|
Macro wise, once you get the hang of inject larva (hotkey queens and use the minimap) it's not too bad. The toughness comes in balancing drone vs army ofc. Lost alot of baneling bust games I thought I was way ahead due to just not making drones for 10 min.
People sayin MULEs mean Terran macro is easy clearly do not play them. If you get supply blocked as terran early game you are literally FUCKED, you simply cannot catch up in unit production, if you fall behind at any point recovering is an absolute nightmare. Compared to save up larvae and get an ovi fast it's alot more depressing.
I don't find protoss noticeably easier to play nor is my winrate any higher with them. How anyone can claim the warpgate is a convenient macro mechanic mid battle is quite frankly beyond me. Fighting, and producing a steady stream of units at the same is complete hell compared to T or Z I find.
I didn't play BW, and play random in sc2 (550 diamond) and I don't get all this emo cut wrists my race is so shit whine, change your race or man the fuck up. None of them are remotely easy to play well and all have slightly different areas of macro that are tough. Micro wise anyone saying any of them are easy is clearly bad, just wait till you play someone of any race who can actually exploit a-move.
|
On August 13 2010 00:23 SCC-Faust wrote:
I wonder when people will stop making retarded generalizations.
If you think Zerg is so hard, or Terran and Protoss is so easy, do everyone (including yourself) a favor and just make the switch. You save thread space, complaining, and time. The end.
Faust for president!
|
To fight a Terran ball, I have to...
- Place force fields in exactly the correct positions.
- Keep army well separated to mitigate EMP.
- Watch out for tiny ghosts and try to feedback them if possible.
- Place storms in optimal positions, while keeping Templar away from danger.
- Stay away from siege tanks.
- Keep zealots in front of my army, not behind, and prevent stalkers from outrunning them.
- Keep zealots from charging to idiotic locations.
- Make sure my Colossi don't get focus fired.
- Micro void rays to get them charged, if I have them.
- Micro phoenixes to pick up key units (tanks, marauders), if I have them.
- Blink away damaged stalkers.
- Continue to macro, which requires moving screen away from the battle.
To fight my Protoss ball, Terran has to...
- Select all units and press T.
- Right click on the big units.
- EMP on the shiny units.
- Run backwards when the sparkles come.
|
On August 12 2010 23:13 Ndugu wrote:
I've heard "Protoss is the easiest to play but the hardest to win with" and I agree with that statement.
Stalkers get wtfpwned by marauders and, for cost without micro, die to roaches, get owned by lings, etc. Zealots without charge lose to marauders without great force-fields. Void Rays die to marines without good control, etc.
The backbone of a Protoss army, Zealot/Stalker, loses to just about any other average army. The sentry is what makes it viable-- in that, you can only fight half an army at a time if it charges up your ramp, you can split armies, etc.
I think it is VERY interesting and sexy design that has a uniquely Protoss feel.
Stalkers are also very fast with good range, and do well with blink micro to move injured ones to the back or just move micro to keep the damaged ones out of harms way. Meanwhile, a+moved zealots are cost-effective against just about everything if you can control them well and use sentries to help them out.
The balance between zealot/stalker/sentry is just so amazingly well done. Little details like Zealots being slower without charge so that you have to manually position your army for effectiveness when moving... the better cost-effectiveness of zealots but the fact that they can be kited infinitely without sentry support-- but sentries are expensive and delay your tech....
It just feels so different than a bio-ball. It feels so different from a roach/hydra ball. ETC.
One of my favorite parts of this game. /end ejaculatory love post.
so you go zealot / stalker every single game and expect to win?
|
I am a diamond Protoss player who just started playing random yesterday after 8 consecutive random 2v2s where we were double Protoss vs. non-double-Protoss (usually TZ, which is devastating). I went 2-6, with the only victories coming when we were able to macro up to robo/templar tech. Ling/reaper rushes and mass ling/marine just owned us, even our double 4-gate push got owned due to medivacs coming out in the nick of time (owned by stim).
Anyways, both games where my choice of random rolled Terran, all I did was mass marines and marauders and A-move into the other army, and I won both games easily with the highest score. I had terrible macro, lots of extra resources in the bank, and kept getting supply blocked since I'm not used to having to use up a worker during structure building.
Anyone who says Terran isn't the easiest race (at least below the very very top level) is on crack  .
The one game I rolled Zerg, I did surprisingly okay, and was surprised just how powerful the spawn larva macro mechanic is. It's easily the most powerful macro mechanic of the 3 races, but it definitely also requires the most attention.
|
On August 13 2010 00:23 SCC-Faust wrote:
I wonder when people will stop making retarded generalizations.
If you think Zerg is so hard, or Terran and Protoss is so easy, do everyone (including yourself) a favor and just make the switch. You save thread space, complaining, and time. The end.
maybe some people enjoy a challenge buddy
|
On August 13 2010 00:58 chekthehek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 00:23 SCC-Faust wrote:
I wonder when people will stop making retarded generalizations.
If you think Zerg is so hard, or Terran and Protoss is so easy, do everyone (including yourself) a favor and just make the switch. You save thread space, complaining, and time. The end. maybe some people enjoy a challenge buddy
It's one thing to like a challenge, it's another thing to take on the perceived "challenge" and then spend all your time crying like a little girl about how unfair it all is.
|
On August 13 2010 00:58 chekthehek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 00:23 SCC-Faust wrote:
I wonder when people will stop making retarded generalizations.
If you think Zerg is so hard, or Terran and Protoss is so easy, do everyone (including yourself) a favor and just make the switch. You save thread space, complaining, and time. The end. maybe some people enjoy a challenge buddy
Then don't complain when its "too hard" ok?
|
Protoss is definitely the easiest race, I didn't keep playing it on SC2 cause it was so boring and one dimensional. People saying the contrary obviously haven't played Terran or Zerg. Mechanical wise protoss need like a third of other races apm, storms are very strong and you don't need skill to storm anymore because of the smart casting. It's all about having a decent build and game sense and you have capped protoss skill. Quite ridicolous if you ask me, but Blizzard likes to make stuff newb friendly so they hit the right spot.
|
dude the Protoss is easiest race just happened one day, and people went with it, I beleive it started back when P was most definitely OP, reavers cud rape, canons did splash? WTF!? but things changed, bw changed, balance became real, and now its sc2.
In the end there is no correct term to describe how easy, or hard any of the three races are to use. Except that they are equally as hard in their own unique ways, hence the three separate names (terran/zerg/protoss) three unique races with many of their own unique obstacles a user must overcome in order to be pro with them. (or at least half decent for the casual gamer)
|
On August 12 2010 23:41 MangoTango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 23:17 Ndugu wrote:
Generalizations are bad unless its about Terran.
Er, lol? Your entire post is OMG TERRAN OP. Stop. It's not true. (By the way, I know my icon is SCV by I'm a random player).
No? I just think Terran is the easiest. It is not as fun as Protoss for me thanks to TvT, or I would switch over for the free wins versus zerg :D
On August 13 2010 00:06 oxxo wrote:
I like how TvZ 'imbalance' hysteria has evolved into TvP 'imbalance' hysteria. If anything TvP is imbalanced the other way.
I'm not sure how the balance will be once Terran players stop playing like crap. I massively beat Terran players in ladder(diamond, like everyone else), I fare much worse in PvZ and PvP.
Somehow Terran players are under the impression that they can 1-1-1, build 5 units, and then make an expansion. They then rage when my Void Rays come to force them to leave their bunkers and then gateway units flood in and kill them. Yes, expanding is how you counter a clearly aggressive build. You sure know how to scout Mr. Scan & Expand.
The amount of incredibly greedy and bad Terran players on ladder is simply mind-numbing. 75% (scientific estimate) of my victories are because the Terran was bad, not because I was good. They charge up my ramp and let their army get split by force-field. They fast tech (1-1-1) and then expand with like 5 units to defend. I'm always amazed when I see players think that will work.
And worst of all, they refuse to build bunkers when they see you're going to playing offensively.
I'm not saying I think there is a balance issue, as I also think Protoss players have A LOT of room to improve. This game is still in its learning stages. But if Terran win percentage is lower than 50%, I'd have to say its on the Terrans.
|
Easiest race to pick up, yes. As far as easiest to play, I wouldn't go that far to say that. Also depends what you're up against. You have to remember to ignore what the community says is 'this, that'. Its best to experience for yourself. Toss has long build times. Timing chrono boosts is key, where you warp them on the map matters. Then of course you have, Storm, Force fields, and making sure Colossus does his damage, but jus at enough range.
They are strong but keeping a toss unit alive is more important than terran or zerg, because you have so few, and they're so expensive; And its not like they can move fast. I'd say micro'ing toss can depend on the situation in terms of hard it can be.
Zerg has more than just a-move In sc2, You still have to micro them, they can get bunched up and miss out on maximum damage. For them micro'ing positioning is key: ramps, surrounds, large fights where big units could force them to miss out on dmagae just because of where they're standing etc..
I would just read Sentient's post on things you have to keep in mind, even though Im not a toss player myself.
|
On August 13 2010 01:00 shwaffles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 00:58 chekthehek wrote:On August 13 2010 00:23 SCC-Faust wrote:
I wonder when people will stop making retarded generalizations.
If you think Zerg is so hard, or Terran and Protoss is so easy, do everyone (including yourself) a favor and just make the switch. You save thread space, complaining, and time. The end. maybe some people enjoy a challenge buddy Then don't complain when its "too hard" ok?
hmm, looks i am getting bashed on, put where do i say its too hard?
where do i say zerg is unbalanced? oh? i never said it in this thread?
|
On August 13 2010 00:55 Sentient wrote:
To fight a Terran ball, I have to...
- Place force fields in exactly the correct positions.
- Keep army well separated to mitigate EMP.
- Watch out for tiny ghosts and try to feedback them if possible.
- Place storms in optimal positions, while keeping Templar away from danger.
- Stay away from siege tanks.
- Keep zealots in front of my army, not behind, and prevent stalkers from outrunning them.
- Keep zealots from charging to idiotic locations.
- Make sure my Colossi don't get focus fired.
- Micro void rays to get them charged, if I have them.
- Micro phoenixes to pick up key units (tanks, marauders), if I have them.
- Blink away damaged stalkers.
- Continue to macro, which requires moving screen away from the battle.
To fight my Protoss ball, Terran has to...
- Select all units and press T.
- Right click on the big units.
- EMP on the shiny units.
- Run backwards when the sparkles come.
I agreed on all counts. I'd also add that warp gate macro-ing isn't as easy as many claim here. Considering how micro intensive protoss units are already, to have to go back to base to warp in units is a big deal. A lot of people mass more warp gates than they need and get delusional about how easy it is to macro with toss.
The inability to queue unit production makes a very big difference in being able to macro on the dot. If you've seen some of Nony's phoenix builds. He macros off of 2 WP and a single SG until he takes his expansion. We already know phoenix is a really micro intensive unit, and on top of that you have to time your warp gate cool down timings to come back and macro up. He had to do it in a very timely fashion to keep his resources low while lifting units left and right. I personally need 3 warp gates because I don't have the APM to macro well on 2.
Protoss is NOT easy to play well. In SCBW I'd recommend Protoss to a newbie, not in SC2. I'd usually tell them to play Terran because it's easy for them to defend early game and they won't lose to as many rushes.
|
|
|
On August 13 2010 00:23 SCC-Faust wrote:
I wonder when people will stop making retarded generalizations.
If you think Zerg is so hard, or Terran and Protoss is so easy, do everyone (including yourself) a favor and just make the switch. You save thread space, complaining, and time. The end.
Wisdom deserves quotation.
|
Protoss might be the easiest to learn initially but I think the reason they get such a bad rap in sc2 is because of the ease and effectiveness of a 4/5 gate allin.
I play soooo many toss on ladder that have a really good 4/5 gate allin and that's ALL THEY DO EVER. So they are pretty bad players but they have a decent win % due to exploiting 1 easy build really well. So if you're good enough to stop a 4 gate allin, you win everytime vs. these types of players cause they haven't tried to learn anything else due to the ease and effectiveness of this 1 build.
|
|
|
On August 13 2010 00:55 Sentient wrote:
To fight a Terran ball, I have to...
- Place force fields in exactly the correct positions.
- Keep army well separated to mitigate EMP.
- Watch out for tiny ghosts and try to feedback them if possible.
- Place storms in optimal positions, while keeping Templar away from danger.
- Stay away from siege tanks.
- Keep zealots in front of my army, not behind, and prevent stalkers from outrunning them.
- Keep zealots from charging to idiotic locations.
- Make sure my Colossi don't get focus fired.
- Micro void rays to get them charged, if I have them.
- Micro phoenixes to pick up key units (tanks, marauders), if I have them.
- Blink away damaged stalkers.
- Continue to macro, which requires moving screen away from the battle.
To fight my Protoss ball, Terran has to...
- Select all units and press T.
- Right click on the big units.
- EMP on the shiny units.
- Run backwards when the sparkles come.
LMAO, aparently protoss uses every possible unit they have while terran only uses MMG. You should make the same list while terran is
- Flanking with helions
- Sniping collus with vikings
- Place PDD where you cant just run away
- Leapfroging with tanks
- Making sure marines arent in front of marauders
- Never making a mistake or forcefield can cost you the game
- Making sure medivacs dont fly into you army when microing the bio ball around.
etc. etc.
Such lists are just stupid and easily biased, especially if you decide to have one race use 3 units and the other use every unit they can.
I go 1 1 1 into ghost mech so I'm not really that experienced with Bio vs toss. But I do know if you mess up with the siege tanks, chargelots and blink stalkers make short work of your army. Oh and helions can be pretty much useless or have an insane dmg output based of your micro.
I really think alle the 3 races have a lot of micro to them. People saying zerg or terran bio can just A-move are probably not in mid diamond or higher. People there will punish you incredible hard if you do such a thing. The terran doom pushes are getting harder and harder to pull off since zergs will have units comming from every single angle possible the second they see the opportunity.
I really cant say which race has the most micro, but dont think that MOAR SPELLS = MOAR MICRO
|
On August 13 2010 01:15 btANgeL.twn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 00:55 Sentient wrote:
To fight a Terran ball, I have to...
- Place force fields in exactly the correct positions.
- Keep army well separated to mitigate EMP.
- Watch out for tiny ghosts and try to feedback them if possible.
- Place storms in optimal positions, while keeping Templar away from danger.
- Stay away from siege tanks.
- Keep zealots in front of my army, not behind, and prevent stalkers from outrunning them.
- Keep zealots from charging to idiotic locations.
- Make sure my Colossi don't get focus fired.
- Micro void rays to get them charged, if I have them.
- Micro phoenixes to pick up key units (tanks, marauders), if I have them.
- Blink away damaged stalkers.
- Continue to macro, which requires moving screen away from the battle.
To fight my Protoss ball, Terran has to...
- Select all units and press T.
- Right click on the big units.
- EMP on the shiny units.
- Run backwards when the sparkles come. I agreed on all counts. I'd also add that warp gate macro-ing isn't as easy as many claim here. Considering how micro intensive protoss units are already, to have to go back to base to warp in units is a big deal. A lot of people mass more warp gates than they need and get delusional about how easy it is to macro with toss. The inability to queue unit production makes a very big difference in being able to macro on the dot. If you've seen some of Nony's phoenix builds. He macros off of 2 WP and a single SG until he takes his expansion. We already know phoenix is a really micro intensive unit, and on top of that you have to time your warp gate cool down timings to come back and macro up. He had to do it in a very timely fashion to keep his resources low while lifting units left and right. I personally need 3 warp gates because I don't have the APM to macro well on 2. Protoss is NOT easy to play well. In SCBW I'd recommend Protoss to a newbie, not in SC2. I'd usually tell them to play Terran because it's easy for them to defend early game and they won't lose to as many rushes.
I also fully agree with this. Don't underestimate the effect of being able to queue up to 5 (or more with a reactor) units at once. This saves so many APM when compared to warpgates it's not even funny. Add to that the crazy amount of micro required by protoss to be able to compete with a M&M ball (where 1A->S is enough to own anyone without excellent micro or 6 colossi) and Terran is very clearly easier than Protoss.
I switched from Protoss to Random as of yesterday, and the 3 games I played as Terran were easy even though I've never used them before and made many large macro errors. 2 games I massed rax units, 1 game I rushed banshees, all games were won easily with essentially no danger. I'm excited to play more, the diversity Random gives you is fun. But it really opened my eyes to how easy it is to win with Terran.
I also experienced that Zerg isn't as bad as everyone says, though (though I didn't play ZvT so maybe that's why).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
