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On July 27 2010 04:38 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:35 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:27 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:25 Graven wrote:
You cannot effectively scout a player with an Overlord that doesn't have the speed upgrade. I hate to make assumptions, but I'm guessing you don't play Zerg... I didn't say AN overlord. You can scout pretty effectively with two, in my experience. They can't have anti air units all over their base, and if they do, you can just push their front and so on. But, if I'm wrong, let me know. I haven't played zerg in a while, what with the beta being down. I'm not sure if you're trying to be difficult, but I'll remain cordial... You can use two Overlord's...hell you can use three to be even safer. However, they need to be put in place several minutes before (crossing the map with an unupgraded Overlord takes time) and you need to hope the Overlord about to reveal the needed info isn't killed first. 2-3 Marines kill an Overlord VERY quickly, so to throw 200 minerals, several minutes of positioning, and two larvae away, all for a CHANCE at reveallnig what your opponent is doing isn't ideal. Fair enough. Though, it's still not uncommon for the first hundred gas to go to lair, and if not the first, then the second hundred gas. It's one of the flaws in the game, sure. Just like protoss only has one means of detection. EDIT: And I'm not trying to be difficult. =]
Well, against Terran, typically the first hundred gas needs to go into Zergling Speed or one risks getting dominated by Hellions. Even if a Zerg player wanted to use the first hundred gas on Lair tech, they still need to wait for their Queen to pop out, so there's a built in delay regardless.
As for Protoss detection...huh? Every race has only one unit with detection and one static defensive building that detects. Terran happen to have scan as well. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, especially since the Observer is perhaps the best unit in the game.
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On July 27 2010 04:44 Graven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:38 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:35 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:27 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:25 Graven wrote:
You cannot effectively scout a player with an Overlord that doesn't have the speed upgrade. I hate to make assumptions, but I'm guessing you don't play Zerg... I didn't say AN overlord. You can scout pretty effectively with two, in my experience. They can't have anti air units all over their base, and if they do, you can just push their front and so on. But, if I'm wrong, let me know. I haven't played zerg in a while, what with the beta being down. I'm not sure if you're trying to be difficult, but I'll remain cordial... You can use two Overlord's...hell you can use three to be even safer. However, they need to be put in place several minutes before (crossing the map with an unupgraded Overlord takes time) and you need to hope the Overlord about to reveal the needed info isn't killed first. 2-3 Marines kill an Overlord VERY quickly, so to throw 200 minerals, several minutes of positioning, and two larvae away, all for a CHANCE at reveallnig what your opponent is doing isn't ideal. Fair enough. Though, it's still not uncommon for the first hundred gas to go to lair, and if not the first, then the second hundred gas. It's one of the flaws in the game, sure. Just like protoss only has one means of detection. EDIT: And I'm not trying to be difficult. =] Well, against Terran, typically the first hundred gas needs to go into Zergling Speed or one risks getting dominated by Hellions. Even if a Zerg player wanted to use the first hundred gas on Lair tech, they still need to wait for their Queen to pop out, so there's a built in delay regardless. As for Protoss detection...huh? Every race has only one unit with detection and one static defensive building that detects. Terran happen to have scan as well. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, especially since the Observer is perhaps the best unit in the game.
Terran has scan and raven and turrets. Zerg has overseer, which only requires lair. Protoss require going into robo just to get the ability to survive without cannons. So either a forge or a robo. But that's neither here nor there.
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On July 27 2010 04:39 MythicalMage wrote:
If DIMAGA tried it, that means that it works at least some of the time. It's not like he's going into a big tournament looking to lose.
I don't think you understand that what Dimaga was doing was an all-in play and not "aggression". Aggression lets you transition into another play relatively safely regardless of the outcome of your aggressive attack.
If Dimaga stopped attacking after his initial zerglings/banelings he LOSES. Look how much gas he spent on all those expensive banelings all the while being on 1 gas and far behind in workers. His opponent was already saturated and on 2 gas and way ahead in tech/expansion. If he stops attacking he cannot possibly catch up in economy nor tech.
If you're suggesting using Dimaga as an example of aggression then you have already failed and don't understand what everyone is talking about when they say "aggression".
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On July 27 2010 04:47 DoomFox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:39 MythicalMage wrote:
If DIMAGA tried it, that means that it works at least some of the time. It's not like he's going into a big tournament looking to lose. I don't think you understand that what Dimaga was doing was an all-in play and not "aggression". Aggression lets you transition into another play relatively safely regardless of the outcome of your aggressive attack. If Dimaga stopped attacking after his initial zerglings/banelings he LOSES. Look how much gas he spent on all those expensive banelings all the while being on 1 gas. His opponent was already saturated and on 2 gas and way ahead in tech/expansion. If he stops attacking he cannot possibly catch up in economy nor tech. If you're suggesting using Dimaga as an example of aggression then you have already failed and don't understand what everyone is talking about when they say "aggression".
I was referring more to his roach play. In fact, in one of his games against WhiteRa I think, on Blistering Sands, he expanded a bunch.
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Lol @ argument...
Anyways, for all you Blizzard flamers and "OP Terran/UP Zerg" screamers out there: this is the Terran package, next comes Zerg, then Protoss. GG.
Thanks for this thread, there is nothing wrong with Zerg, Blizzard is a lot smarter than the angry preteen gamers who call them idiots.
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On July 27 2010 04:46 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:44 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:38 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:35 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:27 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:25 Graven wrote:
You cannot effectively scout a player with an Overlord that doesn't have the speed upgrade. I hate to make assumptions, but I'm guessing you don't play Zerg... I didn't say AN overlord. You can scout pretty effectively with two, in my experience. They can't have anti air units all over their base, and if they do, you can just push their front and so on. But, if I'm wrong, let me know. I haven't played zerg in a while, what with the beta being down. I'm not sure if you're trying to be difficult, but I'll remain cordial... You can use two Overlord's...hell you can use three to be even safer. However, they need to be put in place several minutes before (crossing the map with an unupgraded Overlord takes time) and you need to hope the Overlord about to reveal the needed info isn't killed first. 2-3 Marines kill an Overlord VERY quickly, so to throw 200 minerals, several minutes of positioning, and two larvae away, all for a CHANCE at reveallnig what your opponent is doing isn't ideal. Fair enough. Though, it's still not uncommon for the first hundred gas to go to lair, and if not the first, then the second hundred gas. It's one of the flaws in the game, sure. Just like protoss only has one means of detection. EDIT: And I'm not trying to be difficult. =] Well, against Terran, typically the first hundred gas needs to go into Zergling Speed or one risks getting dominated by Hellions. Even if a Zerg player wanted to use the first hundred gas on Lair tech, they still need to wait for their Queen to pop out, so there's a built in delay regardless. As for Protoss detection...huh? Every race has only one unit with detection and one static defensive building that detects. Terran happen to have scan as well. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, especially since the Observer is perhaps the best unit in the game. Terran has scan and raven and turrets. Zerg has overseer, which only requires lair. Protoss require going into robo just to get the ability to survive without cannons. So either a forge or a robo. But that's neither here nor there.
Yes, but the unit can fly and is cloaked. I'd gladly trade the Overseer for an Observer at the cost of another tech building. Again though...what is the point of this tangent?
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On July 27 2010 04:50 zTz wrote:
Lol @ argument...
Anyways, for all you Blizzard flamers and "OP Terran/UP Zerg" screamers out there: this is the Terran package, next comes Zerg, then Protoss. GG.
Thanks for this thread, there is nothing wrong with Zerg, Blizzard is a lot smarter than the angry preteen gamers who call them idiots. Well said about it not being done.
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On July 27 2010 04:50 Graven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:46 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:44 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:38 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:35 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:27 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:25 Graven wrote:
You cannot effectively scout a player with an Overlord that doesn't have the speed upgrade. I hate to make assumptions, but I'm guessing you don't play Zerg... I didn't say AN overlord. You can scout pretty effectively with two, in my experience. They can't have anti air units all over their base, and if they do, you can just push their front and so on. But, if I'm wrong, let me know. I haven't played zerg in a while, what with the beta being down. I'm not sure if you're trying to be difficult, but I'll remain cordial... You can use two Overlord's...hell you can use three to be even safer. However, they need to be put in place several minutes before (crossing the map with an unupgraded Overlord takes time) and you need to hope the Overlord about to reveal the needed info isn't killed first. 2-3 Marines kill an Overlord VERY quickly, so to throw 200 minerals, several minutes of positioning, and two larvae away, all for a CHANCE at reveallnig what your opponent is doing isn't ideal. Fair enough. Though, it's still not uncommon for the first hundred gas to go to lair, and if not the first, then the second hundred gas. It's one of the flaws in the game, sure. Just like protoss only has one means of detection. EDIT: And I'm not trying to be difficult. =] Well, against Terran, typically the first hundred gas needs to go into Zergling Speed or one risks getting dominated by Hellions. Even if a Zerg player wanted to use the first hundred gas on Lair tech, they still need to wait for their Queen to pop out, so there's a built in delay regardless. As for Protoss detection...huh? Every race has only one unit with detection and one static defensive building that detects. Terran happen to have scan as well. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, especially since the Observer is perhaps the best unit in the game. Terran has scan and raven and turrets. Zerg has overseer, which only requires lair. Protoss require going into robo just to get the ability to survive without cannons. So either a forge or a robo. But that's neither here nor there. Yes, but the unit can fly and is cloaked. I'd gladly trade the Overseer for an Observer at the cost of another tech building. Again though...what is the point of this tangent?
I was just trying to point out what seemed a flaw in the game development, an imbalance if you will.
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On July 27 2010 04:50 zTz wrote:
Lol @ argument...
Anyways, for all you Blizzard flamers and "OP Terran/UP Zerg" screamers out there: this is the Terran package, next comes Zerg, then Protoss. GG.
Thanks for this thread, there is nothing wrong with Zerg, Blizzard is a lot smarter than the angry preteen gamers who call them idiots.
Are you implying that Blizzard purposely intended for Terran to be the strongest race because the Terran campaign is being released? And then did you actually follow that up by insulting other peoples' intelligence? Really?
Really?
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On July 27 2010 04:52 Graven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:50 zTz wrote:
Lol @ argument...
Anyways, for all you Blizzard flamers and "OP Terran/UP Zerg" screamers out there: this is the Terran package, next comes Zerg, then Protoss. GG.
Thanks for this thread, there is nothing wrong with Zerg, Blizzard is a lot smarter than the angry preteen gamers who call them idiots. Are you implying that Blizzard purposely intended for Terran to be the strongest race because the Terran campaign is being released? And then did you actually follow that up by insulting other peoples' intelligence? Really? Really?
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On July 27 2010 04:52 Graven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:50 zTz wrote:
Lol @ argument...
Anyways, for all you Blizzard flamers and "OP Terran/UP Zerg" screamers out there: this is the Terran package, next comes Zerg, then Protoss. GG.
Thanks for this thread, there is nothing wrong with Zerg, Blizzard is a lot smarter than the angry preteen gamers who call them idiots. Are you implying that Blizzard purposely intended for Terran to be the strongest race because the Terran campaign is being released? And then did you actually follow that up by insulting other peopless intelligence? Really? Really?
No. I'm fairly certain he's implying that Zerg is not "complete."
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On July 27 2010 04:50 zTz wrote:
Lol @ argument...
Anyways, for all you Blizzard flamers and "OP Terran/UP Zerg" screamers out there: this is the Terran package, next comes Zerg, then Protoss. GG.
Thanks for this thread, there is nothing wrong with Zerg, Blizzard is a lot smarter than the angry preteen gamers who call them idiots.
Do you have a short memory? All one has to do is to look at the Phoenix and it's "moving shot" mechanic to know that Blizzard isn't infallible and is capable of not understanding their own game.
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On July 27 2010 04:53 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:52 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:50 zTz wrote:
Lol @ argument...
Anyways, for all you Blizzard flamers and "OP Terran/UP Zerg" screamers out there: this is the Terran package, next comes Zerg, then Protoss. GG.
Thanks for this thread, there is nothing wrong with Zerg, Blizzard is a lot smarter than the angry preteen gamers who call them idiots. Are you implying that Blizzard purposely intended for Terran to be the strongest race because the Terran campaign is being released? And then did you actually follow that up by insulting other peopless intelligence? Really? Really? No. I'm fairly certain he's implying that Zerg is not "complete."
Under that logic, no race is complete. It's not as if only Zerg is gonig to receive new units in the first expansion. This entire argument is painfully stupid.
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On July 27 2010 04:54 Graven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:53 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:52 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:50 zTz wrote:
Lol @ argument...
Anyways, for all you Blizzard flamers and "OP Terran/UP Zerg" screamers out there: this is the Terran package, next comes Zerg, then Protoss. GG.
Thanks for this thread, there is nothing wrong with Zerg, Blizzard is a lot smarter than the angry preteen gamers who call them idiots. Are you implying that Blizzard purposely intended for Terran to be the strongest race because the Terran campaign is being released? And then did you actually follow that up by insulting other peopless intelligence? Really? Really? No. I'm fairly certain he's implying that Zerg is not "complete." Under that logic, no race is complete. It's not as if only Zerg is gonig to receive new units in the first expansion. This entire argument is painfully stupid. I'm fairly certain Zerg will get new units in the Zerg expansion, and the same for Protoss. Just like every expansion that Blizzard has released for it's RTS games has given new units.
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Burrow, Nydus, Doomsday drops, and Fungal growth blocks. All these could be used to decide a game, just like some force fields can decide a game.
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Like I said, there's no point discussing anything if they don't understand what they're talking about. Hopefully somebody who can put a rational thought together can turn this thread around.
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On July 27 2010 04:38 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:35 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:27 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:25 Graven wrote:
You cannot effectively scout a player with an Overlord that doesn't have the speed upgrade. I hate to make assumptions, but I'm guessing you don't play Zerg... I didn't say AN overlord. You can scout pretty effectively with two, in my experience. They can't have anti air units all over their base, and if they do, you can just push their front and so on. But, if I'm wrong, let me know. I haven't played zerg in a while, what with the beta being down. I'm not sure if you're trying to be difficult, but I'll remain cordial... You can use two Overlord's...hell you can use three to be even safer. However, they need to be put in place several minutes before (crossing the map with an unupgraded Overlord takes time) and you need to hope the Overlord about to reveal the needed info isn't killed first. 2-3 Marines kill an Overlord VERY quickly, so to throw 200 minerals, several minutes of positioning, and two larvae away, all for a CHANCE at reveallnig what your opponent is doing isn't ideal. Fair enough. Though, it's still not uncommon for the first hundred gas to go to lair, and if not the first, then the second hundred gas. It's one of the flaws in the game, sure. Just like protoss only has one means of detection. EDIT: And I'm not trying to be difficult. =]
dont listen to him. hes argueing that slow ovi scouts are worthless .yeah evryone that did that since 10 years (including evry pro and sc2) obviously has no clue.
evryone will tell you that sacing overlords is totally standart and recommended. if you dont already somewhat know whats going on from running 1-2 lings up his ramp or having a decently fast lair for a overseer intime.
dont let him talk you out of smart plays just because in his world Z is the worst race evurr !
had to jump in...
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On July 27 2010 04:56 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:54 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:53 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:52 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:50 zTz wrote:
Lol @ argument...
Anyways, for all you Blizzard flamers and "OP Terran/UP Zerg" screamers out there: this is the Terran package, next comes Zerg, then Protoss. GG.
Thanks for this thread, there is nothing wrong with Zerg, Blizzard is a lot smarter than the angry preteen gamers who call them idiots. Are you implying that Blizzard purposely intended for Terran to be the strongest race because the Terran campaign is being released? And then did you actually follow that up by insulting other peopless intelligence? Really? Really? No. I'm fairly certain he's implying that Zerg is not "complete." Under that logic, no race is complete. It's not as if only Zerg is gonig to receive new units in the first expansion. This entire argument is painfully stupid. I'm fairly certain Zerg will get new units in the Zerg expansion, and the same for Protoss. Just like every expansion that Blizzard has released for it's RTS games has given new units.
Exactly...so wtf are you aguing?
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On July 27 2010 04:57 DoomFox wrote:
Like I said, there's no point discussing anything if they don't understand what they're talking about. Hopefully somebody who can put a rational thought together can turn this thread around.
What do you mean by that?
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On July 27 2010 04:58 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:38 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:35 Graven wrote:On July 27 2010 04:27 MythicalMage wrote:On July 27 2010 04:25 Graven wrote:
You cannot effectively scout a player with an Overlord that doesn't have the speed upgrade. I hate to make assumptions, but I'm guessing you don't play Zerg... I didn't say AN overlord. You can scout pretty effectively with two, in my experience. They can't have anti air units all over their base, and if they do, you can just push their front and so on. But, if I'm wrong, let me know. I haven't played zerg in a while, what with the beta being down. I'm not sure if you're trying to be difficult, but I'll remain cordial... You can use two Overlord's...hell you can use three to be even safer. However, they need to be put in place several minutes before (crossing the map with an unupgraded Overlord takes time) and you need to hope the Overlord about to reveal the needed info isn't killed first. 2-3 Marines kill an Overlord VERY quickly, so to throw 200 minerals, several minutes of positioning, and two larvae away, all for a CHANCE at reveallnig what your opponent is doing isn't ideal. Fair enough. Though, it's still not uncommon for the first hundred gas to go to lair, and if not the first, then the second hundred gas. It's one of the flaws in the game, sure. Just like protoss only has one means of detection. EDIT: And I'm not trying to be difficult. =] dont listen to him. hes argueing that slow ovi scouts are worthless .yeah evryone that did that since 10 years (including evry pro and sc2) obviously has no clue. evryone will tell you that sacing overlords is totally standart and recommended. if you dont already somewhat know whats going on from running 1-2 lings up his ramp or having a decently fast lair for a overseer intime. dont let him talk you out of smart plays just because in his world Z is the worst race evurr ! had to jump in...
I do scout with slow Overlords and was not suggesting not to. This thread is painful. There's no chance any of the people arguing against Zerg being UP play Zerg.
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EPT
