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@ sugar bear, I agree that zerg has interesting mechanics and options and they have always been my favorite race since BW. it just feels that on most maps, zerg don't the ability to utilize their strengths.
1- maps are considerably smaller in sc2 than they were in sc1 and both terran and toss have stronger harass/rush openings, so zerg FE is suicide in many cases
2- maps have less open space and more chokes in sc2, so terran/toss can wall of easier and hold off huge zerg attacks without having to worry about surrounds or ambushes
3- maps in sc2 have cliffs everywhere, which allows terran to abuse vikings, tank drops, thor
drops (this is especially tough for zerg because, unlike in BW, we have no anti air units in T1 other than queens)
disclaimer-i'm only a mid-level diamond and am still crappy at this game, but until someone convinces me otherwise i believe blizzard churned out some awful and imbalanced ladder maps that are breaking ZvT and partially ZvP
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On July 20 2010 09:30 us.insurgency wrote:
Its all going to change with the expansion packs. This is the Terran game so they have a bunch of units, then zerg will get some, and then finally protoss.
I think that all three races will get new units in each expansion pack, however I also believe that Heart of The Swarm will be focused on more so on extra Zerg stuff, and Legacy of the Void will do the same with Protoss. Give Blizzard a chance, the game hasn't even come out yet. Brood War is balanced but is the original Starcraft without the expansion pack balanced?
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Terran I would have to say is the strongest, not by far by any means, but if I had to chose it would be terran. Mech may do a lot of damage but it's easily exploited with drops and such. As for the worst I have to say is zerg. I started sc2 as a zerg player but I got bored of the simplicity of the race. I found myself getting roaches, hydras lings and mutas all the time. I have now switched to protoss and I'm loving the feel of the race.
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On July 20 2010 22:48 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 21:38 Necrosjef wrote:On July 20 2010 21:14 Sadistx wrote:
How many threads are you zergs going to make to make yourself feel better about losing to terrans? I've seriously lost count. Your main argument is basically "tanks imba". I've yet to see a single replay confirming this, maybe because no one here is actually good enough to provide such high level reps. How about contribute something useful to the discussion or GTFO? You should probably take that advice and post some replays instead of the nonsense from your previous posts.
Go watch Intotherainbow vs Dimaga
http://day9tv.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc
Basic showcase of how Terran is broken.
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On July 21 2010 02:21 tskarzyn wrote:
@ sugar bear, I agree that zerg has interesting mechanics and options and they have always been my favorite race since BW. it just feels that on most maps, zerg don't the ability to utilize their strengths.
1- maps are considerably smaller in sc2 than they were in sc1 and both terran and toss have stronger harass/rush openings, so zerg FE is suicide in many cases
2- maps have less open space and more chokes in sc2, so terran/toss can wall of easier and hold off huge zerg attacks without having to worry about surrounds or ambushes
3- maps in sc2 have cliffs everywhere, which allows terran to abuse vikings, tank drops, thor
drops (this is especially tough for zerg because, unlike in BW, we have no anti air units in T1 other than queens)
I totally agree with you. Most of the Balance issues could be solved by more balanced maps.
But blizzard said, that there will only be small maps in the ladder Map pool because of noobfriendlyness.
I also think that Zerg is a bit weaker because they don't have a Unit that really does aoe or that can catch an opponent off guard like Hellions, Tanks, Colossi, Templar, Dt's, Banshees, Reapers, Voidrays.
So, even though you could Tech switch very fast as zerg, the lack of options makes it really hard to surpise an enemy and still being able to defend your bases.
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The fact that a lot of terran players think terran is too strong proves it.
I think the same and I also play terran.
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On July 21 2010 02:40 Necrosjef wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 22:48 Sadistx wrote:On July 20 2010 21:38 Necrosjef wrote:On July 20 2010 21:14 Sadistx wrote:
How many threads are you zergs going to make to make yourself feel better about losing to terrans? I've seriously lost count. Your main argument is basically "tanks imba". I've yet to see a single replay confirming this, maybe because no one here is actually good enough to provide such high level reps. How about contribute something useful to the discussion or GTFO? You should probably take that advice and post some replays instead of the nonsense from your previous posts. Go watch Intotherainbow vs Dimaga http://day9tv.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dcBasic showcase of how Terran is broken.
...because blind roach building before expo is a good strategy. Right. Oh and let's do it two games in a row. And forget focusing the scvs repairing the depot even though roaches can hit them, just let the bunker go from 175 hp to 170 and back again until all the roaches are dead. And not sac an overlord to see what tech terran is getting until there's two cloaked banshee in my mineral line.
C'mon man you can't be serious. Dimaga played desperate from the very beginning.
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Back when all we had to look at where the blizzard show matches with David Kim everyone already said that Zerg were the worst race. Buth in strength and polish/fun factor. And back then I decided to play Zerg, to show that they are strong, and can be fun.
I still think though they are behind the other races in both regards and they never caught up to the other races in the months since. But in my opinion it's worse that they are comparatively bland in comparison than that they are weaker in comparison. They are not swarmy like Zerg should be, the spells are all kind of lame in comparison (fungal growth is by far the best one, in usefulness and coolness, and that tells yo something).
Anyway. Since the beta started I have seen a lot of casts, and since decided to be random, because there are far too many things I wanna try with the other races too.
I'm still kind of disappointed with how Zerg turned out over the course of the beta. Whenever I thought they had an opportunity to make them cool and more varied in gameplay, they sort of did the opposite. The infested terran is the poster child for that. Few things were more ridiculed and shunned than this spell on the infestor. And in the last patch before the end they basically returned it to the original state everyone hated.
All that is to hope left is the first expansion, that is supposed to be Zerg centric.
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I don't really feel that there is a better or worse race, just different ways to play..
Tho I feel like Terran is really really boring with MMM and tanks+vikings. I'm kinda split on playing either zerg or toss, toss is more straight forward and has more units to play around with. Tho that zerg macro can be so powerful.. and <3 Mutas.
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Terran is obviously the strong race right now. Terran itself may not be overpowered, but Zerg and Protoss have to have much higher APM in order to be on par with Terran, and that's an unfair burden. For the worst race, Zerg and Protoss are both contenders. Zerg has less unit diveristy, but every unit is a staple unit. Protoss has the carrier and the mothership which I wouldn't count as units. In PvZ, the protoss early game push is quite strong, while Zerg dominates the midgame with muta-ling and late game with broodlords. Which race is stronger is still a tossup.
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Terran are easy.
Protoss seem to be balanced.
Zerg are my hardest.
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Let's at least see some map changes before we declare "Zerg is terrible and Terran is OP" as the law of the land
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On July 21 2010 05:19 Chairman Ray wrote:
Terran is obviously the strong race right now. Terran itself may not be overpowered, but Zerg and Protoss have to have much higher APM in order to be on par with Terran, and that's an unfair burden. For the worst race, Zerg and Protoss are both contenders. Zerg has less unit diveristy, but every unit is a staple unit. Protoss has the carrier and the mothership which I wouldn't count as units. In PvZ, the protoss early game push is quite strong, while Zerg dominates the midgame with muta-ling and late game with broodlords. Which race is stronger is still a tossup.
My APM is naturally higher when playing Z over Terran. I mean 20-30 APM higher... and I'm not playing any different.
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Does everyone realize that Blizzard has a shitload of statistics they use to balance the game? They know the win loss ratio of every race, in every matchup, and in every league from bottom bronze to top diamond. They know where races are strong and where races are weak. The truth is that Terran is the most played race because they are human, and humans are naturally inclined to play that race first. At the upper levels it has been proven that both protoss and zerg are extremely competetive and powerful, perhaps more so than terran. The balance in this game is not perfect by any means, and it varies by skill level. At the upper skill levels it appears very balanced, although zerg is probably the strongest race and terran the weakest but by very small margins.
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god, so many people speaking without thinking first. SO ANNOYING
they drown out the reasonable posts. like this one.
On July 20 2010 11:00 tfmdjeff wrote:
Zerg, though it is my main race and always will be, is the worst race. The thing is, both terran and protoss have dedicated counters to most units. Zerg does not. Zerg has to rely on sheer numbers to overpower an army. Now, I know that can be true for all races, but I mean a protoss army could beat a zerg army twice its size with proper unit composition. Zerg can't do that, it really doesn't have as many counter units. The only unit Zerg units that were designed to be a hard counter to something are the corruptor (bonus vs massive), baneling (bonus vs light) and the ultralisk (bonus vs armored). The others simply don't have that. The roach has a base damage, plus nothing vs nothing. Same with the hydralisk, zergling, and mutalisk. Zerg can't rely on unit composition as much as the other 2 races. It's more crude, the way to win is, for the most part, with larger numbers and sheer brute force. You can get creative with infestors and overseers, but you still have to have a larger army. I feel that if zerg had a few more useful spells (all they really have now are fungal growth and contaminate, not even NP since it has such a short time limit now), it would really change the dynamics of zerg play, and it might not get an overwhelming 68% of votes for worst race.
Yet still, i love Zerg because I can macro hardcore like no other race can do, and even though it technically lacks in depth, when you start to get creative with your micro, it becomes a lot of fun.
I agree 100% with this. repostan for justice
I'd like to play zerg the most, but it's just not a good choice right now. late game is truly boring!
it's pretty useless to say that this or that is OP. if any unit were to be OP, people would see that immediately and begin massing ONLY that. that's obviously not the case. Yes, of course there are differences, but they are SLIGHT, and always will be unless Blizzard hires incompetent devs.
So as has been pointed out numerous times, Terran and Protoss are pretty even, while it's quite obvious that Zerg desperately need a few more units, and/or more variety. what for? not exactly "balance" as in power, but "balance" as in strategic variety.
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It seems like people don't understand the difference between "that's OP" and "I suck" which can feel the same a lot of the time. Yes, Terran can turtle and be 50 IQ 50 APM morons and 1a over you... if you suck. I would agree that SC 2 is not balanced at the lower levels, but frankly if you can't be bothered to L2P too bad for you.
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Even if Terran needs less APM... doesn't mean OP though... equivalent of SC1 protoss!
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I do think most people that didn't play the beta and jump right into campaign and then into multiplayer will go Terran.
They have played a lot with that race, know which units are good against other units and which are bad.
They will feel more comfortable with Terran then with any other race.
I forsee 40-50% terran players.
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im zerg top 10 diamondI and think all races are balanced by now at like 95%
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On July 21 2010 06:04 TymerA wrote:
I do think most people that didn't play the beta and jump right into campaign and then into multiplayer will go Terran.
They have played a lot with that race, know which units are good against other units and which are bad.
They will feel more comfortable with Terran then with any other race.
I forsee 40-50% terran players.
cool story bro
User was warned for this post
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EPT
