form a bw stand point, lurkers were such a fun unit to play with..
cloaked, loads of damage, positioning is super important, unborrow and burrow takes time, has many viable counters and weaknesses so not op... whoever came up with the lurker originally should deserve a gold star sticker
also makes for great spectating shoulda been kept in for sc2 imo and they shoulda removed something else instead (too keep it different from bw).. i dunno what though haha
On August 06 2010 06:38 Reborn8u wrote: I would like to see them in the game. Being hive tech means they wont affect timings or build orders in any drastic way. Also zerg needs some better defense IMO. I also feel that having units with overlapping roles is a good thing. I play Toss btw, it just seems like zerg has 3 units most of the time, lings,roaches,hydra. Then they add one or two of these things >infestor, broodlords,or ultralisk.< BORING, they should be giving lurkers just on the basis of how lame thier races unit diversity is. Iv'e watched plenty of zerg matches where the only units made are the ones I've listed. Let's not forget mutas or banelings, but when zerg goes mutas or banelings then their diversity that game is even more lame. Thats only 7 units. (queens and overlords are equivalent to supply depots and orbital command) To compare, things I see comonly in terran 1.marine 2. marauder 3. hellion 4. ghost 5. tank 6. viking 7. medevac 8.thor 9. banshee 10. raven Protoss 1.zealot 2.stalker 3.sentry 4.immortal 5.colossus 6.warp prism 7.void rays 8.phoenix 9.DT 10. HT 11. Archon (I won't count obs, motherships are rare)
Just think about it, if you watch 10 games of each race. How much diversity do you see game to game compared race to race. I guess since with zerg there are changlings, broodlings, infested terrans, overseers and corrupters they felt there was enough diversity. But so many of these units are not a real stand alone type units to me.
Many times with zerg, if you see certain units come out, it means zerg will be only making 2 or 3 things for quite a while. A lurker would be a great damage dealing unit to mix in with almost any zerg army. So I feel it will not be another one of these units that once it arrives, the zergs unit diversity goes completely null. Overall, I guess it's not just zergs unit diversity game to game that sucks, it's also the total # of different things that will get made in any one game that sucks as well.
Just throwing my opinion out there, as a non zerg player, they really need lurkers.
On August 06 2010 05:27 Opinion wrote: For all the Lurker fans out there.
Can't Team Liquid sponsor a "Bring back the Lurker" Tournament?
Seriously, here me out...
We can bring back the Lurker with the Galaxy editor, do some light play testing, then host a full blown tournament with as many TL pros and announcers as possible, all to showcase the Lurker live in game in competitive play.
IF the Lurker fits in, isn't broken, and causes a lot of attention towards the game Blizzard would certainly take notice. Perhaps even bring it back...
The only thing that would ruin this would be for the Lurker to completely imbalance the game single handedly, make Zerg unstoppable and prove them right for taking it out in the first place, but somehow i doubt this would happen.
So... let the "Bring Back the Lurker 2010 Tournament" begin!
I would totally help organize this if there was anything I could do. I SUPPORT THIS MUCH.
lol a Bring back the lurker 2010 tournament would be awesome
Its also against Blizzard terms of use I believe
Unaltered as in client not being modded/altered in any way. nothing wrong with UMS maps.
im in full support for bringing back the lurker. as a zerg player. i hate the baneling. i think it's a stupid unit and border line overpowered and that it does NOT overlap with the lurker in ANY way.
as someone said. lurkers are a good unit to keep alive and let them do damage while lesser units take the hits. the same way zealots and dragoons worked in bw.
banelings you just make 50 of them and steamroll your enemy and it's over. i dont see any dynamic or interesting gameplay mechanism with them. everytime it's just like "oh. here comes the banelings. we know how this story ends..."
Very interesting, I really hope they will introduce them in multiplayer at some point.. same with reavers. But until then its best not comparing them with the current state of the multiplayer meta game.
it's not about them being overpowered. it's about them being useless. by default blizzard has them at hive tech. with earlier observers, stuff like marauders having 6 range just like lurkers. whats the point in making them. they'd be crap. thats the main reason i see why blizzard didn't include them. just like why the ultralisk needed to be so ridiculously buffed compared to it's BW version. that shit just gets owned hard and fast.
On August 05 2010 04:30 HardcoreBilly wrote: Just a tip, if you plan to make a series of video, please get a mic, and if not a mic, then don't type at all, the viewers will usually get the gist. Or if you must note something, have it in the description or have a black screen of text (and not type in the actual video).
Now to the actual video: You have Lurker all wrong. It is in no way like a Siege Tank. Any competent player, or in this case, a Terran, would scan and then kill the Lurkers.
Lurkers were great in SC:BW mainly because of the Dark Swarm, seeing as though that isn't in the game, it will drastically be less effective and be used differently in SC2. In SC2 I would imagine Lurkers being more defensive, and never come in packs (as one detector would annihilate all Lurkers). Instead, a player would probably have one lurker at each base, or used to prevent enemy mining (assuming you sneak one to the back.
Were defilers added to the galaxy editor? I don't recall seeing them in any SC2 custom maps.
On August 05 2010 04:30 HardcoreBilly wrote: Just a tip, if you plan to make a series of video, please get a mic, and if not a mic, then don't type at all, the viewers will usually get the gist. Or if you must note something, have it in the description or have a black screen of text (and not type in the actual video).
Now to the actual video: You have Lurker all wrong. It is in no way like a Siege Tank. Any competent player, or in this case, a Terran, would scan and then kill the Lurkers.
Lurkers were great in SC:BW mainly because of the Dark Swarm, seeing as though that isn't in the game, it will drastically be less effective and be used differently in SC2. In SC2 I would imagine Lurkers being more defensive, and never come in packs (as one detector would annihilate all Lurkers). Instead, a player would probably have one lurker at each base, or used to prevent enemy mining (assuming you sneak one to the back.
Were defliers added to the galaxy editor? I don't recall seeing them in any SC2 custom maps.
Am I the only one who would rather have new units than rehashed old ones?
Reavers, lurkers were cool in SC1 and all but this is a different game. We've been playing the same BW for over 10 years now, so I have no desire to change SC2 into a carbon copy of it.
Lurkers are so fucking fun, and zerg needs more options to make p/t react more. Right now terran protoss can make anything, and zerg has to adapt to it.
it's not about them being overpowered. it's about them being useless. by default blizzard has them at hive tech. with earlier observers, stuff like marauders having 6 range just like lurkers. whats the point in making them. they'd be crap. thats the main reason i see why blizzard didn't include them. just like why the ultralisk needed to be so ridiculously buffed compared to it's BW version. that shit just gets owned hard and fast.
Well, they also had 9 range + improved stats to balance the higher tech. But still, they ended up being the odd man out against the super-powerful Ultra and Broodlord.
The video shown here doesn't showcase the very slow rate at which the spines shoot out in a line. You can literally dance an infinite number of lurker attacks with a Thor as long as you don't stop moving and aren't directly on top of the lurkers.