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On August 06 2010 03:54 wizerd wrote:
this would add a lot more dynamic to tvz, but what about tvp, since protoss's only mobile cloak is the observer. this would ruin any non-robo first builds. or would it come out late enough? i don't play toss so i don't know timings.
I believe Lurker was hive tech. So I highly doubt it. Especially considering that observers are more readily available in SC2 than BW.
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Lurkers were Lair Tech in BW, and ya since Detection was a bit easier in BW Lurkers could wreck some serious havok in say how ZvZ is played.
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Blizzard made a huge error in not including the lurker.
In BW when the lurker was introduced it filled like 3 roles in the zerg army that were previously unfilled.
1. had some sort of combat ability that required a detector to counter.
2. Gave zerg splash damage.
3. Gave zerg an artillery unit that could support units holding a fixed point.
2&3 might seem similar but think about it. The baneling, helion, firebat, archon, ultralisk do not necessarily help you hold a fixed point, because their range is too short. They get focus fired immediately, because they're in the front ranks. What you really need is something in the back ranks.
with dark swarm it became more of an offensive powerhouse but i don't see anything wrong with creative play.
In short, it was an example of awesome unit design. Couple that with its cool attack animation and how you could avoid the spines with awesome micro...
i think it'll show up in future versions. But who knows. I think if zerg had lurkers nobody would be arguing about lack of unit variety though.
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On August 06 2010 05:13 DuneBug wrote:
Blizzard made a huge error in not including the lurker.
In BW when the lurker was introduced it filled like 3 roles in the zerg army that were previously unfilled.
1. had some sort of combat ability that required a detector to counter.
2. Gave zerg splash damage.
3. Gave zerg an artillery unit that could support units holding a fixed point.
2&3 might seem similar but think about it. The baneling, helion, firebat, archon, ultralisk do not necessarily help you hold a fixed point, because their range is too short. They get focus fired immediately, because they're in the front ranks. What you really need is something in the back ranks.
with dark swarm it became more of an offensive powerhouse but i don't see anything wrong with creative play.
In short, it was an example of awesome unit design. Couple that with its cool attack animation and how you could avoid the spines with awesome micro...
i think it'll show up in future versions. But who knows. I think if zerg had lurkers nobody would be arguing about lack of unit variety though.
The third is the most important.... positional playing is huge in RTS games... banelings can't do that.
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For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin!
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On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin!
I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do.
I SUPPORT THIS MUCH.
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On August 06 2010 05:38 Kpyolysis32 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin! I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do. I SUPPORT THIS MUCH.
lol a Bring back the lurker 2010 tournament would be awesome
Its also against Blizzard terms of use I believe 
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Why mod the game when we already have a full version released? I don't see the point, how many people are going to spend time playtesting a mod when they could be practicing the regular game for all the other tournies? Just not practical.
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On August 06 2010 05:41 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 05:38 Kpyolysis32 wrote:On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin! I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do. I SUPPORT THIS MUCH. lol a Bring back the lurker 2010 tournament would be awesome Its also against Blizzard terms of use I believe
How is this against the terms of use?
It would just be a custom map/game with a single unit added in.
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United States7166 Posts
On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin!
first need to decide how exactly to implement the lurker.
i hope we can all agree, as it is @ hive tech, it's completely overlapped with ultralisk.
just move it down to lair as I described above and it's already sounding pretty good. perhaps the cost needs to be lowered just a little as 150 gas is a bit too high
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On August 06 2010 05:48 Opinion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 05:41 Archerofaiur wrote:On August 06 2010 05:38 Kpyolysis32 wrote:On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin! I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do. I SUPPORT THIS MUCH. lol a Bring back the lurker 2010 tournament would be awesome Its also against Blizzard terms of use I believe How is this against the terms of use?
IIRC the terms you agree to when you ask Blizzard if you can make a tournament require that the game be unaltered.
I dont know for sure maybe someone who has contacted Blizzard to set up a tournament knows better.
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On August 06 2010 05:45 FabledIntegral wrote:
Why mod the game when we already have a full version released? I don't see the point, how many people are going to spend time playtesting a mod when they could be practicing the regular game for all the other tournies? Just not practical.
Fun > Practical
Don't have to test it much, just add it in as is, see the results.
Worst case:
"Hey, did you see that tournament where they added the Lurker?"
"Yeah, that was fun to watch, but damn that thing is OP, good thing its not in the game!"
And then all Lurker threads would end with
"Actually we brought it back ourselves, it was fun but it didn't work out."
Best case:
Lurker is back!
sounds worth the risk imo
But I'm no Pro, I'm no announcer, nor do i have skills in the editor. I'm simply a fan of the Lurker who would PAY for a streamed tournament that featured the Lurker.
Just my 2 cents.
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On August 06 2010 05:52 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 05:48 Opinion wrote:On August 06 2010 05:41 Archerofaiur wrote:On August 06 2010 05:38 Kpyolysis32 wrote:On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin! I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do. I SUPPORT THIS MUCH. lol a Bring back the lurker 2010 tournament would be awesome Its also against Blizzard terms of use I believe How is this against the terms of use? IIRC the terms you agree to when you ask Blizzard if you can make a tournament require that the game be unaltered. I dont know for sure maybe someone who has contacted Blizzard to set up a tournament knows better.
Are you sure about that? Sounds a bit strange. What about tournaments that use user made maps, how is that much different?
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Im still opposed to putting the lurker into starcraft 2. Yes, its a cool unit but I feel that starcraft 2 needs to be different from starcraft 1. Apart from this, the OP neglected to show what would happen had that bioball actually scanned the lurkers. Im sure the results would have been different.
Regardless though, like most of you I think that zerg should definitely get more units, Im just opposed to any starcraft 1 units making it in there.
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On August 06 2010 05:52 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 05:48 Opinion wrote:On August 06 2010 05:41 Archerofaiur wrote:On August 06 2010 05:38 Kpyolysis32 wrote:On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin! I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do. I SUPPORT THIS MUCH. lol a Bring back the lurker 2010 tournament would be awesome Its also against Blizzard terms of use I believe How is this against the terms of use? IIRC the terms you agree to when you ask Blizzard if you can make a tournament require that the game be unaltered. I dont know for sure maybe someone who has contacted Blizzard to set up a tournament knows better.
you can EASILY create all ladder maps in custom mode. This way you're NOT altering the original game... and just making CUSTOM map and it's all legal!
Oh... and I support this thread
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I think the sad thing is that blizz never gave us a chance to see what lurkers can do. Everygame they made it was the players that figured out how to play the game optimally otherwise we'd see 8 probes 2 zealot vs 8 ling micro wars all day in proleague.
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On August 06 2010 06:14 Konsume wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 05:52 Archerofaiur wrote:On August 06 2010 05:48 Opinion wrote:On August 06 2010 05:41 Archerofaiur wrote:On August 06 2010 05:38 Kpyolysis32 wrote:On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin! I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do. I SUPPORT THIS MUCH. lol a Bring back the lurker 2010 tournament would be awesome Its also against Blizzard terms of use I believe How is this against the terms of use? IIRC the terms you agree to when you ask Blizzard if you can make a tournament require that the game be unaltered. I dont know for sure maybe someone who has contacted Blizzard to set up a tournament knows better. you can EASILY create all ladder maps in custom mode. This way you're NOT altering the original game... and just making CUSTOM map and it's all legal! Oh... and I support this thread
What? All tournaments are played via custom games (in the sense hosting any game instead of ladder qualifies by their standards as a custom game). How would hosting a tournament with altered changes not be violating this?
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United States47024 Posts
On August 06 2010 05:52 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 05:48 Opinion wrote:On August 06 2010 05:41 Archerofaiur wrote:On August 06 2010 05:38 Kpyolysis32 wrote:On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin! I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do. I SUPPORT THIS MUCH. lol a Bring back the lurker 2010 tournament would be awesome Its also against Blizzard terms of use I believe How is this against the terms of use? IIRC the terms you agree to when you ask Blizzard if you can make a tournament require that the game be unaltered. I dont know for sure maybe someone who has contacted Blizzard to set up a tournament knows better.
If you can't play a custom map, that would mean all DotA tournaments violate the ToU.
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On August 06 2010 06:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 05:52 Archerofaiur wrote:On August 06 2010 05:48 Opinion wrote:On August 06 2010 05:41 Archerofaiur wrote:On August 06 2010 05:38 Kpyolysis32 wrote:On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote:
For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin! I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do. I SUPPORT THIS MUCH. lol a Bring back the lurker 2010 tournament would be awesome Its also against Blizzard terms of use I believe How is this against the terms of use? IIRC the terms you agree to when you ask Blizzard if you can make a tournament require that the game be unaltered. I dont know for sure maybe someone who has contacted Blizzard to set up a tournament knows better. If you can't play a custom map, that would mean all DotA tournaments violate the ToU.
I believe DOTA is an official Blizzard map now? I could be wrong, but I know Blizzard has its own tournaments for it and it's played at places like BlizzCon.
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I would like to see them in the game. Being hive tech means they wont affect timings or build orders in any drastic way. Also zerg needs some better defense IMO. I also feel that having units with overlapping roles is a good thing.
I play Toss btw, it just seems like zerg has 3 units most of the time, lings,roaches,hydra. Then they add one or two of these things >infestor, broodlords,or ultralisk.< BORING, they should be giving lurkers just on the basis of how lame thier races unit diversity is.
Iv'e watched plenty of zerg matches where the only units made are the ones I've listed. Let's not forget mutas or banelings, but when zerg goes mutas or banelings then their diversity that game is even more lame. Thats only 7 units. (queens and overlords are equivalent to supply depots and orbital command)
To compare, things I see comonly in terran 1.marine 2. marauder 3. hellion 4. ghost 5. tank 6. viking 7. medevac 8.thor 9. banshee 10. raven
Protoss 1.zealot 2.stalker 3.sentry 4.immortal 5.colossus 6.warp prism 7.void rays 8.phoenix 9.DT 10. HT 11. Archon (I won't count obs, motherships are rare)
Just think about it, if you watch 10 games of each race. How much diversity do you see game to game compared race to race. I guess since with zerg there are changlings, broodlings, infested terrans, overseers and corrupters they felt there was enough diversity.
But so many of these units are not a real stand alone type units to me.
Many times with zerg, if you see certain units come out, it means zerg will be only making 2 or 3 things for quite a while. A lurker would be a great damage dealing unit to mix in with almost any zerg army. So I feel it will not be another one of these units that once it arrives, the zergs unit diversity goes completely null. Overall, I guess it's not just zergs unit diversity game to game that sucks, it's also the total # of different things that will get made in any one game that sucks as well.
Just throwing my opinion out there, as a non zerg player, they really need lurkers.
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EPT
