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You know something? Today I've replied to many Zerg-is-underpowered threads, agreeing a little bit with some, not agreeing with others.
But you know something? The Beta already happened. It's over. The Beta existed so that the game could be balanced, and now that it's over, it's likely we won't see any of the buffs we whine for, and likely won't see any changes until at least HoTS.
So in the meantime, I've created this thread so we Zerg players can be...
PRODUCTIVE!
Instead of raging about Zerg's supposed weaknesses, let's all put our minds into one big theorycrafting hive, and think of what kinds of new things we can do with the Zerg we currently have and probably will for a very long time. Crazy strategies, new ways for using units and spells and abilities that we aren't taking full advantage of, maybe overcome some of Zerg's current problems.
So, without further ado, I present to you my theorycrafting!
Here's an idea I've been throwing around in my head. It has to do with Nydus Worms. Yes, Nydus Worms, those things we hate because they take so long to build and to be killed and we generally use them as a sort of replacement for a big overlord drop. I call it a nydus fork, because, like a chess fork, it forces the opponent to make a decision. He's bound to lose something, he just has to chose what.
So here's how it works. Instead of building one nydus worm, you build TWO. See my trickery? I don't mean build two right next to each other, but I mean build two in very different areas of his territory. You have your units loaded up into the worm. You watch and see his reaction. Even if he scouts both worms, Watch which one he goes for, and just pop your army right out of the other. Do your damage, and retreat. What if decides to split his army to deal with them both? Easy, you only have half an army to worry about now. If he comes back and hasn't killed the other worm, just pop right back out of that and do even more damage. Well, you only have half of an army to fight, you can overwhelm it. Now, I know this strategy won't work all the time, but hey. It seems like it'd work in some situations, especially mech.
Well, now that I've contributed my share for now, go forth my fellow Zerg players, and try to be productive. Just try to think of something that hasn't been done before, don't think too hard about viability. Strategies are born rough, and refined overtime.
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I like you.
As a P player, I've always found burrow to be underused. P almost always goes 2gaterobo, meaning he expands late.
Giving you enough time to burrow a couple banelings at his natural. Sure, it's somewhat of a longshot, but consider this:
You come into his main, somehow. Whether drops, air, nydus. You do some damage. He sends his probes/scvs to his newly made natural. You now have ALL his probes...over a bunch of banelings. You just won the game. Thoughts?
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Funsies:
Step 1: Make banelings
Step 2: Upgrade overlord drop.
Step 3: Drop 4 in each mineral line boom boom bye bye scvs!
Step 4: Drop over his marines using the baneling carpet bomb trick from psyonic reaver's youtube and then SZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZSSSSZ
OMGWTFBBQ!!
This actually is seriously good against terran.
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i really like that double nydus strat... if i saw it used i'd really think high of that player in terms of strategy that is fairly creative thinking which is exactly what we need, a Terran player here but i like where your going with this and support it if i come up with any idea's i'll be sure to post here
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I want to see someone do this:
1. Make banelings
2. Do not baneling bust
3. Research burrow
4. Burrow banelings at natural expansion in the mineral line
5. Once workers get transferred, press x
6. Laugh mercilessly!!!
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What stops the other player just A-move your base while you are trying to do some cute tricky stuff with nydus? He is going to lose some but you are going to lose it all. Also the 200 gas is quite a lot so you would really have to use them succesfully.
But I agree with you that we really should but our minds together to find something. Now nydus worms are very underused but then again they are very situational "units". I would prefer if we would find some early way to apply the pressure, not just try to survive it.
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On August 05 2010 07:40 Piski wrote:
What stops the other player just A-move your base while you are trying to do some cute tricky stuff with nydus? He is going to lose some but you are going to lose it all. Also the 200 gas is quite a lot so you would really have to use them succesfully..
Then you just instantly retreat right back out of the nydus network in your base and be there waiting for him =D
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The problem with that idea is that you can only spawn one exit from a nydus network at a time (Read: while the first exit is still building). So for this to work you would need two nydus networks plus 2 exits and that gets very gas intensive. I think that would be like 600 gas(?) for something that may or may not work. I'm not too sure on costs.
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i thought this was a really cool strat that was used against me, maybe it can be incorperated into your double nydus trick if it failed to work a first time or you had trouble deploying the nydus
+ Show Spoiler +
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Here's an idea, make zerg have 250 max food instead of 200, it feels more zergy like quantity over quality. And if this is too imba, make it an upgrade at hive
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This is used already but really needs to be a main strat/tactic of zergs. Sending an infestor and burrowing it and going to their mineral line. Either you can take out like 10 scvs over time/right away or they waste a scan on a single infestor. Then they have to get it too. Pretty good deal, no?
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In my experience baneling dropping a mineral line is a bad idea, or at least very risky. The problem is that dropped banelings explode very fast, as in it's near impossible to give them much in the way of commands. If your opponent pulls workers in time there's a good chance your banelings are going to auto-attack in some horrible horrible way that doesn't net you much. I find it much better to drop mostly ling/roach with maybe 2 banelings mixed in.
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On August 05 2010 07:45 Tazza wrote:
Here's an idea, make zerg have 250 max food instead of 200, it feels more zergy like quantity over quality. And if this is too imba, make it an upgrade at hive
I love how I create a thread so that people can discuss tactics with Zerg AS IT CURRENTLY IS and you go on talking about making balance changes, which is exactly what I created this thread not to do.
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All of this has been covered before. Everything here is too much of an investment and too hard to get out in a timely manner once you start playing at higher levels. Sure, they're fun to use once I've secured an advantage, but they're not standard builds I'm going to be relying on for consistency (and yes, if you're going to be doing these strats consistently, you *do* need a standard build that caters to them).
EDIT: I guess I can contribute, though. On maps with open naturals, burrow an infestor and run it to your opponent's base. When he moves out, pop as many infested terrans as you can into his mineral line. It doesn't work on maps like LT because he'll have cannons or a turret at his natural and you can't just go around them, but it's definitely possible depending on his turret/cannon positioning on, say, Metalopolis or Desert Oasis. And it's easily one of the cheaper harassment strategies (100/100 for burrow, 100/150 for infestor).
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On August 05 2010 07:37 Slayer91 wrote:
Funsies:
Step 1: Make banelings
Step 2: Upgrade overlord drop.
Step 3: Drop 4 in each mineral line boom boom bye bye scvs!
Step 4: Drop over his marines using the baneling carpet bomb trick from psyonic reaver's youtube and then SZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZSSSSZ
OMGWTFBBQ!!
This actually is seriously good against terran.
Motherf....
*crosses out 6 rax build from TvZ section*
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in late mid game and in late game its actually really good to drop some banes, to kill workers, you can hurt his economy really well
its not a thing that should be done in early stages of the game, i've done that and its always hilarious 
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I like the idea, and I've actually messed around with it quite a bit. Haven't been able to get it to work effectively though, unit's just come out of the worm way too slow.
Have any replays?
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I have actually been thinking a lot about different ways to use Nydus worms. The Nydus fork is something I did think about for a short time, but I have mostly been pondering about the effectiveness of using an entire Nydus Network. The idea came from watching some Zerg on DO (I think it may have been Sen) absolutely out maneuvering a Protoss player simply by having worms everywhere. He was able to pop in and out of different worms and do quick damage and the Toss was almost helpless. I've been wanting to learn to use it and practice with it, but it will take a while before I'm skilled enough to use it to decent effectiveness.
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Also, aside from the extreme gas cost, the reason why nyduses aren't used much is that the rush distance in most Blizzard maps is so small that if you nydus his main while he's moving out, he just ignores it and counters yours and kills it faster while your units are still coming out one at a time. And you don't have any defensive units like the lurker/defiler to stall this.
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Assuming Overseers have the same energy recharge rate as sentries, a Zerg player could potentially get 5-6 Overseres, park them outside the opponents base, and constantly corrupt upgrade buildings or key unit producing buildings (you could stop tank production...stop immoral/colossus production...)
It's purely theory craft and is very gas intensive in the early going, but I'll give it a shot and see if it has any merit
Also, if you corrupt assimilators, do they become unminable for the duration?
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EPT
