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On August 09 2010 12:08 KhAlleB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 12:07 Archerofaiur wrote:On August 09 2010 12:02 KhAlleB wrote:
for a zerg t2.5 200 hp is alot imo We need some way to corrdinate feedback. Blizzard collects stats. We should too. this is hard to get data from game against AI, and no 1 join because this map isnt ''popular''
We can figure something out. Things like hp are prolly left till later but what we could do is have people pair up and play at certain times. So say for deciding whether it should be a roach or hydra evolution we can have players play with both mods and than vote in polls like this (example)
Poll: Should the Lurker be a hydra or roach evolution? Roach (57) 72% Hydra (22) 28% 79 total votes Your vote: Should the Lurker be a hydra or roach evolution? (Vote): Hydra
(Vote): Roach
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one day i plan to revert all units from brood war to their broodwar stats/etc and restore all the terran units from editor (so vulture replacing hellion)
also change the vulture so it drops mines underneath it. instead of having a targetted cast range (this pissed me off in the campaign. i hated using vultures because of this)
but that wont be for awhile since i just started a new map...
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Although its fantastic to play with lurkers I have to say after 10 matches t3 is just too high.
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My Lurker Suggestion:
Lurker:
* Morphs from Roach
* Requirements:
- Lair
- Roach Warren
- Lurker Aspect research at Roach Warren (100min, 100gas, 60 second)
* Cost:
- 50 minerals
- 125 gas
- 1 food
- (to a total of 75+50 = 125minerals, 25+125 = 150gas, 2+1= 3 population)
* Damage:
- 15 + 10 (Armored)
- Cooldown: 1.7
- Upgrades: 2 + 2 (Armored)
- Range 7 + 2 (Upgrade at Hive)
* Armor: 1 (+1)
- Health: 150
- Modifier: Biological
* Movement Speed
- On ground: 3.3
- Underground: 0 (+0.9)
* Upgrades affecting the unit:
- Zerg Missile Attacks: gives +2 normal dmg and +2 vs Armored extra damage
- Zerg Carapace: gives +1 Armor
- Tunneling Claws: Gives the Lurker the Ability to move underground at a speed of 0.9 and 5hp/sec regeneration
- Extended Spines (at Roach Warren, requires Hive): Increases Lurker Attack Range by 2.
I believe these numbers will make the unit slightly overpowered but they are the ones I would like to try out.
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K, thats not difficult, ill try....
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A map with these at t2.5 would be great to try out. =)
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On August 09 2010 15:26 Zergling4life wrote:
K, thats not difficult, ill try....
tell me when you're done with it with the name... i'll call my protoss and terran friend and we'll test your map at the 600ish diamond level 
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On August 09 2010 15:56 Sealteam wrote:
A map with these at t2.5 would be great to try out. =)
....I made one yesterday with Lurker at 2.5....
Check the op to see how to play it.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50600 Posts
If you want I'll upload it on EU I just need the mod files since I already downloaded the map files.
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FEEDBACK:
release this frkn mod on the EU server!!!!!
or give people the things they need to upload it on the eu server!!!!
wanna play this sooo hard...
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I agree, I would love to try this on EU
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that would be pretty neato to try out
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On August 09 2010 17:23 Konsume wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 15:26 Zergling4life wrote:
K, thats not difficult, ill try.... tell me when you're done with it with the name... i'll call my protoss and terran friend and we'll test your map at the 600ish diamond level
If you keep track of some stats (player, rank, race, who won) and post them here ill start a spreadsheet for everyone.
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So what we did was just to play 7 games in a row me being the zerg currently @ 557 diamond, the protoss is currently 601 and the terran is currently 590.
Zerg vs Protoss : 4win - 3lost
Zerg vs Terran : 2win - 5lost
Zerg vs Zerg : I can't see any use for him
Basicaly...
vs protoss since we're going hydra anyways it's a good thing to get lurker. But terran just put too much pressure for us to use lurker efficiently and it's actualy rare that you'll get hydras in 1v1 vs a terran, in any case I forced myseft to go lurker vs terran to see what it did.
Also we did a test and I was sure that lurkers would own hellions and create some sort of "no go zone for the hellions" but in fact it's the other way around. lurkers just don't do enough damage to create this no go zone. At the price of 100-50 for the idra and than 50-100 makes a units of 150-150 3 pop... I would think it would do just a bit more damage. Remember that for 150 gaz I could get an infestor that would do pretty much more damage. Agreed the infestor isn't stealth/burrow but still... 1 fungal of an infestor that cost less and cripple my supplies a bit less will do more damage than a full serie of lurkers.
that being said... it's good vs protoss but i've seen barely no use vs terran or in ZvZ
Also 150sec to get the lurker den? it's 2min30.... tanks are getting at your door even before you can start doing lurkers (we tested it). seems a bit too much.... you already need to get the hydra den which is 40sec + 150sec = 3min10sec thats alot... add the gaz cost of the unit and structure... it would be kinda bad.....
Here are my suggestions
- Lower the transformation of the luker den to 80sec makings the hydralisk 40sec + lurker 80sec
Why? By the time you'll get lurker protoss will have enough time to get an observer and terran just has to scan. Also... it will just get out in time to fight the 1st tanks!
OR
- Keep it the way it is and make it a roache transformation requiring lair. This way you'll be able to set your roache warren before the lair and as soon as lair pops you'll be ready to start the transformation.
- Also tranforming for roaches will see more use in ZvT and ZvZ cause you'll normaly get roaches in both of those matchups. The reason why lurkers aren't used in ZvT and ZvZ is simply cause ZvT = almost no hydra and ZvZ is if you go hydra is cause you're being in mutalisk production... basicaly making it from roaches would see more use vs T and Z.
My 5 cents
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On August 10 2010 04:07 Konsume wrote:So what we did was just to play 7 games in a row me being the zerg currently @ 557 diamond, the protoss is currently 601 and the terran is currently 590. Zerg vs Protoss : 4win - 3lost Zerg vs Terran : 2win - 5lost Zerg vs Zerg : I can't see any use for him Basicaly... vs protoss since we're going hydra anyways it's a good thing to get lurker. But terran just put too much pressure for us to use lurker efficiently and it's actualy rare that you'll get hydras in 1v1 vs a terran, in any case I forced myseft to go lurker vs terran to see what it did. Also we did a test and I was sure that lurkers would own hellions and create some sort of "no go zone for the hellions" but in fact it's the other way around. lurkers just don't do enough damage to create this no go zone. At the price of 100-50 for the idra and than 50-100 makes a units of 150-150 3 pop... I would think it would do just a bit more damage. Remember that for 150 gaz I could get an infestor that would do pretty much more damage. Agreed the infestor isn't stealth/burrow but still... 1 fungal of an infestor that cost less and cripple my supplies a bit less will do more damage than a full serie of lurkers. that being said... it's good vs protoss but i've seen barely no use vs terran or in ZvZ Also 150sec to get the lurker den? it's 2min30.... tanks are getting at your door even before you can start doing lurkers (we tested it). seems a bit too much.... you already need to get the hydra den which is 40sec + 150sec = 3min10sec thats alot... add the gaz cost of the unit and structure... it would be kinda bad..... Here are my suggestions - Lower the transformation of the luker den to 80sec makings the hydralisk 40sec + lurker 80sec Why? By the time you'll get lurker protoss will have enough time to get an observer and terran just has to scan. Also... it will just get out in time to fight the 1st tanks! OR - Keep it the way it is and make it a roache transformation requiring lair. This way you'll be able to set your roache warren before the lair and as soon as lair pops you'll be ready to start the transformation. - Also tranforming for roaches will see more use in ZvT and ZvZ cause you'll normaly get roaches in both of those matchups. The reason why lurkers aren't used in ZvT and ZvZ is simply cause ZvT = almost no hydra and ZvZ is if you go hydra is cause you're being in mutalisk production... basicaly making it from roaches would see more use vs T and Z. My 5 cents
Great stuff. Ill start working up the spread sheet. And Ill add a note that these games were played with hydra evolution and a 150 sec lurker den.
Im liking your suggestions about making it roach evo. It adds a llot of pull for seeing it in more match ups. Also it doesnt really lock out the hydra since if you go roaches and then lurker you still have a lack of anti air that the opponent can capatilize on.
On the topic of lore, I checked in the Broodwar manual and it only mentions just once that the Lurkers are "bred from the hydralisk strain". It doesnt say specifically that it was an assimilated from a hydralisk-related breed (like how the gaurdian was the mutalisk nesting form.
As much as it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to change the lurker from a hydralisk to roach evolution its wouldnt even require a real retcon. They could just put the lines "Kerrigan's new breed of lurkers are morphed from roach DNA. "
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hm maybe sacrificing a rooster would speed up publishing this map on eu...
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As much as it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to change the lurker from a hydralisk to roach evolution its wouldnt even require a real retcon. Just be honest, the lurker while fantastic is a mid game transitional unit not a late game powerhouse. Thats why roaches deserve the spot as lurker morph units.
So if you could just remove the burrowregen and put the lurker morph there while keeping the damage relatively unchanged, perhaps even make it so that lurkers benefit from the same regen as roaches?
Maybe 35 against armored?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i34.tinypic.com/2m3flso.gif)
