EPTOn August 17 2010 16:35 purerythem wrote:
isn't that like... 2+ years away, and in blizzard time, around 8-10?
isn't that like... 2+ years away, and in blizzard time, around 8-10?
They said it'd be 18 months, which is long enough though...
[D] Zerg creep: Killing the Zerg spirit? - Page 2
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ahwala
Germany418 Posts
They said it'd be 18 months, which is long enough though... | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On August 17 2010 16:31 triumph wrote: creep spreading is one of the coolest parts of SC2. Don't blame the mechanic, blame the early game unit design. Yeah creep mechanic is very cool but it should be a bonus, not a necessity. Looks like they just lowered speed of all zerg units and then added creep speed bonus so they can move normal. | ||
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foo
Australia109 Posts
On August 17 2010 16:24 OneFierceZealot wrote: i think every zerg agrees on disliking the creep mechanic. i hate giving up map control for the first 10 minutes of the game just because of the lack of creep and all zerg units move like reavers off creep. that being said it looks cool when it spreads. and also did you notice on maps like steppes of war the creep climps a bit on the edges? pretty sweet. Nope, im a zerg player and i LOVE the creep mechanic... sounds like you are not bein proactive enough about spreading creep, especially when your first units are zerglings into usually very fast s/lings you are not really sacrificing map control... creep is almost like zergs own "maphacks" (HD reference), in conjuction with overlords the ability to know where the oposing army is coming from/when it is coming is priceless information... | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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divertiti
Canada106 Posts
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Morphs
Netherlands645 Posts
What I do have a problem with is that too many upgrades require a Lair. Personally I think Baneling speed, Roach speed and Burrow could be Tier 1 just as good. That would allow for a LOT more T1 gameplay. Currently Zerg really needs to tech to Lair in order to be decent... i think a bit too much was placed at Lair level... | ||
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Ai52487963
United Kingdom136 Posts
I think if zerg units had only like a 5-10% speed boost on creep, then the difference in speed could be given to units like the roach and hydra to make the zerg feel more swarmish again. Make hydras faster off creep but don't make the on-creep bonus too zany. So much of the time I have a big army and, even though I'm very proactive in my creep tumoring, I still feel limited in where I can maneuver my forces. In BW, I owned the map and now it feels like I just own the creep. | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
I agree 100%. we are supposed to flank, but without creep we can only do it with lings. To spread creep... it's like an old tetris-like gameboy game inside starcraft. worst thing ever done by blizzard. | ||
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Ordained
United States779 Posts
On August 17 2010 16:17 Mindcrime wrote: The creep mechanic makes me feel like I'm being punished whenever I dare to move out of the territory I already control. :| This takes the words right out of my mouth. It isn't like Terran is paving roads everywhere they go. | ||
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BuzzJuice
United States97 Posts
A lot of people say that they hate the new creep mechanic and wish it was just like the days of Brood War. Only problem is this is SC2, not SC1. I do feel that Zerg moves slow as heck off creep, but I do feel that the way it has been implemented Zerg has to spread its creep and territory which is before a neglected resource. Note also, that Zerg is pretty fast. Its not like Hydras move to a complete crawl and Roaches are still decent, especially considering that your typical anti Zerg armies aka Immortal Collosi and Terran mech are generally slow allowing you to outmanuever them. And if you still feel you can't ambush anyone try messing with Nydus Worms in the mid-late game. Or Overlord drops. Or air units like Mutas... The point of these methods is not that "Yes the guy is ready for all of these things. Zerg in SC2 have nothing". Because if he is, then he would probably not have allowed you in Brood War to outmanuever him and ambush him because he is good enough to account for all of these things. | ||
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Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
Does it need some number tweaking here and there for balance? Perhaps, I cannot make the decision. But heck it's one of the coolest thing in the game ;O | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
Hydras are laughably slow off of creep... it seems that their creep speed ought to be about their base speed, and their current off-creep speed should be the result of massive genetic failures resulting in a new unit called the Gimpalisk. Zerg units should get a bonus on creep, not suffer a penalty when off of it. | ||
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NonFactor
Sweden698 Posts
On August 17 2010 16:03 HelterSkelter wrote: I think a good solution would be to reverse creep. Instead of having Zerg move faster on creep, make enemies move slower. That way the advantage to spreading it is still great, but there isn't really a punishment if you don't. That's not a solution. The issue here is that Zerg ONLY can flank properly on creep. In BW all our units were incredibly fast. We had no ''laggers'', Speedlings, Hydralisks, Lurkers, all were fast units and could be upgraded with speed very fast. Currently Hydralisks, even though they are much stronger in DPS department, are incredibly slow and have low HP. Roaches get their speed buff at lair. It's not an overstatement when people say that Hydra is a creep unit, because their near impossible to micro efficiently outside creep, against units like HTs, Colossus, and Siege Tanks. Flanking when your not on creep is very hard, and if you think just ''making more queens to spread creep early on'' will fix anything, it won't lol. People been copying the fast creep thing that Idra did for ages now, and usually the creep will be at most only on your side of the map, which doesen't allow Zerg to be offensive at all. Only proper offensive unit is Roaches, but again, only when upgraded. Lings die too easily, to pretty much everything. And sadly the maps currently don't really allow proper flanking in the first place due to them being so cramped. | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
Zerg being "too slow" off creep is a subjective thing, as non-zerg I might as well claim that Zerg units are too fast on creep. Creep isn´t supposed to be a home advantage, it´s supposed to be a mapcontrol taking incentive. Yeah, a single Scan might be able to see 3 Tumors - but doesn´t the Terran spend MORE resources for that than you did for the initial Tumor? Couldn´t you use the knowledge about the enemys position for your advantage? Regarding different advantages: HP regen just makes it a home advantage. Too inconsequential, there is no incentive to infest the map. Slows enemys: Merely makes airunits a higher priority against Zerg. | ||
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Onean
United Kingdom38 Posts
On August 17 2010 17:18 neohero9 wrote:Zerg units should get a bonus on creep, not suffer a penalty when off of it. This is exactly it. I don't mind the creep mechanic atm, but the only reason is because other players haven't yet been as proactive about stopping it as I have been about spreading it. Once there's a shift in strategy to sniping creep tumors I can imagine getting very frustrated with the whole thing. | ||
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
Compared to BW, at least, SC2 Zerg is a broken race. Everyone has just kinda laid back and accepted the fact that Zerg is this extremely reactionary race, but is this for the best? Why can't Zerg ever be the aggressor? The SC2 "Swarm" feels neutered. | ||
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imperator-xy
Germany1377 Posts
i think making creep slow the opponents wont change it creeps still needed then as the advantage it gives you is so huge either creep should give very little advantages like better healing rate or creep tumors should be buffed so that they cant be killed that easy. they could even be invulnerable to everything except for spells or something like that | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On August 17 2010 16:05 zomgtossrush wrote: You first 2 paragraphs told us nothing that isn't obvious to even the newest of players. You are basically complaining that you don't have the skill/apm/mechanics to use creep tumors/Oviepoop. Having creep also gives a nice scouting advantage. It can force a waste of a scan, or leave ravens/obs out for sniping. Let me translate your mindset to another situation: Stalkers are terrible. They don't shoot fast enough and cant shoot while moving. They also don't have enough hp for me. They also are too high on the tech ladder and take WAY too long to make. They dont regenerate sheilds fast enough and lings counter them. They should also come with detection because zerg can burrow units. i can't pretend that this would be blanced, but i'd rather see the protoss benefit from making stalkers, other than just being able to kill shit. How about you focus more on finding advantages with aspects of the game instead of dreaming about how to make things easier. What? He isn't complaining about that at all, he is saying that zerg is too slow off of creep.. Spreading creep with ovies and tumors isn't permanent like speed was in SC1, it's easily countered with an obs or a quick scan. I agree, some units are painful off of creep, and when you have a toss or terran army at your front door, I assure you that any decent player won't be on creep. So know,"LOL GET APM" doesn't fix the speed problem of Zerg troops, it'll just get you supply capped if your using ovies to do it. | ||
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Swede
New Zealand853 Posts
Instead of having a queen moving round the map spreading creep, the queen can use "nest" which basically attaches it to a hatchery. The queen can then use "creep spread" for the same amount of energy, but rather than placing a creep tumour, it increases the radius that creep spreads from the hatchery. That way, to remove the creep you must actually destroy the hatchery producing it, rather than just cruising across the map with a raven/observer killing all the tumours. Perhaps when hatcheries are connected by creep (which would take longer this way), the creep could begin spawning in a radius around the center between those two hatcheries, at an increased rate. Another way to do it would be that each "creep spread" increases the rate at which creep spreads each time, so the longer you have a queen "nesting" and using this spell the faster the creep will spread. It would also make turtling something to be thought about because you won't just be able to remove all the creep when you leave your base. Anyway, I'm not expecting this to be implemented at all, but I think it's worth thinking outside the box with the creep issues. | ||
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