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I agree spreading creep early game can be a hassle, especially if you're working with one queen and you need all the larvae injects you can get... so i have some ideas on improving the creep mechanic...
1. What if making a creep tumor required no energy from the queen, but instead was on a cooldown... so for example, the queen could make one creep tumor every 30 sec or so. I think this wouldn't force you to have to sacrifice extra larvae early game just to make creep, and you wouldn't have to spend another 150 min making a second queen...
2. Every creep tumor could spawn an additional tumor... so you make one tumor from the queen, and that tumor can make two more... and those two could make two each.. and so on and so forth...
I'm pretty sure that if those two mechanics were introduced, creep spreading wouldn't be half as frustrating or time consuming for zerg players like myself.
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On August 17 2010 16:05 zomgtossrush wrote:
Stalkers are terrible. They don't shoot fast enough and cant shoot while moving. They also don't have enough hp for me. They also are too high on the tech ladder and take WAY too long to make. They dont regenerate sheilds fast enough and lings counter them. They should also come with detection because zerg can burrow units. i can't pretend that this would be blanced, but i'd rather see the protoss benefit from making stalkers, other than just being able to kill shit.
You couldn't be more wrong.
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On September 30 2010 16:32 Uranium wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 16:05 zomgtossrush wrote:
Stalkers are terrible. They don't shoot fast enough and cant shoot while moving. They also don't have enough hp for me. They also are too high on the tech ladder and take WAY too long to make. They dont regenerate sheilds fast enough and lings counter them. They should also come with detection because zerg can burrow units. i can't pretend that this would be blanced, but i'd rather see the protoss benefit from making stalkers, other than just being able to kill shit.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Haha, "Stalkers are terrible" he says. You realize they are the only unit that can teleport together in mass every 10 seconds and use that to run away if they need...? I agree, he couldn't be more wrong.
I agree spreading creep early game can be a hassle, especially if you're working with one queen and you need all the larvae injects you can get... so i have some ideas on improving the creep mechanic...
1. What if making a creep tumor required no energy from the queen, but instead was on a cooldown... so for example, the queen could make one creep tumor every 30 sec or so. I think this wouldn't force you to have to sacrifice extra larvae early game just to make creep, and you wouldn't have to spend another 150 min making a second queen...
2. Every creep tumor could spawn an additional tumor... so you make one tumor from the queen, and that tumor can make two more... and those two could make two each.. and so on and so forth...
I'm pretty sure that if those two mechanics were introduced, creep spreading wouldn't be half as frustrating or time consuming for zerg players like myself.
From your input, I came up with a viable idea:
This idea would add a lot of awesome strategy to Zerg. It would also require the enemy to focus in certain times in the game that they normally do not and finally give Zerg a much needed advantage in the game.
The idea is that Teir 2 Zerg can make a building that would make creep tumors indestructible until that building is destroyed (in which case all creep tumors would revert back to 15 hp if that building is destroyed). The rule is that only 1 of that building, which I recommend calling a "Cerebrate," can be built at a time. The gameplay involved is very interesting. Zerg players could get very sneaky about where they hide this building, because of the overlord creep spread. Also, this would cause a lot of other cool things in gameplay towards the zerg player's advantage.
For example, this would give Zerg the needed "opportunity" to cause the other races to bend to a Zerg player's will, rather than the other way around (as it always seems). It would finally open options to a zerg player to try and instigate the Terran or Protoss player to counter his creep tumors with a timed attack (instead of teching to colossi for example). This is the main reason I like the seperate building idea, rather than just a teir 2 upgrade. The building itself must be destroyed in order for the effect to go away.
Just an idea I think could work.
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Ideas are dime a dozen, it's sufficient to say 'balance the difficulty of spreading creep vs the ease of killing it' and then let Blizzard sort out the details. They're not going to pick your idea anyway.
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if zerg have to balance injections and creep spread, protoss and terran should bother have more than just chronoboost and mule to think about
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On September 30 2010 17:59 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
if zerg have to balance injections and creep spread, protoss and terran should bother have more than just chronoboost and mule to think about
well with terran you also have the option of supply drops or scans. maybe if they increased the energy it takes for a scan or something, but i think first 100 going to mules and the next going to a scan is pretty necessary in most cases (at least for me, low level diamond terran but switched back to zerg for a few weeks already)
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On September 30 2010 16:57 chimthegrim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 16:32 Uranium wrote:On August 17 2010 16:05 zomgtossrush wrote:
Stalkers are terrible. They don't shoot fast enough and cant shoot while moving. They also don't have enough hp for me. They also are too high on the tech ladder and take WAY too long to make. They dont regenerate sheilds fast enough and lings counter them. They should also come with detection because zerg can burrow units. i can't pretend that this would be blanced, but i'd rather see the protoss benefit from making stalkers, other than just being able to kill shit.
You couldn't be more wrong. Haha, "Stalkers are terrible" he says. You realize they are the only unit that can teleport together in mass every 10 seconds and use that to run away if they need...? I agree, he couldn't be more wrong. Show nested quote +
I agree spreading creep early game can be a hassle, especially if you're working with one queen and you need all the larvae injects you can get... so i have some ideas on improving the creep mechanic...
1. What if making a creep tumor required no energy from the queen, but instead was on a cooldown... so for example, the queen could make one creep tumor every 30 sec or so. I think this wouldn't force you to have to sacrifice extra larvae early game just to make creep, and you wouldn't have to spend another 150 min making a second queen...
2. Every creep tumor could spawn an additional tumor... so you make one tumor from the queen, and that tumor can make two more... and those two could make two each.. and so on and so forth...
I'm pretty sure that if those two mechanics were introduced, creep spreading wouldn't be half as frustrating or time consuming for zerg players like myself.
From your input, I came up with a viable idea: This idea would add a lot of awesome strategy to Zerg. It would also require the enemy to focus in certain times in the game that they normally do not and finally give Zerg a much needed advantage in the game. The idea is that Teir 2 Zerg can make a building that would make creep tumors indestructible until that building is destroyed (in which case all creep tumors would revert back to 15 hp if that building is destroyed). The rule is that only 1 of that building, which I recommend calling a "Cerebrate," can be built at a time. The gameplay involved is very interesting. Zerg players could get very sneaky about where they hide this building, because of the overlord creep spread. Also, this would cause a lot of other cool things in gameplay towards the zerg player's advantage. For example, this would give Zerg the needed "opportunity" to cause the other races to bend to a Zerg player's will, rather than the other way around (as it always seems). It would finally open options to a zerg player to try and instigate the Terran or Protoss player to counter his creep tumors with a timed attack (instead of teching to colossi for example). This is the main reason I like the seperate building idea, rather than just a teir 2 upgrade. The building itself must be destroyed in order for the effect to go away. Just an idea I think could work.
No the actual effect would be terrible as Zerg would just keep "starving" their enemys. After they drop Queens at every Expo they´d just spam crawlers around the cerebrate.
I´d say Creep is a case of the promotion paradoxon. If you keep promoting employees that do their job well you will eventually have everyone stuck in a position that they don´t do well in.
Creep is a free combat power upgrade - as if Zerg had +1/+1 on Creep. Thus Zerg Players will perform better against any given force on creep than they would off it. They thus hit a wall once opponents show up that force them to fight important battles off creep.
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Above is an important point.
Creep cannot give too large of a bonus or it becomes a necessity.
It should remain a bonus that has an important effect on the game or nobody will use it.
It cannot be too hard to get rid of or your opponent cannot expand.
It cannot be too hard to spread or nobody will use it.
I personally think anything that is movement speed related is going to be too powerful or unimportant. And it is on the "hard to spread" side of the spectrum.
HP regen would make it useful without punishing people when it's not there.
SOMETHING needs to be done about it though.
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Faster energy recharge for casters?
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What about making creep tumor a skill of overlords (not overseers) which doesn't require energy but maybe add a higher cooldown?
This would allow Zerg to spread creep faster since they don't need a queen for it and at tier 2 they can spread creep everywhere since the overlord can create creep and then place a creep tumor to spread it further. If that would be too OP maybe remove the creep spread from overlords after they place the tumor (they "creeped out")
Another idea would be to allow overlord transport from the beginning but keep them this slow until T2 tech. This means that Zerg can bypass walls in the early game if the enemy doesn't have vision of his whole base (which is rare in the early game), allowing zerg to be more aggressive as long as the enemy only has too few units to stop the slooooooooow overlord. Additionally add creep spread as T1 skill (maybe at 50/50 costs) so you can get a queen, transport it somewhere, spread creep and place tumors.
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EPT
