Well I though of a nice trick,but I don't know if it has any use.. 1.Nydus Your opponent. 2. Transfer small force and burrow it around Nydus. 3. If You're not scanned,just let Your enemy kill the Nydus. (Send second small force to make him sure he has dealt with it) 4. Wait till he's near Your base. 5. Bonus points if Your small force was about 5-6 roaches w/ burrow move. Mineral Line /gg
Burrow positioning can be really helpful. Imagine You just saw push coming out. You can quickly burrow/move some roaches in place where they will be able to backstab enemy force. Burrow 2-3 units all around creep. When he is here,attack him with Your small force left,unburrow back stab roaches and other forces. If he thought his force would do this... he was wrong.
On August 05 2010 08:05 GaussWaffle wrote: Assuming Overseers have the same energy recharge rate as sentries, a Zerg player could potentially get 5-6 Overseres, park them outside the opponents base, and constantly corrupt upgrade buildings or key unit producing buildings (you could stop tank production...stop immoral/colossus production...)
It's purely theory craft and is very gas intensive in the early going, but I'll give it a shot and see if it has any merit
Also, if you corrupt assimilators, do they become unminable for the duration?
There's nothing stopping him from just building more production facilities, whereas you're wasted 600 gas to stall either 1 Thor (60 game second build time) or 1.5 tanks (40 game second build time), considering adding another factory takes like 60 game seconds to build.
I wish everyone had the OP's mindset of stop QQing and play.
Also, aside from the extreme gas cost, the reason why nyduses aren't used much is that the rush distance in most Blizzard maps is so small
I also wish the maps wernt so small for a number of reasons One being that it would def make Nydus' more viable. There is a lot of potential for Nydus that I would love to see people start using at a high level.
lately I've been using a roach/ling heavy army against especially mech terran. The Idea is spending very low gas but still having a nice ground army. As soon as you hit lair, you upgrade overlord speed and transport. And start attacking the terran both from the front and from the back with ling/roach and maybe some baneling. Depending on what he does, you can continue the same way or start spending the gas thats been filling up on either mutas or more banelings or whatever. I find this to be a very strong midgame strategy. Here are a few replays, I'm only 300~ ish diamond player but you will get the idea.
1. Upgrade ovie sacs and speed. 2. Load Queen. 3. Move to untaken mineral expos of opponent. 4. Ovie generate creep, Queen makes creep tumor. 5. Spread the creep tumors with the regenerating ability. 6. Repeat at all other expos.
Best used against Terran since they need to have a scan to remove the creep tumor. If they get a Raven, it's high up on the tech tree and requires a bit of gas to make as well. You can even sneak a drop into the main of the Terran, lay down 1 - 3 tumors and spread them one at a time into the Terran's base. You'll get scouting, him wasting gas for a raven, or him wasting a scan. If you spread them one at a time and you lay like 3 tumors, you can make him waste 3 scans :D
If you do this early enough, his base is gonna have a bunch creep that he can't build on. And it set you up for a drop where the creep will give you a huge advantage if he doesn't do anything about it.
that means build two nydus networks since one network can only build one worm at a time.
kinda pricy.
though i've had an idea for a while to hide expansions far away and use a nydus network. would prolly make defending it much easier since you can pick any expansion this way and not be forced to get the one with cliffs and such to abuse and big open chokes and then use another worm more like a protoss would put up a pylon close to the enemy base but not so close that they'll destroy it, so if he goes to kill my expansion i'll just push him back with a few hydras/roaches and then use the nydus worm i put up to get my army back into position to attack his natural/other expo etc.
Correction - the game is going to be balanced all the time; sure not with the intensity of the Beta, but tweaking values is perfectly normal to be expected multiple times before expansions.
@Saracen: how do you get infestors so early?
I'd just say zergs need to apply more banelings (efficiently!), more burrow, and more active use of overlords and overseers - for scouting (including passive; with height advantage), spreading the creep, hiding armies, contamination. The latter especially in the following way: prepare enough overseers near his bases; attack with your main force, trade armies; rebuild, simultaneously contaminate all his production facilities, if possible two times in a row; attack again and this time (auto)win. Main zerg advice is to play a lot and learn very well the sense of how many units you need, in order to dominate certain army compositions you face. Avoid trading battles in which you will just give away too many easy units, and kill almost nothing. This just requires experience. Also playing with the other two races helps. In most cases you win by escaping from a battle, until you get the critical number of units to win it. That's to be expected, since Zerg increases army so quickly; it's normal to expect the balance of the game to be such that you are required to gather a ton of units first. Otherwise it would have been just ridiculously easy to play as Zerg.
On August 05 2010 07:37 Slayer91 wrote: Funsies: Step 1: Make banelings Step 2: Upgrade overlord drop. Step 3: Drop 4 in each mineral line boom boom bye bye scvs! Step 4: Drop over his marines using the baneling carpet bomb trick from psyonic reaver's youtube and then SZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZSSSSZ OMGWTFBBQ!!
I'd just like to say I highly doubt we "won't see any changes until HotS." I expect the game to be patched, albeit not quite as often, regularly. HotS won't come out for quite a while I would imagine so if imbalances do exist, Blizzard will most likely patch them.
On August 05 2010 08:05 GaussWaffle wrote: Assuming Overseers have the same energy recharge rate as sentries, a Zerg player could potentially get 5-6 Overseres, park them outside the opponents base, and constantly corrupt upgrade buildings or key unit producing buildings (you could stop tank production...stop immoral/colossus production...)
It's purely theory craft and is very gas intensive in the early going, but I'll give it a shot and see if it has any merit
Also, if you corrupt assimilators, do they become unminable for the duration?
There's nothing stopping him from just building more production facilities, whereas you're wasted 600 gas to stall either 1 Thor (60 game second build time) or 1.5 tanks (40 game second build time), considering adding another factory takes like 60 game seconds to build.
The bigger problem is how close Overseers need to get to even cast it on the factory. Usually mine come out after casting with <50% hp.
On August 05 2010 09:06 FabledIntegral wrote: I'd just like to say I highly doubt we "won't see any changes until HotS." I expect the game to be patched, albeit not quite as often, regularly. HotS won't come out for quite a while I would imagine so if imbalances do exist, Blizzard will most likely patch them.
On August 05 2010 08:05 GaussWaffle wrote: Assuming Overseers have the same energy recharge rate as sentries, a Zerg player could potentially get 5-6 Overseres, park them outside the opponents base, and constantly corrupt upgrade buildings or key unit producing buildings (you could stop tank production...stop immoral/colossus production...)
It's purely theory craft and is very gas intensive in the early going, but I'll give it a shot and see if it has any merit
Also, if you corrupt assimilators, do they become unminable for the duration?
There's nothing stopping him from just building more production facilities, whereas you're wasted 600 gas to stall either 1 Thor (60 game second build time) or 1.5 tanks (40 game second build time), considering adding another factory takes like 60 game seconds to build.
The bigger problem is how close Overseers need to get to even cast it on the factory. Usually mine come out after casting with <50% hp.
Sorry this wasn't productive!
I heard some where that HotS isn't coming out until another one and half years, but take it with a grain of salt. As for the overseer strategy, all player have to do is build their buildings closer to their army and away from cliffs.
although i do like the thought behind this and the idea of working it, it is just too costly to attempt in a serious game, imagine the damage you could do with this double nydus, or the damage you could do with 30 banelings (thats roughly the cost, isnt it?), i would love to see the price of worms lowered so they see useage in games, because right now it is just way too expensive of a unit that dies very quickly
On August 05 2010 07:52 Saracen wrote: All of this has been covered before. Everything here is too much of an investment and too hard to get out in a timely manner once you start playing at higher levels. Sure, they're fun to use once I've secured an advantage, but they're not standard builds I'm going to be relying on for consistency (and yes, if you're going to be doing these strats consistently, you *do* need a standard build that caters to them).
This really does to be stressed. I don't post much on TL because I don't have viable answers to the questions that are asked. I'm not saying that no one should post, I just choose not to say much when I know my answer is rarely if ever useful.
I wish people were forced to show their elo and league or something of the sort when posting. Like poker, as you move up less and less things become effective and viable. In gold, perhaps building 2 nydus networks and using them both simultaneously is a great strat. Past that however, it's unlikely to be seen unless a weird circumstance occurs.
I don't like people who say things such as 'Well have you seen any motherships in competitive play?! Obviously not! They're underpowered and need a buff!' Statements like that are both true and false. Perhaps it is underpowered, but even if their was a build that somehow was able to highlight all of it's strengths, a counter build would likely be developed, so on and so on. Thus, the beauty of a RTS game. However, what we must realize and think about are things that could possibly prevent our little trick or strat from working. Ok..so I have a plan to build up an army..use 2 nydus worms and he loses his natural or a majority of his supply depots and production buildings. What if for the next 25 games, you can't even tech to lair because your opponents are so aggressive. What if in these same games you could have won if you would've made 6 more zerglings and moved in with them?
There's more I should write about but thinking of the correct words to use is quite taxing.
TLDR: Different strategies work in different leagues. What works in silver may not work in plat. When thinking of productive things try to think of the bigger picture and how your strategy could be foiled before you're even able to utilize it.
Something productive: Almost always get ling speed.
On August 05 2010 08:29 Calamity wrote: You can even sneak a drop into the main of the Terran, lay down 1 - 3 tumors and spread them one at a time into the Terran's base. You'll get scouting, him wasting gas for a raven, or him wasting a scan.
He's more likely to pull an unit over and kill the tumor while it's being laid down.
On August 05 2010 07:52 Saracen wrote: EDIT: I guess I can contribute, though. On maps with open naturals, burrow an infestor and run it to your opponent's base. When he moves out, pop as many infested terrans as you can into his mineral line. It doesn't work on maps like LT because he'll have cannons or a turret at his natural and you can't just go around them, but it's definitely possible depending on his turret/cannon positioning on, say, Metalopolis or Desert Oasis. And it's easily one of the cheaper harassment strategies (100/100 for burrow, 100/150 for infestor).
I feel like map design for this is exceedingly awkward. Because a map with an open natural also makes deflecting Hellion harass extremely hard, and Hellions seem like they're far more relevant.
On August 05 2010 07:37 Slayer91 wrote: Funsies: Step 1: Make banelings Step 2: Upgrade overlord drop. Step 3: Drop 4 in each mineral line boom boom bye bye scvs! Step 4: Drop over his marines using the baneling carpet bomb trick from psyonic reaver's youtube and then SZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZSSSSZ OMGWTFBBQ!!
On August 05 2010 08:05 GaussWaffle wrote: Assuming Overseers have the same energy recharge rate as sentries, a Zerg player could potentially get 5-6 Overseres, park them outside the opponents base, and constantly corrupt upgrade buildings or key unit producing buildings (you could stop tank production...stop immoral/colossus production...)
It's purely theory craft and is very gas intensive in the early going, but I'll give it a shot and see if it has any merit
Also, if you corrupt assimilators, do they become unminable for the duration?
depending on mana regen time, you may only need 2-3 if he has one factory? I cant remember mana cost at the moment
On August 05 2010 08:05 GaussWaffle wrote: Assuming Overseers have the same energy recharge rate as sentries, a Zerg player could potentially get 5-6 Overseres, park them outside the opponents base, and constantly corrupt upgrade buildings or key unit producing buildings (you could stop tank production...stop immoral/colossus production...)
It's purely theory craft and is very gas intensive in the early going, but I'll give it a shot and see if it has any merit
Also, if you corrupt assimilators, do they become unminable for the duration?
depending on mana regen time, you may only need 2-3 if he has one factory? I cant remember mana cost at the moment
Ive wanted to try to nydus in the middle of the map furthest from his base so if he pushes my main i can split my force in 2 and attack from the back and front. Hopefully killing colossi or tanks if they are undefended. Havent done it yet tho
i'm a terran player, but let me contribute to zerg. these aren't theorycrafting btw. it's stuff that's been used against me by zerg, that every zerg should do.
* when you hit lair, hide your spire or hydra den by having an overlord spawn creep somewhere and building it under ur lord. zerg players need to know that every time a terran player uses scan, it costs us 280 minerals. contrary to common belief, it's very hard for a terran to scout. This is so important for later games too. zerg typically has map control, so it's so hard for terran to scout zerg's tech except with scan which costs us 280 per cast. so have all your tech structures spread out under overlords so i can't see it all with one scan. when terran doesn't have good recon on what zerg is getting, it fucking sucks. especially for hive tech. hide your infestor mound, ultra cavern, i'd say even fucking make a second spire that you can hidden broodlord tech. if ur infestor mound is hidden, i wont be able to know ur going hive until u have it done. hidden spire upgrade too.
* use your overlord to spawn creep at our expansion. when ur overlord gets chased off, it still takes upwards of half a minute for your creep to recede so we can build our command center there (or land our command center.) this is extremely annoying for our timings.
* your first overlord should be parked outside my gas to see when i build my gas. my gas timing gives away a lot information about what build order i'm doing.
EPT
One being that it would def make Nydus' more viable. There is a lot of potential for Nydus that I would love to see people start using at a high level.
