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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:37 MythicalMage wrote: Why can't queens? Sure, early game you don't have the production capacity, but late game? Why not? Did you just suggest going mass Queens in the late game? You're kinda retarded. User was warned for this post | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:40 Ruthless wrote: Ahout mech: although i do think it is hard to beat i know we can argue about map balance being the problem, but at the end of the day you are just agreeing that zvt is broken you just are blaming it on something else. Mech aside, i think the matchup feels so hard for z because of the sheer amount of nearly unscoutable strategues all of which require a unique response to avoid falling way behind not to mention the amount of vulnerability zerg must submit to in order to take an advantage. I will list all the strats i am thinking about when i have to play zerg. Early reaper. Reaper bunker rush Marine bunker rush Early hellions into expand Early hellions into more hellions Thor drop Hell8on maurader timing push Marine hellion iming push Banshees Banshees with cloak Thor.timing push Tank play If i make the wrong choice on what your hiding behind the wall off. i literally have no chance. You pick the harrass and if i play too safe i have no way to punish you with my defensive slow units that die to one tank on the ridge. I dont play safe enough and four hellions kills 10 or more drones. If terran expects mutas and gets a thor. And the flthree to four turrets it takes to cover two bases (lol). The thor can be dropped or used to great effect against ground. If zerg goes muta and terran has five rines and a thor your out 1000-1400 resources for nothing because they die like paper to terran anti air. I think I'm going to quote myself, much earlier in this thread in regards to this. On July 27 2010 03:50 MythicalMage wrote: And, more importantly, and I know people aren't going to want to hear this, but Zerg is the least finished race. Wait for the zerg expansion, and then see what options you have. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:44 Headshot wrote: Did you just suggest going mass Queens in the late game? You're kinda retarded. Why not? You have the hatcheries that can make them and whatnot. I'm not saying it's ideal, or anything, but there's no reason to completely rule one of the few zerg units out of the game. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
Regardless, Terran is more diverse. . .because it has more units. That's literally it. Zerg will diversify with the expansion, I guarantee it. [/QUOTE] Queens are practically immobile off creep, and by the time you are able to cover most maps w/ creep your opponent should have observers or a raven out to snipe all of your forward creep tumors. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:43 DoomFox wrote: I just think it's funny you're writing off zerg balance in a game that's just been released and are just saying deal with it, wait till next year to become as competitive as terran/toss. Blizzard can easily balance the game with a patch or two. Why should anyone have to wait for an entirely new game to achieve balance? I'm not saying that. I think the game is balanced, and I think that if you want more diversity, you can wait for the expansion. | ||
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Graven
United States314 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:43 DoomFox wrote: I just think it's funny you're writing off zerg balance in a game that's just been released and are just saying deal with it, wait till next year to become as competitive as terran/toss. Blizzard can easily balance the game with a patch or two. Why should anyone have to wait for an entirely new game to achieve balance? That's exactly it. I feel that the opposing logic is so ridiculous, it may actually just be trolling. I can't fathom a rational person having that opinion. | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
And Queens move extremely slow off creep. | ||
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DoomFox
Canada51 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:45 MythicalMage wrote: Why not? You have the hatcheries that can make them and whatnot. I'm not saying it's ideal, or anything, but there's no reason to completely rule one of the few zerg units out of the game. Why not? Do you remember why Queens speed of creep was nerfed? Blizzard specifically stated the queen is not intended for offense. Besides if we're talking late game, queen's damage is crap compared to the units it's going to be fighting against. Have you actually played zerg at a competent level or are you just brainstorming ideas without any experience for basis? I can't tell if you're being serious or just trolling for your own amusement. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:48 Headshot wrote: Because the supply wasted to make Queens would be put to better use making actual useful units. Queens are not an offensive unit. How about you learn a little bit about the race before you enter a discussion like this. Why aren't they? Sure the mobility thing, but their anti air damage isn't bad, nor is their anti ground. I'm not saying they're your entire army, I'm saying they can be part of your composition. And I'm not even talking about transfusion. | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
I've come to the conclusion that you're trolling. No one can be that dumb. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:40 Ruthless wrote: + Show Spoiler + Ahout mech: although i do think it is hard to beat i know we can argue about map balance being the problem, but at the end of the day you are just agreeing that zvt is broken you just are blaming it on something else. Mech aside, i think the matchup feels so hard for z because of the sheer amount of nearly unscoutable strategues all of which require a unique response to avoid falling way behind not to mention the amount of vulnerability zerg must submit to in order to take an advantage. I will list all the strats i am thinking about when i have to play zerg. Early reaper. Reaper bunker rush Marine bunker rush Early hellions into expand Early hellions into more hellions Thor drop Hell8on maurader timing push Marine hellion iming push Banshees Banshees with cloak Thor.timing push Tank play If i make the wrong choice on what your hiding behind the wall off. i literally have no chance. You pick the harrass and if i play too safe i have no way to punish you with my defensive slow units that die to one tank on the ridge. I dont play safe enough and four hellions kills 10 or more drones. If terran expects mutas and gets a thor. And the flthree to four turrets it takes to cover two bases (lol). The thor can be dropped or used to great effect against ground. If zerg goes muta and terran has five rines and a thor your out 1000-1400 resources for nothing because they die like paper to terran anti air. most of that can easily be countered (pull drones kill scv building bunker,block ramp etc) scouted (run a ling up the ramp to see what hes doing/sac ovi) or isnt a big issue if you arent overdroning and tech normally/have some units . in short solid well timed play solves the majority of your problems. ofc there are openings that are strong and can easily surprise you if well timed. thats always the case in evry matchup. but its not nearly as bad as you make it sound. and you are vastly exaggerating on the muta part. still most of my wins vs T come from muta contains. losses as T are split between muta harrass and just macro games where my opening fails to do dmg and i get behind. ofc there are openings that are strong and can easily surprise you if well timed. thats always the case in evry matchup. but its not nearly as bad as you make it sound. | ||
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DoomFox
Canada51 Posts
This is ridiculous. Someone save this thread. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:49 DoomFox wrote: Why not? Do you remember why Queens speed of creep was nerfed? Blizzard specifically stated the queen is not intended for offense. Besides if we're talking late game, queen's damage is crap compared to the units it's going to be fighting against. Have you actually played zerg at a competent level or are you just brainstorming ideas without any experience for basis? I can't tell if you're being serious or just trolling for your own amusement. I'm being serious, I assure you. People shouldn't dismiss something so quickly, they should at least give it a try. Blizzard nerfed Queen speed off creep, because there was an abusable strategy involving them, or so I thought. That doesn't mean that they're not offensive. I am brainstorming though. Just throwing ideas out there. People complaining they don't have enough units and then dismissing a unit without any real thought is less than ideal. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:51 DoomFox wrote: I'm going to take my own advice and stop replying to MythicalMage. He's already admitted to not knowing anything about zerg mechanics or playstyle and is either trolling on purpose or is basing his theories on thin air. This is ridiculous. Someone save this thread. I love how you make up things that I say. It's really quite humorous. | ||
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Graven
United States314 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:45 MythicalMage wrote: Why not? You have the hatcheries that can make them and whatnot. I'm not saying it's ideal, or anything, but there's no reason to completely rule one of the few zerg units out of the game. LOL. You're an awesome troll. Well done. | ||
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Sieziggy
United States53 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:49 MythicalMage wrote: Why aren't they? Sure the mobility thing, but their anti air damage isn't bad, nor is their anti ground. I'm not saying they're your entire army, I'm saying they can be part of your composition. And I'm not even talking about transfusion. He has to be trolling.... | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
I am literally not trolling. I'm just putting out the possibility. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
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DTown
United States428 Posts
Also, double posting like its your job. | ||
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Ruthless
United States492 Posts
On July 27 2010 05:44 MythicalMage wrote: I think I'm going to quote myself, much earlier in this thread in regards to this. Thats an explanation for why you agree with me tha zerg vs terran is an unfair matchuo? You are just shifting the debate and everyone is falling into it. I dont really care about your speculations about zergs degree of completion or your speculations on their future development. I am more interested in discussing the idea of zerg vs terran and the difficulties i have been facing more and more as the entire terran player base is discovering more ways to exploit zergs | ||
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