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gdroxor
United States639 Posts
On July 17 2010 17:50 NotJack wrote: If you have a good mindset and discipline in SC2, you could honestly make it to diamond league in a week. this makes me feel bad  | ||
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mcneebs
Canada391 Posts
On July 17 2010 17:56 TheRecliner wrote: Starcraft 2 is outside of your natural habitat. Youve been playing FPS games for years, and you are very comfortable with them. And when you started out Im willing to bet money that you only did it for fun and sort of did not care about performance. At some point you started to, but it was not a huge deal in the beginning. . Wow! This is perfect! Yes. I never got into FPS games thinking "Okay, this is how to control AK recoil" or studying spam spots to shoot through walls. I was a kid and played for fun. Then I got better, and moved up and up and up. Now I have that competitive mindset in that that's how games should be learned, but the genres are complete opposites. That's one of the things that drew me into SC2, the fact that every ladder game is competitive. | ||
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Herculix
United States946 Posts
with SC2, you literally have to build up your mind to be able to process all the information at the speed you need to, so naturally you can't operate on the level you'd like from the very beginning, and you'll have to take more rest because your brain works too hard. the one thing that you just need to remember is every time you put in the time, so much so that you have to rest from exhaustion, it'll be a little bit easier the next time as long as you keep it up. | ||
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
honestly i'm not trying to be a progamer or anything so it's ok with me if it takes a long time to improve but it seems like the physically and mentally draining part is just a matter of forcing yourself to play a little more than you think you can on a particular day. kinda like normal exercise i guess. | ||
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Thall
Switzerland214 Posts
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ChanChan
Australia18 Posts
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soullogik
United States1171 Posts
The most important thing is to have fun. Fun to me, is besting some1 who's equally skilled or better than me. | ||
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mptj
United States485 Posts
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NotJack
United States737 Posts
I don't mean it negatively, and I'm really speaking for those with the best discipline. It shouldn't make you feel like you're a bad player though, just that you approach the game with a less than optimal mindset. If anything you should feel good because you can make major improvements that don't have to deal with bad mechanics habits that can be annoying. On July 17 2010 18:05 Herculix wrote: i came from FPS too and i get a similar problem, but i can play longer than that. think about it like actual physical training. FPS just doesn't take the mental strain, even the twitchiest shooter doesn't. you don't have to think about 20 things every second, at most it's less than 10, and when you are trying to predict people's intentions, you do it over the span of 10-30ish seconds in an FPS versus minutes on top of guessing what style they are using/will change to. This is exactly why QL duel's are a very good comparison to SC. They are something most players try to avoid as it puts a magnifying glass on their gameplay as well as pitting them directly against another player with no excuses. Duels also make you keep track of many things just like SC and is another reason people have trouble massing them. | ||
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butchji
Germany1531 Posts
On July 17 2010 14:35 Zombo Joe wrote: I am in the exact same position as you right now. I have never played a game that takes such a toll on me. Now I see why Husky didn't play and do any commentaries when he was sick. So you didn't play BroodWar? It's like quadruple as demanding as SC2. ^^ | ||
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Welmu
Finland3295 Posts
On July 17 2010 14:46 Butigroove wrote: Haha compared to broodwar, SC2 is like a relaxing vacation to me. My first game of bw when beta was down I was so sad afterwards because it was sooo hard. Idle drones everywhere. Eventually I got used to it, and now SC2 seems easy again. Yeah, after 30+ min PvT I always had to take some rest... | ||
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HubertFelix
France631 Posts
In SC2, I need ~5-10 games to feel tired, but it's different. It's more about losing concentration. I think you won't need much time if you play regularly. In SC2, the macro mecanics and the illimited control groups make the game SO MUCH less exhausting. You will master SC2 mechanics really fast, and the "second nature" thing will come. Don't worry, it'll go away  | ||
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Renseru
United States45 Posts
I've been playing FPSers, RTSs, and RPGs, for about 10 years. Later, when I moved to playing poker I had a hard time playing optimally for long periods. So, I decided to do something similar to the following to improve my mental focus and fortitude. You need to break up the game into smaller steps. The first thing you should do is get a basic understanding of the in game mechanic, and then general strategy. Both of these are things I would assume from your initial post you have a decent feel for. Next I would start out with the YABOT by your self, many times in a row. Feel free to try out some of the other training maps too. Once you've gotten that down move to playing vs AI and incrementally increase their difficulty. I believe that if you can beat medium AI consistently you are bronze to low end silver, so you can extrapolate from there where you want to be on the ladder. Each level of AI you can beat will only put you on the low end of w/e ladder bracket your playing at since players are much more dynamic than AI. Before you even start playing against tougher competition, save replays vs AI to go back and watch replays to learn where you need to improve. Things like timing, idle worker usage, idle army usage, harassment, etc. Only focus on ONE or TWO of the things you need to improve on at a time. If your trying to find and fix all your mistakes at the same time its going to take you longer than just breaking the game up into smaller pieces. Cliff Notes: Break the huge game of SC2 into smaller pieces and then practice each piece with repetition. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On July 17 2010 17:50 NotJack wrote: If by "good mindset and discipline" is meant RTS experience and competitive gaming experience, then sure. Otherwise in the first week one'd still be realizing the difference between workers and combat units, and that's normal. (one should try with their grandmother - and be amazed by her lack of good mindset and discipline)If you have a good mindset and discipline in SC2, you could honestly make it to diamond league in a week. | ||
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HubertFelix
France631 Posts
Starcraft 2 is an easy rts for people who played older rts like BW, but a new RTS player will definitly no go diamond in one week with just "good discipline". You have so much reflexes and automatisms from other games. For example, you can manage to play while taking care of your mini map. | ||
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
On July 17 2010 18:46 NotJack wrote: I don't mean it negatively, and I'm really speaking for those with the best discipline. It shouldn't make you feel like you're a bad player though, just that you approach the game with a less than optimal mindset. If anything you should feel good because you can make major improvements that don't have to deal with bad mechanics habits that can be annoying. This is exactly why QL duel's are a very good comparison to SC. They are something most players try to avoid as it puts a magnifying glass on their gameplay as well as pitting them directly against another player with no excuses. Duels also make you keep track of many things just like SC and is another reason people have trouble massing them. I'm an avid QL/Q3 duel/ctf player, so I was a bit confused at some of the comments here saying that FPS's are casual/easy by definition. They are every bit as difficult and taxing in 1v1 scenario's given that your opponent is equally good and you're not playing some shitty game like MW2. However, I can easily mass those. Not so with SC2/SC, at least in the beginning. The only difference being that losing in an FPS duel is more gradual. It's lots of little losses (deaths that give the opponent points), but other than that you start over with a clean slate once you respawn. Of course there are more lasting effects like losing map control because of dying, or losing timing of megahealh/armors, but generally you can come back from this. I really think the crux of the problem is the multitasking. All this talk about how all non-SC players are casuals that can't handle the competition is missing the point, IMO. This is not some sort of elite high-stakes mental clash that breaks people's nerves, it's a videogame. Learning multitasking requires two things that newcomers to the game quite often haven't mastered: Being able to think in terms of the game itself, instead of 'talking to yourself' (because that's too slow), and being very, very comfortable with the interface and hotkeys. Newcomers will be multitasking nearly as much as seasoned players, however, they will be multitasking their attention between strategy/tactics and how the hell to build units and use the interface and what the possible counters could be, while the seasoned players will be able to devote all their attention to strategy/tactics. This leaves the newcomers with less mental capacity to devote to the game itself. Also, once recommendation that you really should follow is to get a steady practice partner. I am of the firm belief that it's a LOT harder to learn mechanics/macro AND strategy at the same time, ideally you would want to 'fixate' one while practicing the other. This makes ladder games a tough way to learn. You could be 8pooled one game, void ray rushed the next, requiring quick reactions and adjustment that take your attention away from what you're trying to practice. If you just agree with your practice partner that he is only going to 2gate you, you know what's coming and more or less what to do, so you can actually devote your attention to improving your play, whether that be mechanics, macro, keeping money low, constant pylons, etc. | ||
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Merikh
United States918 Posts
Personally I can throw 5-6 practice games back to back without breaks, then when it comes to ladder I get this "oh shit" moment. Because ladder is "serious business" to me I'm at this "I don't want to lose" state and as many wins as I can get, 1 loss will throw my day away and I need to get out of this habit soon. The other things that I think makes me stop at 6-7 games a day is the map pool and variety of options that the game current has to offer. One of those being (I don't have my box copy yet ^^) another thing is my metal state right now is "don't burn out before release", I've been saying this to myself everyday since the phase 1 and I think my mind is programmed to that right now. Like you said, I can watch hours and hours and hours of tournaments, live streams, my replays after I'm done playing but once I hit that crucial number of games I sort of just stop playing. Personally I think once launch comes, it'll all change. For me at least. It seems like this for all games that I buy. I can play games for 5-6 hours straight without breaks, but when it comes to beta's or free games and what not. I don't put as many hours into them because it doesn't "mean" anything yet. It's just a taste of what we'll get at release. What I'm really excited about is once everyone gets starcraft 2 and all these communities collide I got a feeling we'll see a TON and I mean a TON of new strategy/techniques showing at release. That's what I'm looking forward to right now, and new maps. I think I've burnt out on all maps except metalopolis lol I'm just tired of seeing Lost Temple, Blistering Sands, Steppes and according to DustinB there are 10 maps at launch (We have 7, so 3 new 1v1 maps and a possibility that they remove some of the phase 1 maps out). There could be a number of other reasons why I just can't put in X amount of games. I think my ladder amount is at almost 30 games, whilst my custom is hitting 45ish. Total games played is at least 60-70 at this point. Which isn't bad for a little under 2 weeks of beta, but isn't nothing compared to what some people put into the phase 2. | ||
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Mutalisk
288 Posts
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_Epic
United States34 Posts
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Uranium
United States1077 Posts
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