 being awful, I have nothing left that's fun in SC2 :\


The thing is, if you play random team vs random team both teams will have good and bad players.

Playing RT vs AT the case is often that the AT has no weak players and therefore they win 75% (calculated form 68 45) of the games they are matched vs RT with current system.
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