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On September 11 2010 20:09 BuzzJuice wrote:
Trying to add in Lurkers means that something has to be removed ELSE THE SACRED 14 units per RACE WILL BE VIOLATED. MUHAAHHAHAAH
Lurkers are, as everyone said a much needed defense boost to the Zerg swarm, but I can't imagine Blizzard saying 'okay, we screwed up. We put in a badly designed unit in the game, and know we will replace it with something we already know is successful'.
Even then, I am sorta skeptical if the Lurker is your new unit in HoTS. Would like to see newer units besides something I already know about (no offense to people who love the nostalgia factor).
Zerg has fewer units than T and P. The Lurker is perfect since I'm bored of spamming Banelings versus bio balls and then eventually losing to constant pushing.
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On September 11 2010 20:34 skirmisheR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 20:30 zomgtossrush wrote:
I hope people realize that trying to bring back different units would break the game.
The main issue isn't cost/tech tree, its the fact that in sc1 terrans basically had an endless supply of scans with good hotkeying. 2 bases with full scans had 8 total scans. Meaning their was some sort of "balance" between zerg players trying to move lurkers around, and terran having to scan for safety. This was an exciting and VERY balanced aspect of the game.
Try to add the deadly nature in ZvT means the T player basically couldn't use mules if he wanted to do any sort of attack before ravens came out.
Well, choosing between scans and mules would be really interesting just like zerg is choosing between spawning drones or army. Are you greedy or do you want to play safe? But seriously, today we have banelings, but you don't call that a problem? It's about the exact same thing as a lurker except for that banelings kill instantly and not slowly like lurkers (lurkers are therefore more forgiving)
You have got to be shitting me.... you should try playing t without mules, honestly. I bet you couldn't even support 2 rax reactors/medivacs with it. And unless they make the energy cost of scans and or mules different(like 10-15) that would break how the terran is allowed to macro.
And its not about range of detectors, its the fact the terran player is locked up in his base until he gets to ravens. Which even for terran, its getting close to 1 base allinish play.
Banelings are the same as lurkers? Wow, let's learn sc2 properly now kids. I won't even take into consideration that banelings dont burrow until a later upgrade, assuming that even the bronze kids can figure out how drastic of a difference in gameplay sc2 blings are to sc1 lurkers.
Did you even play sc1 t? At least watch it? Without +1 armour, a small group of lurkers could wipe out 40 supply of MM with one mistep.
There are so many things freaking wrong with what you have said, and im getting tired, i could write a whole report explaining how you cant compare sc1 to sc2. And players like you frustrate me when you have such a narrow minded view of how the game works. Instead of just watching a video and saying "hey wow look at that dps vs dps, let's start forming a sub-par opinion" howabout you ask yourself how this would actually balance the game. And how correct and cost-equal(for lack of a better term) a counter would be.
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If Lurker was T3 or even T2.5, how would they have to turtle forever to get Ravens? And they could easily just 1-1-1 otherwise for a fast raven if they have to which is the farthest thing for all in.
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Bring the lurker back and at least let us try it.
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I really wish the lurker would come back in sc2, but I think they should come out of the roach not the hyrdalisk. Like you can upgrade lurker mutation at roach warren once you get a lair. Then right when you upgrade to lair you can get burrow and lurker upgrade at the same time. Would seem like a fair place to put it. I really hope blizzard doesn't make it so they can move underground though.
Why blizzard thinks that the baneling replaces the lurker really confuses me.
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God, if the lurker ever makes a comeback, im changing race Definantly!
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On August 05 2010 04:26 RoarMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 04:24 gdroxor wrote:
Just what Zerg needs to be absolutely unbeatable in a macro game - biological siege tanks. Yea except Siege Tanks are a lower tier and also out range lurkers. Did I mention costing less?
Exactly. Not to mention this same type of AoE damage is fine for hellions which 2 shot lings/workers just like lurkers do, and can micro while doing so.
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god forbid terran has to get detection before they attack.
On August 05 2010 04:23 Roniii wrote:
i can see why those aren't in multiplayer lol
and yet the seige tanks did practically the same thing and they are...
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I play Terran. I would love to see that back in SC2, however, it will be pretty useless as a T3 unit. It needs to be brought back to T2. But if that was to happen, having both hydralisks and lurkers at T2 would be pretty bad..... A rearrangement of the tech structure would be necessary to add lurkers back in.....
In ZvT -
Pretty much the only thing I can think of would be making the Hydra a T1 unit, Lurker T2 (preferrably morphing from a hydra again), and move baneling to T2. The hydra den build time might need to be modified (or be rather short but require a roach warren), to prevent a hydra bust from happening too quickly. A 1 base terran needs to be able to get siege mode (and at least 2-3 tanks) or 1 medivac with a standard opening before the hydra bust happens..... Otherwise it would just be too easy to win..... Ideally, it would replace a baneling bust with a hydra bust at T1, however, it would give more options to Z at T2. And, since Lurkers do splash, it would help kill buildings quicker, which is something Z has a problem with atm.
In ZvP - Some kind of counter to a 1 hatch hydra happening at T1 is needed. Not 100% sure what it would be..... This seems trickier..... I'm not sure how fast a P can get HT with storm or DT out of a 2 gate opening, but I doubt it would be fast enough to stop a 1 hatch hydra coming that quickly..... It may depend on how much pressure you can put on the Z beforehand.
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zealots rape hydras off creep (T1 time).
Chargeleots rape hydra on creep.
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I think zerg from Sc1 with new mechanicks like qeen and creep spreading, overseers and maybe old qeen replace for infestor would be be big buff to zerg, I don't need rouches when I have T1 hydras for that price, I dont need banelings when I have lurkers, and I dont need corruptos when I have scourges. And it would be much more fun to play zerg then.
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On September 11 2010 23:40 Filo wrote:
I really wish the lurker would come back in sc2, but I think they should come out of the roach not the hyrdalisk. Like you can upgrade lurker mutation at roach warren once you get a lair. Then right when you upgrade to lair you can get burrow and lurker upgrade at the same time. Would seem like a fair place to put it. I really hope blizzard doesn't make it so they can move underground though.
Why blizzard thinks that the baneling replaces the lurker really confuses me.
Everyone know baneling cannot replace lurker. It's basically a very bad lie that grown ups told children they are acting ridiculous, when actually he just want to stomp the clever remarks out of your spine to make his/her parenting life easier. Which makes you stupid in your adulthood. What really confuses me is, since Blizzard already want to make Zerg defensive in early game (and maybe through out the entire game?). So why would they kill Lurkers which is obviously a classic defensive unit for Zerg, instead they went and create something that is both suicidal and demeaning for zerg? Is it suppose to be a surprise orr...
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EPT
