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On August 15 2010 19:21 pewzzri wrote:
There's only one protoss and 5 terrans top 10 in broodwar atm, protoss need buff and terr nerf there?
And like someone said before i think diamaga should change since all i've basicly seen from him is 1base baneling play and 1base works better with terr/toss imo.
afaik, that's just because dimaga is pissed off about zergs inability to win in large scale battles. Idra mentions this in the kotb winner's interview how dimaga seems to have decided that the nerfs basically make zerg useless so he's doing all-ins.
also, the thing about terrans being so strong in BW is because you need to be so much better mechanically with terran to be good with them, that you can't really complain, and it's not like there's no way to beat them.
most zergs here are complaining that they have no way of winning against a good terran player, and that's different. the top 10 in BW are generally only winning maybe 60-70% of their games, whereas, if a top zerg can't beat a top terran more than 1/10 games or so, then there's a problem.
however, most zergs don't have a right to complain about it, since most people aren't at a level where they understand the game well enough, and have good enough mechanics.
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dimaga did it during the kotb. but since he joined mtw he plays a macro style...
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On August 15 2010 04:21 EleanorRIgby wrote:
all these zergs saying they want to switch to terran and i have not seen one successfully do it
TLO seemed like he played mainly Zerg in most replays/casts then did very well as mainly Terran.
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one less zerg player's replay to learn from..
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Actually I asked DeMuslim about this a while ago and he said that maybe he will stick with zerg..
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You mean Dimaga, DeMuslim is Terran.
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DeMuslim is practicing with Dimaga, and he told me they tried some reverse matches (dimaga T demuslim Z), and that he (dimaga) might stay as zerg.
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Oh I get ya. I guess that's good news I guess?
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On August 15 2010 18:34 SeaSmoke wrote:
Can we just lose Thor air splash damage??? How much freaking splash does one race need?
i couldn't agree more. Siege tanks, Hellions, Thor, then stuff like EMP, nukes, HSM, and some amazing castable single target DPS spells (strike cannon, yamato, etc.)
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Yeah let's give terran no defence against mass muta.
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that'd be shame if Z players switched, i also think T is too strong vs Z especially with early game harass, i'd like to see some T buildings build time increased (therefore P's as well) and some movement speed buffs for zerg so they can flank/retreat better.
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On August 15 2010 20:13 Argoneus wrote:
Yeah let's give terran no defence against mass muta.
There are so many options already to stop muta push without Thor. With current units comp you don't need more than 1 of those clunky things positioned in natural and expo to defend against mass mutas. In BW you can't make one goliath to hold off a base against muta attack.
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On August 15 2010 20:13 Argoneus wrote:
Yeah let's give terran no defence against mass muta.
Muta's never got better from their transition from BW to SC2, in fact you could say they were nerfed with their inability to attack while losing no speed at all.
Terrans on the other hand, got their missile turret damage increased by 14, the Thor which replaces goliathes, and a bunch of minor advantages like 10 more hp on marines, even if you take the thor splash away there is so no way you can not do now what you could in BW
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hive upgrade that makes roaches 1 supply.
Is there any sense in that?
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I just think it's too premature to start switching main races. Not until at least the first major patch.
But still you have to respect his decision, it must be pretty hard to him too.
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On August 15 2010 19:19 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 17:11 Ballistixz wrote:I played a very good zerg player last night that completely rolled me (I am 800 diamond, he is higher I believe) and he really seemed to have the matchup figured out. We talked and he explained that most korean terran pros are now okay with the ZvT matchup and are having tons of problems with the ZvP matchup which many consider imbalanced.
I don't know, just another perspective. However, Dimaga is being pathetic for complaining that there are no changes so shortly after the game's release. You can't just force in the stupid kind of changes we see on the boards all the time. Zerg lategame is VERY imbalanced against Terran. Ultras have literally no counter short of battlecruisers which are just stupid to build against any Z who is smart enough to make corrupters. If the early-midgame ceases to favor Terran, I don't see how the matchup won't be completely broken. i really doubt your 800+ diamond judging from that sentence in bold. that are you are just biased as shit and blatantly ignore what the terran arsenal has. you are saying the only way to counter ultras is to build battlecruisers? you must have forggotten that marauders and thors 350MM cannons rip a new hole in ultras. not to mention unsieged tanks doing the major dps against the ultras. if properly microed the ultras wont even touch the thors because of 350MM cannons. and scvs will be right behind the thors for repair. also dimaga probably did the right thing by switching since he plays this game as a job and need to make money. hopefully this will show how that zergs need something done. probably need to be revamped all together. he is right to say that zerg pretty much relies on the mistakes of there opponents to win them games because thats exactly how it feels. zerg is also almost ALWAYS on the defensive if there toss or terran player is at the top of there game. the only match up zerg is actually allowed to be agressive is ZvZ... which is redundant. honestly you ppl should realize by now something is wrong with the match ups when zerg pretty much HAVE to rush to tier 2.5 units. and even whey they do get there they still pretty much loose to tier 1 units. in which case they need to rush to tier 3 units in order to actully win. and by this time tier 2 units still beat zergs tier 3 units. so the match up for bot zvt and zvp is zerg trying to rush to ultras or broodlords. and if there opponent slips up and makes a mistake then MAYBE they can win with hydras alone and take a early win. but very very rarely do u see a zerg winning early game unless there opponent tries to fast expand. and you people really think nothing is wrong with that? yet terrans can marine/marauder rush ur hatch or zealots can 2 gate rush u and win almost 50% of the time? honestly its bs. No he is correct. The problem with TvZ is that Terran has a huge timing window at midgame in which they rape zerg, but lategame Z > Terran, because Ultras rape all terran units. Sure you can try and counter with thors. And if you have 1 thor vs 1 ultra you may do well. But because of the critical mass problem, and the fact that the zerg can get more ultras than the terran can get thors, the terran thors will lose to the ultras. There is really nothing the terran can do vs ultras. Mauraders wont work, becuase of fungeral growth. IMO the best solution might be to change the gas cost of the ultra, while nerfing its dmg vs armored, so that it is now easier to get ultras on 2 base, while not as strong late game vs terran.
the thing is terrans can steal deal with them adequately. you dont need to "get battlecruisers" to deal with ultras as terran. and nerfing them wont help anything what so ever. all it will do is buff terrans even more. the fact that ultras is the ONLY unit that can actually (probaly) win a game for zerg is pretty messed up. and there is no guarantee that you will even win once u do get ultras.
yes once a zerg gets ultras there probality of winning the game goes up by a large margin but terran can still deal with it to some degree. and even still dont you think having to defend early game and mid game untill zerg can mass ONE unit to even hope of having a chance to beat terran is pretty fucked up and boring? zerg is basically trying to stay alive untill they can basically put all there hopes and dreams into one unit... thats pretty damn bad imo.
you are also forgetting about the TERRIBLE AI ultras have when they are anywhere near a unit that is named zergling or roach. you are also forgetting that ultras dont exactly work well in closed cramped spaces and small maps like blistering sands or steppes. there a massive melee unit trying to maneuver around smaller melee units to atk a massive ranged unit. thors will win almost all of the time. infact early beta thors had this same problem and u know what blizz did? they reduced the thors size to sort that problem out. and what did they do for ultras? they try to give it random stupid buffs that changed like 3 or 4 times during beta till they finnally solved its dmg dealing problem but didnt reduce its size like they did with thor....
colossus can walk over units which so they have no issue with pathing. thors got a size reduction. and ultras are still acting stupid around zergings and roaches. blizz is obviously not catering to the zerg player base as much as they have with toss and terrans. if they were alot of these issues would have already been addressed in beta. but instead all zerg got was nerfs. early beta zerg was fine, all terran needed was there buffs and it would be good. but instead they decided to buff terran along with nerfing zerg. then they decided to buff toss while continuing to nerf zerg. very very stupid.
and you know what happens when they got to a point of actually trying to nerf terran? "oh the nerf to concussive shell was to extreme and considered an "overnerf" so we will change it to 50/50 instead." which btw made it completely pointless in it even being a upgrade at all... and all the nerfs to roaches was not considered a "overnerf" even infestors got a few unneeded and stupid nerfs.
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Dayamn, Dimaga was definitely one of my fav. Zerg players. 
Although, if I was in his shoes, I'd probably be considering the same thing. It's gonna be interesting to see if this raises any eyebrows for Blizz to balance the game better or not.
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On August 15 2010 04:21 Sputty wrote:
It'll be funny when the balance patch comes and all the people that switched will look like fools. FOOLS
They will look like those who made it happen.
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The only problem I find is that ALL zerg ranged anti ground units are weak for their supply.
Roaches: 2 supply for 75 minerals is the lowest mineral:supply ratio in the game.
Muta: 2 supply and in straight up fights really not strong at all.
Hydra: 2 supply and only better than roaches because of higher range. in terms of DPSxHP they are the same and they are 2 supply for 80 hp which makes them really, really weak to splash damage like storm/colossus. They only barely beat marauders 1v1 and cost more (if gas>minerals which it is), add in the fact that marauders do double damage against armoured and you find that hydras really aren't that great. They are good vs gateway units because stalkers are already awful straight up and the high DPS is good for taking down zealots before they get into range. Once templar or colossus tech come in they really aren't that good.
So what units do we have that are good at 200/200?
Lings.
Ultra
Broodlord.
Lings really are good support but not good enough solo, that means a zerg army is really damn weak in terms of food until hive tech, and hive tech is limited since you already pull way ahead of food to keep up with the other dudes army cost.
I'm not claiming imbalance but I just feel like my army at 200/200 is insanely weak but maybe thats how it should be.
It seems like the lack of wide open spaces in a lot of maps like metaolopolis is the problem though. Maybe more drop play is the answer.
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blizzard seriously , with so many posts there have to be something wrong with the game..
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EPT
