EPTWe could then make game improvement strats for them like:
Kill the creep
Use Drops
Make a more diverse army
Tech Switch faster
Try leaving your base
...
[D] Zerg creep: Killing the Zerg spirit? - Page 5
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Kronologic
Great Britain45 Posts
We could then make game improvement strats for them like: Kill the creep Use Drops Make a more diverse army Tech Switch faster Try leaving your base ... | ||
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PlagueRat
United States39 Posts
Oh but what about the vision they offer... a good player will send his obs with a pack of w/e and kill every single friggen tumor and that requires way less apm than creating them. You are not waisting scans killing the tumors you are crippling the zergs ability to manuever. So now your tumors are gone no more creep and you are being pushed off the map by an army the same food count but incredibly superior. GG Oh and ive killed a few hidden hatcheries mid/late game by seeing the creep and thinking to myself hmmm i wonder where this goes. I played zerg from phase 1 to release and i have now switched to toss and terran for lols, I dont try to play this game pro. So why play a race that requires WAY more skill, effort, and focus just to beat some scrub whos whole plan is the 1 base push. And the fact that 1 base push is completly viable and deadly even if scouted makes me rofl even harder. GG blizz. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
On August 17 2010 22:50 Kronologic wrote: You know what if they did "Fix" the off creep zerg speed it would be great to hear the Terran players QQ. We could then make game improvement strats for them like: Kill the creep Use Drops Make a more diverse army Tech Switch faster Try leaving your base ... haha the terran's just havent learned how to use their race yet! ^_^ i'd love that. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
The solution to a lack of hydra aggression is nydus networks, no this doesn't mean "you're doing it wrong make networks!", but if the network was easier (cheaper) to get up and running you could use them as forward positions to start spreading creep from. So rather than having to cover the entire map distance between being able to be aggressive with hydralisks you could secure a semi-forward position with nydus then build from there cutting the time to be aggressive down naturally. As for having your tumors sniped.... well if you spread creep to an area you should be willing to control that area. If you can't keep your enemy from moving out and sniping creep then you're probably not in a good position to begin with creep snipe or not. Sure sometimes I sacrifice my outermost tumors so I can get intel on the enemy and engage on my own terms, but that's a conscious choice. Besides which is the bigger investment... 150/0 Queen for tumors, 50/100 observer, or 1 MULE lost for 1 scan. Observers are especially nice, it's free scouting for you. If an observer lets toss snipe your tumor you know colossi are on the way. | ||
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Kakisho
United States240 Posts
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shlomo
258 Posts
So in reality, creep isn't so much a buff speed wise (although it is for scouting definitely) as much as it's a requirement to stay on par with your opponent. | ||
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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eoLithic
Norway221 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 17 2010 23:54 eoLithic wrote: Creep is good if applied correctly, about it as far as this thread goes. If you`re not a good player, you have problems using creep to your advantage. if you`re a good player, you won`t! That isn't the issue. The issue is that creep isn't an advantage, it puts you on even footing. Without creep you are at a disadvantage. That is the core issue. Creep should be an advantage not a disadvantage. If this changed it would be a really cool mechanic. | ||
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theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
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Veritassong
Canada393 Posts
On August 17 2010 17:49 Swede wrote: An idea that I've been thinking over is actually to combine that ridiculously silly "nest" ability in the recent troll patch with creep spread. Instead of having a queen moving round the map spreading creep, the queen can use "nest" which basically attaches it to a hatchery. The queen can then use "creep spread" for the same amount of energy, but rather than placing a creep tumour, it increases the radius that creep spreads from the hatchery. That way, to remove the creep you must actually destroy the hatchery producing it, rather than just cruising across the map with a raven/observer killing all the tumours. Perhaps when hatcheries are connected by creep (which would take longer this way), the creep could begin spawning in a radius around the center between those two hatcheries, at an increased rate. Another way to do it would be that each "creep spread" increases the rate at which creep spreads each time, so the longer you have a queen "nesting" and using this spell the faster the creep will spread. It would also make turtling something to be thought about because you won't just be able to remove all the creep when you leave your base. Anyway, I'm not expecting this to be implemented at all, but I think it's worth thinking outside the box with the creep issues. lol.. nesting.. Anyways, I think T and P units should move slower on creep | ||
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jambam
United States324 Posts
On August 17 2010 22:05 SwaY- wrote: how is HotS your last hope, rofl 3 weeks into vanilla retail and we have not had balance patches yet. Sometimes I feel you zergs are such drama queens. Please contribute to the thread rather than bashing other people. That said I think that hydra speed off creep is horribad. I lold at Gimpalisk. the worst part is that it really wouldnt hurt balance for the to be a little faster. it's not like there's a key unit the gimps need to be slower then while off creep. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On August 18 2010 00:05 Numy wrote: That isn't the issue. The issue is that creep isn't an advantage, it puts you on even footing. Without creep you are at a disadvantage. That is the core issue. Creep should be an advantage not a disadvantage. If this changed it would be a really cool mechanic. How is it not an advantage. On creep... Speed Roach = 3.3 Hydra = 3.375 Speedling = 3.8 For comparison.... Marine with stim = 3.375 Stalkers = 2.975 Sure with their abilities like stim and blink the 'advantage' becomes 'even', but that's the flavor of the race. Terran and Protoss use active abilities for their mobility, while Zerg uses creep. If Zerg units were insanely mobile relative to Terran and Protoss units on creep then it'd just draw games out and given Zerg a crazy advantage. I think the speed mechanics are really fine right now. If you DO need to buff creep more, I'd have it be with burrow. Example: Creep reduces burrow/unborrow time for all units (not crawlers) by 50% Creep hides burrow movement graphical affect As for the hydra... Other than speed off creep and vulnerability to AoE damage the hydra is one of the best units in the game. Their dps/population is through the roof (below stimmed marines though). | ||
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iNty.sCream
Germany195 Posts
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blk.man.smart
United States20 Posts
One way of doing this is that the health of a creep tumor increases over time. So the newly spawned creep tumors will be venerable and can be taken down easily, but tumors near your base, or areas you had control over the whole time will be "entrenched" and take a lot more effort to kill. This gives the zerg player the time to react and try to defend the tumor. How much health a tumor should have and high fast it should increase is obviously something that would need to be tested, but the basic idea that the longer a creep tumor has been around the harder it is to kill, will reward Z players that actively spread creep early, and also reward T or P players who actively kill creep early. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On August 18 2010 00:34 iNty.sCream wrote: lol its simply not an advantage because you have to spread it over the entire map. its not like pressing the stim key or press the blink key to teleport 50 stalkers 235 yards away in 1 second.. why there is so much ignorance flavor of the race much? Stim isn't free (to use or to research). Blink isn't free (it's potentially the most expensive as it demands a citadel to be built) and it's not clear what the resulting move speed of stalkers constantly using blink are. plus it only affects one unit, two if charge is also gotten. | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
imo spreading creep should be a option/luxury, not a necessity because zerg units are crappily slow off creep if there not speed lings. + its way way way to easy to kill creep tumors. they get 1-2 shoted by just about everything. for toss all u rly need is an observer and 1 dt or 1 zealot. as a terran seige tank and scans OR u can just get a raven and drop auto turrets. why ppl havent abused this yet ill never know. | ||
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Kronologic
Great Britain45 Posts
On August 18 2010 00:40 Logo wrote: flavor of the race much? Stim isn't free (to use or to research). Blink isn't free (it's potentially the most expensive as it demands a citadel to be built) and it's not clear what the resulting move speed of stalkers constantly using blink are. plus it only affects one unit, two if charge is also gotten. Yes but your missing the point. Zerg is supposed to be the most mobile race. That should be on and off creep. The speed advantage gained by spreading creep should be a Reward for investing the APM. Not a punishment for not doing it. I guess there is no analogies that I can make for the other races that really compares tbh. | ||
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
I think they should add some more creep mechanisms if they plan to keep it this way. Simple stuff like: - Give the Overseer a spell that allows it to spread creep for a few seconds, even while moving. It could spawn a quick creep road for flanking/retreating/dropping. - Make infestors/overlords/overseers spawn a patch of creep upon death. - Add an upgrade that increases the creep generation rate across the board. - Make the Lair spread creep much farther, and the Hive even farther, also increasing sight. Hive should basically be a Sensor Tower made of creep, then we'd have to tactically choose which Hatchery to upgrade. - Make Overlords spawn with their spread creep ability activated. There's no reason this should ever be off anyway. | ||
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TheCookie
United Arab Emirates34 Posts
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