On November 12 2011 10:39 Qibla wrote: I love Tyler, but i think it was a bit arrogant of him to say it's not as important as other issues, even though this issue has sprouted 4 threads which have dominated the forum his team runs for the past week. They've literally been the top 4 most read and replied to threads everyday. How can this be overlooked?
First thing you should keep in mind is that it doesn't matter how important the subject of a talk is. What matters is how important the contribution you are going to make by talking about it is. So if we have nothing unique to say, or we don't have a particular opinion that we think needs our weight behind it, then we simply don't say anything. Or one of us will say the obvious thing and others will say "I agree with what he said" and that's that.
Second thing is that it doesn't matter how much a topic makes people want to post on a forum. You judge its importance by its ability to compel forum members to publicly say something about it. Keeping in mind the first thing, this doesn't really amount to much. There are really only two kinds of people that matter. The first kind is the person who has evidence that hasn't come to light. All the evidence should come out so these people need to reveal the facts and give some proof of the facts if they're not reputable people. The second kind of person who matters is someone with some kind of power over something or someone affected by what happened, so that now they have to do something because of what happened. Examples include the folks at IPL, anyone who may have worked with Gus in the future, anyone who was a victim, etc.
The second group of people is actually going to be doing things in reaction to what happened. They gotta figure out what happened and they gotta figure out a wise response. They can read strangers' opinions on forums to help them figure out what to do. Gauging the general reaction of the community can also be helpful. They can look to pillars in the community and consider their opinions. In some cases, an issue will be so complex that one of these resources can end up being really useful. In most cases, these opinions don't matter. People keep private counsel and it's very often sufficient.
So what do all those posts and opinions matter? Almost nothing. It's mostly people who simply like talking about things related to their interest, the SC2 pro scene. They aren't actually making a difference. They post for fun. They hit f5 for fun. They must consume every morsel leaked and then proclaim their judgement. That's fine. I've done it a ton in the past and I still do it here and there. But that activity does not affect what I say on SOTG.
From the little I've read about the issues, they're very black and white. There's really nothing that's not obvious to say about them. All the facts weren't immediately obvious but the way to respond to the facts, as more and more info leaked out, was always obvious. So why should I care? I'm not involved and I trust the people who are involved can figure things out for themselves and public opinion will pretty much be correct so I don't need to tell people what to think. I just figured that when it's all over, I'll read some nice summary of everything that happened and how everything turned out, just so I can be informed and entertained. But I'm not gonna follow it as it happens because that's a huge waste of time (if you don't enjoy it). No such summary came to my attention before the show and so I didn't even know everything that happened, but I knew enough to know that I wasn't gonna have anything useful to say about it.
I still think that Artosis's contribution was the only good one we could make because it seemed to me that the goodness in that scene was being overlooked by all the bad things that happened. I thought about scolding IPL a little bit for not having a fail-safe but I thought that was a bit feeble and I knew that IPL didn't need to hear that.
If there was some hot debate that I missed or no one knew what to think, then I apologize for misjudging the situation. Otherwise, I have no regret. But even then I wouldn't have much regret because I really strongly prefer talking about things we're directly involved in or passionate about, or talking about games and strategies. I rate this kind of thing very low on priority for our show. It's very high priority on Slasher's show but not SOTG imo!
On November 12 2011 01:23 Xalorian wrote: I am kinda disgusted that they skipped the PPSL event and Gus drama like that. It was pretty much the most IMPORTANT event of the month... Yes, talking about MLG is fine, but for god sake this is way more important.
And it's not hard to follow it... there's like 3 or 4 thread OP to read, and maybe some twits... that's it.
SotG, you are disappointing
It's not important at all. Some guy fucked up running an event... why does that matter? What are we gonna say about it that desperately needs to be said?
Perhaps when more information is released, instead of talking about the PPSL directly, a topic that could be discussed in the future legalities or policy dealings for major tournaments. As "e-sports" grows, a more universal set of assurances and obligations needs to be founded to prevent similar events from taking place. Not just between Organizers and sponsors, but with players as well. Travel expenses are too high to this sort of thing to occur. I really think the community in general needs to be organized a bit more formally to protect mutual interests between all three parties, and the PPSL could be a text book learning example for everyone.
Obviously a guy screwed up, but what happened, and how it could be avoided across the board its something I think important to the "state of the game".
While most big tournaments more or less have their shit together, using the prize pool thread as an example, even they have some issues. I think a dialogue on organizational policy, legal rights, and managing would be an interesting discussion to have from the players perspective (you and everyone but JP) and from people who work major tournaments (JP). Perhaps even a special guest or two in the form of Sundance, Carmac, Chae, or someone else prominent in the tournament scene could comment.
I know SoTG is not investigative news and this isn't directly tied to the metagame or balance, but I feel it is relevant to the future of the state of the game. And I am sure a lot of people are interested in learning and listening about your guys opinions and insights in the more business side of progaming.
Yeah we could talk about that, but we already have in past shows. We all think the scene would greatly benefit from a competent governing body. One of us could have said in 5 seconds "this is just another example of why we need a governing body asap" but I guess we didn't feel like making that point.
One more point I'd like to make is that, if anyone was gonna jump into this topic, it'd be incontrol. He wasn't with us for this episode, so we missed his unique presence and contribution. I think what normally would have happened is Geoff would have had a little back and forth with JP and then we'd all kinda get dragged into commenting on things too, or making jokes, or whatever. And we love having incontrol on the show so that he can do his thing. None of us changed our behavior because of his absence, so whatever unique things he adds to the show simply weren't there. And that's probably what felt off about the whole thing to a lot of regular SOTG viewers.
I miss a show that isn't directly owned by one of the major e-sports organisations.. OneMoreGame.TV (Lo3, WoC, ITG), SotG, SCcenter, "¤#% Slasher are all owned (or bought) by the organizations.. I would really like a show where people can say whatever they want about anything.. I mean, no matter what you say, JP does have to take into consideration what topics are brought up, that it is indeed a MLG show (SotG), and that other organisations can interpret statements made on the show, as MLG sanctioned.. Just as DJwheat has to take into consideration what he says about EG, thats just how it is..
A grassroots show where interesting people could stick a big fat "fuck you" in the face of anyone if they felt it was warrented, would be awesome
that wont happen in esports for a long long time. the vast vast majority of hiring within the esports is still a friendship group circle jerk. an independent journalist has almost no chance of being hired by any company currently in the starcraft scene.
then you factor in that every news source for esports news is affiliated with a team and once again no one can be independent. kennigit brought up most of the reasons for a lack of that kind of thing on the mlg show he was on tonight, but they kind of skirted around any kind of solution.
On November 12 2011 15:31 ELA wrote: I miss a show that isn't directly owned by one of the major e-sports organisations.. OneMoreGame.TV (Lo3, WoC, ITG), SotG, SCcenter, "¤#% Slasher are all owned (or bought) by the organizations.. I would really like a show where people can say whatever they want about anything.. I mean, no matter what you say, JP does have to take into consideration what topics are brought up, that it is indeed a MLG show (SotG), and that other organisations can interpret statements made on the show, as MLG sanctioned.. Just as DJwheat has to take into consideration what he says about EG, thats just how it is..
A grassroots show where interesting people could stick a big fat "fuck you" in the face of anyone if they felt it was warrented, would be awesome
The "show" you're talking about is the Team Liquid forums, where anonymous people talk about whatever they want related to Starcraft 2.
There never was a possibility of a "grassroots" show, everyone who actually matters has vested interest in something. Tyler and Idra have to represent their teams, Artosis represents Gomtv, Incontrol also represents EG. All professionals have to watch out for what they're saying.
Additionally, for the most part your point is moot since SOTG is fairly free to discuss whatever it wants. People on the show were never shy to point out how MLG doesn't quite take care of the players as well as other tournaments, the meager prize pool, not enough seating, etc. etc.
On November 12 2011 15:31 ELA wrote: I miss a show that isn't directly owned by one of the major e-sports organisations.. OneMoreGame.TV (Lo3, WoC, ITG), SotG, SCcenter, "¤#% Slasher are all owned (or bought) by the organizations.. I would really like a show where people can say whatever they want about anything.. I mean, no matter what you say, JP does have to take into consideration what topics are brought up, that it is indeed a MLG show (SotG), and that other organisations can interpret statements made on the show, as MLG sanctioned.. Just as DJwheat has to take into consideration what he says about EG, thats just how it is..
A grassroots show where interesting people could stick a big fat "fuck you" in the face of anyone if they felt it was warrented, would be awesome
onemoregame.tv is owned by what major e-sports organization? Its Wheat and Scoots channel.
On November 12 2011 15:31 ELA wrote: I miss a show that isn't directly owned by one of the major e-sports organisations.. OneMoreGame.TV (Lo3, WoC, ITG), SotG, SCcenter, "¤#% Slasher are all owned (or bought) by the organizations.. I would really like a show where people can say whatever they want about anything.. I mean, no matter what you say, JP does have to take into consideration what topics are brought up, that it is indeed a MLG show (SotG), and that other organisations can interpret statements made on the show, as MLG sanctioned.. Just as DJwheat has to take into consideration what he says about EG, thats just how it is..
A grassroots show where interesting people could stick a big fat "fuck you" in the face of anyone if they felt it was warrented, would be awesome
onemoregame.tv is owned by what major e-sports organization? Its Wheat and Scoots channel.
On November 12 2011 15:31 ELA wrote: I miss a show that isn't directly owned by one of the major e-sports organisations.. OneMoreGame.TV (Lo3, WoC, ITG), SotG, SCcenter, "¤#% Slasher are all owned (or bought) by the organizations.. I would really like a show where people can say whatever they want about anything.. I mean, no matter what you say, JP does have to take into consideration what topics are brought up, that it is indeed a MLG show (SotG), and that other organisations can interpret statements made on the show, as MLG sanctioned.. Just as DJwheat has to take into consideration what he says about EG, thats just how it is..
A grassroots show where interesting people could stick a big fat "fuck you" in the face of anyone if they felt it was warrented, would be awesome
onemoregame.tv is owned by what major e-sports organization? Its Wheat and Scoots channel.
Personally, I enjoy State of the Game primarily for it's more chilled, laid back and friendly atmosphere. It's pretty awesome to tune in to a handful of my favourite SC2 personalities and JP (Kidding JP, lovasya) having the vent conversations I have with my friends, on the same topics, in the same way. It's interesting to see how we compared up with their views, and how ours changed afterwards. TV tries to do this a lot and increasingly commissioning briefs for shows talk about how the viewers don't just want to be watching the shows, they want to feel they are a part of them.
JP has always done a very very amazing (and in my opinion, under appreciated job) of weaving the pace and direction of what people talk about, naturally. That's an amazing ability, and if you break down what he says and how he phrases things, he's doing a fantastic job steering the content forwards and making sure most things get covered, and it wraps up in a positive way. That's maybe off point, but it all adds to selling me the idea I'm listening in to them as an equal, I'm listening to their opinions as people which isn't correlative to their ability at SC2. I utterly accept their opinions are worth more than mine on topics they have raw experience in (Gameplay, Units, Matchups), but on the topic of how one guy misappropriatly handles his shit and his tournament? I think I can stand on their level and speak about the ethics and business practices and how destructive that can be. I enjoy that they can speak their minds and it's far away from official statements.
When I watch State of the Game, I don't want mannered no-swears Day9 he is on stream, I want to hear the other side of his personality, more Sean Plott, and call someone a fucker and look annoyed unfairly (but amusingly). The same for Tyler, I don't want any Liquid pre-approved (and not saying things are ever that staunch, but I mean in terms of published sponsor catered media) messages. I like just seeing them speak their minds, laugh about it and feel comfortable.
The problem with everyone having such devising and splitting opinions around 'how much they should talk about x' or 'not giving enough focus and attention to y' is that it's pushing SotG to an area it's not supposed to be in, or wasn't designed to fill, then holding it up to those standards. I think it's pretty hilarious to assume Tyler has enough time and patience to go in-depth with understanding enough about any SC2 drama that he's confident enough to state an opinion clearly and defensively. You can say critical things of yourself and what you did yesterday as you lived it first hand, being able to have that same level of comfort to speak as much about say, the Greece financial situation is next to impossible. Now, SC2 drama is not as large scale as the Greek financial fiasco, but compared to how much one person can know from outside sources and second hand information is still staggering. You expect them to know enough about something which had little coverage, base their judgements on primarily second hand information (from screddit too, which I am a fan off, but come on) and then hold out opinions that will be scrutinised and (if they get it wrong, potentially: ) hold accountable for?
I want State of the Game to remain as it is, conceptionally and content wise. I never want it to get to the point where everything everyone says, has to be preceded with a "Now this is just my opinion, I know some people will comment/hate..". Geoff already does this, a lot, due to the backlash he often gets. People will always post and dramallama about things said on any platform, that's to be expected and largely ignored. If everyone has so little to do than bicker and whine about how what they feel entitled to as an audience isn't met, by the people on the show; then accept that state of the game isn't where you go for those opinions and make your own show. You've clearly captured a niche market for a programme where you can justly and fairly comment and dish out opinions on a large scale to an audience on subjects seemingly too encompassing for one person. I'd give you my viewer ship.
TL;DR Stop expecting a small select group of people who share your passion to tell you how you should be feeling. If you're that bothered, go make up your own fucking minds. Oh and keep it to yourself.
On November 12 2011 15:31 ELA wrote: I miss a show that isn't directly owned by one of the major e-sports organisations.. OneMoreGame.TV (Lo3, WoC, ITG), SotG, SCcenter, "¤#% Slasher are all owned (or bought) by the organizations.. I would really like a show where people can say whatever they want about anything.. I mean, no matter what you say, JP does have to take into consideration what topics are brought up, that it is indeed a MLG show (SotG), and that other organisations can interpret statements made on the show, as MLG sanctioned.. Just as DJwheat has to take into consideration what he says about EG, thats just how it is..
A grassroots show where interesting people could stick a big fat "fuck you" in the face of anyone if they felt it was warrented, would be awesome
onemoregame.tv is owned by what major e-sports organization? Its Wheat and Scoots channel.
scoots works for eg and all the sponsors for omg.tv shows are also eg sponsors probably arranged by scoots. wheat also has a working relationship with eg by casting for them, the list goes on.
On November 12 2011 01:23 Xalorian wrote: I am kinda disgusted that they skipped the PPSL event and Gus drama like that. It was pretty much the most IMPORTANT event of the month... Yes, talking about MLG is fine, but for god sake this is way more important.
And it's not hard to follow it... there's like 3 or 4 thread OP to read, and maybe some twits... that's it.
SotG, you are disappointing
It's not important at all. Some guy fucked up running an event... why does that matter? What are we gonna say about it that desperately needs to be said?
Perhaps when more information is released, instead of talking about the PPSL directly, a topic that could be discussed in the future legalities or policy dealings for major tournaments. As "e-sports" grows, a more universal set of assurances and obligations needs to be founded to prevent similar events from taking place. Not just between Organizers and sponsors, but with players as well. Travel expenses are too high to this sort of thing to occur. I really think the community in general needs to be organized a bit more formally to protect mutual interests between all three parties, and the PPSL could be a text book learning example for everyone.
Obviously a guy screwed up, but what happened, and how it could be avoided across the board its something I think important to the "state of the game".
While most big tournaments more or less have their shit together, using the prize pool thread as an example, even they have some issues. I think a dialogue on organizational policy, legal rights, and managing would be an interesting discussion to have from the players perspective (you and everyone but JP) and from people who work major tournaments (JP). Perhaps even a special guest or two in the form of Sundance, Carmac, Chae, or someone else prominent in the tournament scene could comment.
I know SoTG is not investigative news and this isn't directly tied to the metagame or balance, but I feel it is relevant to the future of the state of the game. And I am sure a lot of people are interested in learning and listening about your guys opinions and insights in the more business side of progaming.
Yeah we could talk about that, but we already have in past shows. We all think the scene would greatly benefit from a competent governing body. One of us could have said in 5 seconds "this is just another example of why we need a governing body asap" but I guess we didn't feel like making that point.
One more point I'd like to make is that, if anyone was gonna jump into this topic, it'd be incontrol. He wasn't with us for this episode, so we missed his unique presence and contribution. I think what normally would have happened is Geoff would have had a little back and forth with JP and then we'd all kinda get dragged into commenting on things too, or making jokes, or whatever. And we love having incontrol on the show so that he can do his thing. None of us changed our behavior because of his absence, so whatever unique things he adds to the show simply weren't there. And that's probably what felt off about the whole thing to a lot of regular SOTG viewers.
I think the show was fine and given the position of the individuals contributing, reactions were about as I expected they would be. But I feel like the governing body idea or at least some kind of mutual understanding between the three parties with open commitments is a subject that while needed gets danced around. Someone needs to start the dialogue somewhere, and the PPSL might be useful in being a catalyst for serious discussion.
I mean, if it is ignored by the players and tournament organizers, wouldn't it then likely end up being the major sponsors that establish something with the notion of protecting profit margins at the focus? That can't be a good position for everyone else to be placed in. But I don't know, maybe that would be best.
On November 12 2011 15:31 ELA wrote: I miss a show that isn't directly owned by one of the major e-sports organisations.. OneMoreGame.TV (Lo3, WoC, ITG), SotG, SCcenter, "¤#% Slasher are all owned (or bought) by the organizations.. I would really like a show where people can say whatever they want about anything.. I mean, no matter what you say, JP does have to take into consideration what topics are brought up, that it is indeed a MLG show (SotG), and that other organisations can interpret statements made on the show, as MLG sanctioned.. Just as DJwheat has to take into consideration what he says about EG, thats just how it is..
A grassroots show where interesting people could stick a big fat "fuck you" in the face of anyone if they felt it was warrented, would be awesome
onemoregame.tv is owned by what major e-sports organization? Its Wheat and Scoots channel.
scoots works for eg and all the sponsors for omg.tv shows are also eg sponsors probably arranged by scoots. wheat also has a working relationship with eg by casting for them, the list goes on.
I agree they have an EG affiliation, but an affiliation and an owned by are two very different things. Wheat also has a working relationship with MLG and IPL.
I just don't think the OMG productions are like the MLG owned ones. They are far more independent.
I don't understand why lots of ppl expect this SOTG to shit all over that PPSL. Really? You love to know what happened behind? Who cares anymore, it's over, it was an accident and a lesson that IPL already learned.
On November 12 2011 16:17 tuho12345 wrote: I don't understand why lots of ppl expect this SOTG to shit all over that PPSL. Really? You love to know what happened behind? Who cares anymore, it's over, it was an accident and a lesson that IPL already learned.
This opinion interest me, what would you like the hosts to talk about in you ideal dream StoG?
On November 12 2011 10:39 Qibla wrote: I love Tyler, but i think it was a bit arrogant of him to say it's not as important as other issues, even though this issue has sprouted 4 threads which have dominated the forum his team runs for the past week. They've literally been the top 4 most read and replied to threads everyday. How can this be overlooked?
tyler never said it wasnt important, what tyler waid was that it has no place to be talked about on SOTG especially since everyone else has already covered it to death, there is nothing they can even add so why bother talking about it
He said it in this thread a few pages back. I believe 2 posts under you it has been quoted.
On November 12 2011 16:17 tuho12345 wrote: I don't understand why lots of ppl expect this SOTG to shit all over that PPSL. Really? You love to know what happened behind? Who cares anymore, it's over, it was an accident and a lesson that IPL already learned.
I think what this episode illustrated is that SOTG is mainly concerned with 'front-of-house' issues. Which is to say, the panel is composed of 'celebrity' players and commentators, and they are mainly concerned with issues like the performance of other players, how tournaments treat them and viewers personally, how teams are treating players, etc.
For instance, in the previous episode there was a pretty blatant and concerned "call-to-action" for viewers to punish tournaments that don't pay players on time.
Now why wouldn't the show do the same when a tournament treats vendors, unknown players or their own staff poorly?
If you want to see an interesting contrast, watch the last Live on 3. Scoots, Slasher and DJ Wheat had plenty of outrage and plenty to say about the PPSL situation. I believe this is partially because have all been 'back-of-house' guys that have experience busting their ass behind-the-scenes, and doing all the dirty work and logistics of running a tournament.
On November 12 2011 10:39 Qibla wrote: I love Tyler, but i think it was a bit arrogant of him to say it's not as important as other issues, even though this issue has sprouted 4 threads which have dominated the forum his team runs for the past week. They've literally been the top 4 most read and replied to threads everyday. How can this be overlooked?
First thing you should keep in mind is that it doesn't matter how important the subject of a talk is. What matters is how important the contribution you are going to make by talking about it is. So if we have nothing unique to say, or we don't have a particular opinion that we think needs our weight behind it, then we simply don't say anything. Or one of us will say the obvious thing and others will say "I agree with what he said" and that's that.
Second thing is that it doesn't matter how much a topic makes people want to post on a forum. You judge its importance by its ability to compel forum members to publicly say something about it. Keeping in mind the first thing, this doesn't really amount to much. There are really only two kinds of people that matter. The first kind is the person who has evidence that hasn't come to light. All the evidence should come out so these people need to reveal the facts and give some proof of the facts if they're not reputable people. The second kind of person who matters is someone with some kind of power over something or someone affected by what happened, so that now they have to do something because of what happened. Examples include the folks at IPL, anyone who may have worked with Gus in the future, anyone who was a victim, etc.
The second group of people is actually going to be doing things in reaction to what happened. They gotta figure out what happened and they gotta figure out a wise response. They can read strangers' opinions on forums to help them figure out what to do. Gauging the general reaction of the community can also be helpful. They can look to pillars in the community and consider their opinions. In some cases, an issue will be so complex that one of these resources can end up being really useful. In most cases, these opinions don't matter. People keep private counsel and it's very often sufficient.
So what do all those posts and opinions matter? Almost nothing. It's mostly people who simply like talking about things related to their interest, the SC2 pro scene. They aren't actually making a difference. They post for fun. They hit f5 for fun. They must consume every morsel leaked and then proclaim their judgement. That's fine. I've done it a ton in the past and I still do it here and there. But that activity does not affect what I say on SOTG.
From the little I've read about the issues, they're very black and white. There's really nothing that's not obvious to say about them. All the facts weren't immediately obvious but the way to respond to the facts, as more and more info leaked out, was always obvious. So why should I care? I'm not involved and I trust the people who are involved can figure things out for themselves and public opinion will pretty much be correct so I don't need to tell people what to think. I just figured that when it's all over, I'll read some nice summary of everything that happened and how everything turned out, just so I can be informed and entertained. But I'm not gonna follow it as it happens because that's a huge waste of time (if you don't enjoy it). No such summary came to my attention before the show and so I didn't even know everything that happened, but I knew enough to know that I wasn't gonna have anything useful to say about it.
I still think that Artosis's contribution was the only good one we could make because it seemed to me that the goodness in that scene was being overlooked by all the bad things that happened. I thought about scolding IPL a little bit for not having a fail-safe but I thought that was a bit feeble and I knew that IPL didn't need to hear that.
If there was some hot debate that I missed or no one knew what to think, then I apologize for misjudging the situation. Otherwise, I have no regret. But even then I wouldn't have much regret because I really strongly prefer talking about things we're directly involved in or passionate about, or talking about games and strategies. I rate this kind of thing very low on priority for our show. It's very high priority on Slasher's show but not SOTG imo!
On November 12 2011 01:23 Xalorian wrote: I am kinda disgusted that they skipped the PPSL event and Gus drama like that. It was pretty much the most IMPORTANT event of the month... Yes, talking about MLG is fine, but for god sake this is way more important.
And it's not hard to follow it... there's like 3 or 4 thread OP to read, and maybe some twits... that's it.
SotG, you are disappointing
It's not important at all. Some guy fucked up running an event... why does that matter? What are we gonna say about it that desperately needs to be said?
Perhaps when more information is released, instead of talking about the PPSL directly, a topic that could be discussed in the future legalities or policy dealings for major tournaments. As "e-sports" grows, a more universal set of assurances and obligations needs to be founded to prevent similar events from taking place. Not just between Organizers and sponsors, but with players as well. Travel expenses are too high to this sort of thing to occur. I really think the community in general needs to be organized a bit more formally to protect mutual interests between all three parties, and the PPSL could be a text book learning example for everyone.
Obviously a guy screwed up, but what happened, and how it could be avoided across the board its something I think important to the "state of the game".
While most big tournaments more or less have their shit together, using the prize pool thread as an example, even they have some issues. I think a dialogue on organizational policy, legal rights, and managing would be an interesting discussion to have from the players perspective (you and everyone but JP) and from people who work major tournaments (JP). Perhaps even a special guest or two in the form of Sundance, Carmac, Chae, or someone else prominent in the tournament scene could comment.
I know SoTG is not investigative news and this isn't directly tied to the metagame or balance, but I feel it is relevant to the future of the state of the game. And I am sure a lot of people are interested in learning and listening about your guys opinions and insights in the more business side of progaming.
Yeah we could talk about that, but we already have in past shows. We all think the scene would greatly benefit from a competent governing body. One of us could have said in 5 seconds "this is just another example of why we need a governing body asap" but I guess we didn't feel like making that point.
One more point I'd like to make is that, if anyone was gonna jump into this topic, it'd be incontrol. He wasn't with us for this episode, so we missed his unique presence and contribution. I think what normally would have happened is Geoff would have had a little back and forth with JP and then we'd all kinda get dragged into commenting on things too, or making jokes, or whatever. And we love having incontrol on the show so that he can do his thing. None of us changed our behavior because of his absence, so whatever unique things he adds to the show simply weren't there. And that's probably what felt off about the whole thing to a lot of regular SOTG viewers.
Very good posts! I agree with your assessment on what is or is not worth talking about completely. Keep it up man ^_^
EPT
