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I've been learning starcraft for the last few months, and I feel I have been going about it the right way, in spite of having no friends (IRL or otherwise) that play with me. I study the liquipedia, watch the streams, and every night after work I throw on the day9 daily. I do a lot of lurking on the forums and occasionally throw in my two cents. I never cry foul on balance issues, and try to develop solid techniques. When it comes to playing the game, however, I can't play for more than an hour.
I can play CS, TF2, basically any FPS for hours. I've been playing them so long that it's just easy, and aim and decision making has come naturally to me. But even when I first got into playing FPS games, they never fatigued me so much as starcraft has. There have been times in large tournaments that I've felt mentally wiped after an intense match in CS 1.6, but I've never had a map change in a public server and said "wow, I need a break".
After I finish playing a game of starcraft, I need to take a break. Not just to watch the replay and reflect on all my mistakes (and trust me there are a ton), but because the game just wears me out so fast.
make SCVs, hows the food, rax almost finished?, remember to scan, rally points ok?, build an ebay, get that upgrade? shit i forgot that depo, okay now i'm supply blocked, throw down an expansion, damn mutas are here, pull scvs and on and on and on.
I'm sure there comes a point where you just do these things without having to consciously think about them, but for me it's such an incredibly difficult process to keep up with. I commend you 200APM players who can just sit there and mass games, but I just feel that I can't ever put in 4-5 hours of starcraft. I love the game. I could watch gretorp's stream for hours. It's awesome. It's just so difficult to climb up this steep learning curve.
Win or lose, gold or diamond, those dedicated to getting better through massing games have my respect. How did you get over this initial hump of being able to execute actions without consciously making every decisioin?
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I am in the exact same position as you right now.
I have never played a game that takes such a toll on me.
Now I see why Husky didn't play and do any commentaries when he was sick.
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I am that way too. but the thing is, thats with ladder only for me.
try getting a practice partner or something.
That way, you can discuss games and with someone you can relate to.
it helps alot as well, if you go into vent/skype/ts with them and just bs the whole time.
i can't play more then 3 or so ladder games without needing to take a break. But i can easily mass 100 games with people i can relate to.
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I logged on the other day and played one practice game with my buddy. While it was the best game I've had in all of beta, I haven't been able to play since because the game was so long and tiring.
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I just play a lot. The game is always mentally taxing IMO, it's just a matter of how much stress you can handle. Eventually all the things that drive your brain into hyper-drive will become 2nd nature, and won't be as big of a deal on your brain. So just play, a lot. 
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I think it gets to a point where it becomes natural. You don't need to 'think' too much once you've been exposed. Think of it like driving a car or even better a stick shift. At first, it is so chaotic because its just so many things that you worry/focus on. Later on, some things become natural and your mind only focuses on so many things at once.
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i usually only need a break when i just played an intense game which is 30 minutes or longer.
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I know exactly what you mean, and its a damn strange change to me. I've been playing videogames in whatever form for over 20 years. Sitting down and playing something for 12+ hours at least once a week is nothing unusual to me. I have played all the games you mention above and many others, but nothing has ever fatigued me like SC.
The only solution I have found is to force "One more game" every time I get "that feeling".
If one game knocks you out, push forward and play that second.
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I think it's the high stakes and the longer games/1on1 nature of the game in relation to FPS games.
I'm in the same boat, I am a hardcore TF2 player and playing SC2 I get all sweaty and when it's finished no matter if I won or not I can't play anymore and go back to playing TF2.
In TF2 when you lose you just respawn 10 seconds later and get right back to it, my mind also tends to go crazy when I play, thinking vigorously and I feel extremely overwhelmed nearing the endgame; It`s become enough that I haven`t even picked the game back up since the beta went down before.
AND WHY DOES PLAYING SC2 MAKE ME HAVE TO GO TO THE BATHROOM SO BAD, JESUS.
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Haha compared to broodwar, SC2 is like a relaxing vacation to me.
My first game of bw when beta was down I was so sad afterwards because it was sooo hard. Idle drones everywhere. 
Eventually I got used to it, and now SC2 seems easy again.
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I know what you mean. I used to play a lot of CS1.6 and would scrim for hours upon hours but it's very hard for me to play SC2 games back-to-back.
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From day9 and gretorp, having small goals not directly about winning, such as these few games im not going to get supply capped, or have my creep expanded to my 3rd before i expand there. Also dedicating a certain specific amount of time to starcraft, and leaving it unambiguous, such as from 3-6 im going to play starcraft solidly, save all the replays and watch them all at a 8-9.
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it's prolly b/c most other games that you play are for casuals.
BW and even WC3 players won't feel that SC2 requires more effort (in fact it's usually less)
just like i get dizzy watching my friend play FPS at crazy high sensitivity, your mind prolly can't handle all the multitasking yet.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
you have to learn to really enjoy the stress and the mental challenges. its hard i know but once you do, its magical, addictive and richly rewarding.
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SC2 is actually really easy in comparison to brood war. Generally, in the SC1, I had over 4000 mins and gas regularly in late game because I couldn't macro well. I rarely go above 1500 in SC2 late game.
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100% agree with the OP. I've come from a huge FPS background as well, and like the OP, I can play those for hours. But one intense game of SC, and I literally walk out of my room, shut the light off, and go downstairs. Usually I don't even turn on the tv. I relax by playing with my puppy outside, but the mental fatigue sc does to me is insane. I'm not sure if its just more time playing, but I've never played a game that physically tires me out.
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it hard for me to start a session but once i do i usually play for 25+ games in a row.
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It's because of the one on one environment. A lot of "competitive" gamers aren't used to it. I use quotes because many consider them such, but haven't really done anything on a personal level. It's one thing to take full responsibility for EVERYTHING. Where as you're playing CS and some douche blocks you and you get destroyed, it's easy to look past what you did. It's the intimate one on one environment that gets you, probably.
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I think it's the 1v1 aspect, the razor-sharp competitive nature of the game. 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, even FFA are all very relaxed and fun. Why? Well, you're not judged in any way, if you lose it's not necessarily your fault, you have teammates to fall back on if you mess up, etc. But in 1v1, if you screw up, it's because *you screwed up*. In a finely balanced game like Starcraft, losing means that the other guy is better than you in some way. He outsmarted you, or had better reflexes, or had a more solid plan going into the game.
The game is easy to understand when you're on the outside looking in. Watching dailies and streams makes it seem so easy and intuitive. But when you're actually in the game, head to head with an equally skilled opponent that could run you over if you so much as hit the wrong hotkey, the pressure can be too much to handle.
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I definitely need a break after about 5 games.
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SC2 and especially brood war just take so much more thinking. There's so many more ways to improve your game, so many things you could be doing better at every moment.
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I know how you are feeling. But I've noticed that once you get past the early game dullness. When you are mentally tired once you get to the intense action you get into the game and you wont feel tired until you win or lose.
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I think a lot of people feel this way. Once you get used to the idea of playing mass games or practicing something in particular you'll be able to sit down for a lot longer and grind out some games.
I think a lot of it has to do with the pressure of the losses. In a lot of other RTS games you're able to make multiple accounts... so you can have a practice account and a main account and stuff like that where you just sit on practice accounts for days grinding out games not caring if you lose a lot. SC2 is going to change this... having 1 account and having to pay money for another is going to really cause a lot of people to be conservative with their gaming at first I think.
But once you start playing a lot you'll feel a lot better and it won't be so taxing... every button you push will eventually end up being 2nd nature.
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I'm the same way. Games like TF2 were always fairly easy to me.
I picked up Starcraft and they all became INCREDIBLY easy. Never have I done something so ridiculously taxing. I usually have to stop after 5-10 games, either because I'm tired, or because if I lose one more time I might go off on some killing rampage.
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if i win like five in a row i just automatically stop. if i keep losing, i keep playing and it makes me rage whenever i do stupid mistakes and stuff its really quite unhealthy.
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On July 17 2010 14:32 mcneebs wrote:
Win or lose, gold or diamond, those dedicated to getting better through massing games have my respect. How did you get over this initial hump of being able to execute actions without consciously making every decisioin?
I get everything up to this point, can you be more specific as to whether your asking how does one mass game, or how did I get my APM high and not have to spam it. (aka: its a natural part of play)
EDIT: Ok so after sifting through all the posts, I've come to conclude what it was that you meant exactly. Heres my response. Part of why you may be getting tired or what I call the "no-longer-interested" syndrome can be due to the lack of chat channels, and clans. With a clan on SC:BW I've always felt like there was something to due, someone to talk to, whether it be playing with them or observing them, and I always had a separate friends list. (aka: iCCup system). This "N-L-I" can also be caused because it is boring to have to mass game using the Ladder system in order to be sure of a half decent to equal game. On BW, anyone can create a game and call it "1vs1 Metal Play/Obs" and soon after you will have all of the observer slots filled as well as player slots. In these games however noobs would rather watch, and the better players are playing, so you still get that competitive edge. Even if it was noobs playing, you would still have fun, because the better players would just leave and the rest would have fun watching and chit chatting. This always created a very fun to be around environment on battle.net.
Before SC2 came out, I was literally always playing BW. Even when I got bored I could still play, now that Battle.net 2.0 has come out I believe it has stripped a lot of the things that gave people that motivation to mass game. For instance on BW you can use the Ladder system, and if ever you got bored, you would just have to create a "1vs1 Metal Play/Obs" game. With this you would just watch anyone play, or /stats the players for the best possible records and let them play instead, or you could play and let others observe you. There used to be so many possibilities. So keep in mind while I say all of this, that SC2 is still in the beta stage.
One last note, and that is my second reason as to why I think you may not be able to play as much as you want. With age, gaming can become boring. I find myself not being able to mass game anything anymore. So I think eventually age just catches up with you and starts making things too boring when you are stuck alone for too long. The mind can only take so much solitude especially when you are not caged. So be free!!!!!
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I use to have this problem, and one day my friend told me some good advice to get over it. he told me to stop trying to play perfectly because it's not going to happen any time soon, just practice, don't worry about losing and try to have some fun. now massing becomes easy, and it gets easier the more you do it
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I genrally play a couple of games then I need a break. But Starcraft 2 has kept me enthraled since the beta started I havent been this obbsed with a game since well ever.
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For me it's not so much about fatigue, but frustration, even when i win, i don't know why, SC2 just leaves me with frustration after every game, i normally ragequit. It's weird.
That means that normally i cannot play more than 2 o 3 games in a row without alt-f4ing angry at myself, but somehow i enjoy it, and open the game 5 minutes later LOL. :/
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I'm taking a break from playing right now.
Yeah, when you don't have basic macro as second nature yet it's very tough to maintain your stamina. It's much less intense than it used to be for me (sc2 is also less intense than bw because the mechanics are easier), but I still don't usually play more than 3 games in a row without some down time.
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I envy all of you who can mass games, i personally am a pussy and i will go browse these forums or find any other excuse to get a break after...1-2 games :|
Its so mentally taxing, and the adrenaline... and getting pissed that you cant do things as fast as your mind wants to. I just MUST take a break for all that to subside and wore out because i dont like the thought of starting a new game instantly while being in such state. And the worst part is that i love this game, but i cant make myself play it as much as i would want to.
I think its the whole 100% focus that effects me so hard, if somebody walks into a room and asks me a question when im in the middle of the match i literally am unable to process what they are saying. Even after an easy win i feel tired because my focus is still the same.
I feel handicapped :|
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I'm experiencing the same thing and I can usually only do about 4 or 5 games of 1v1 before I switch to 2v2 or 3v3 for a while because those are usually much more relaxed. I would like to re-ask the OP's last question slightly differently: When did you get over this initial hump of being able to execute actions without consciously making every decisioin? I have only played about 30 1v1 games and it is getting a little easier I think. How many games did it take you to get comfortable?
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On July 17 2010 15:18 Skvid wrote:
and getting pissed that you cant do things as fast as your mind wants to.
This is one of the few things I hated about bw. I've probably watched over 10,000 reps and knew my strategy inside and out but never had mechanics to back it up. Nothing is more frustrating than knowing what you need to do but having sloppy hands that can't execute it well.
On July 17 2010 15:25 xorpwnz wrote:
I'm experiencing the same thing and I can usually only do about 4 or 5 games of 1v1 before I switch to 2v2 or 3v3 for a while because those are usually much more relaxed. I would like to re-ask the OP's last question: How did you get over this initial hump of being able to execute actions without consciously making every decisioin? I have only played about 30 1v1 games and it is getting a little easier I think.
Just play more and train yourself to use every shortcut you can. Ex) use b+e to make an extractor instead of clicking, try to use the numerical hotkeys for everything you possibly can. Sc2 is a lot easier to break into than bw both because the mechanics are so much easier and the auto-matchmaking system is great. Nothing was more discouraging than searching for 10 minutes for a match at your level on iccup and then find out you're playing a guy on his way to A-.
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Oh yeah i hear you man, after 4-5 games i need to get up, take a piss, get a drink, watch a replay or 2, maybe play some guitar, get my mind off of the game a little bit. Even after winning, it is very mentally taxing i agree. And Im only about a 100 apm player, but when i get ramped up sometimes i get to 150-200 sustained, and my god it just feels like my brain and hands are going a million miles an hour.
Only thing i can compare it to is playing guitar, and shredding on some crazy solo/lead work. After a while your brain just sort of "gets it" and you do alot of things automatically, becomes second nature. Just like learning guitar though, it takes a while to get to that point, but its all jsut repetition and going over your mistakes and trying to correct them.
If you can look at your games (especially losses) with a clear head, identify your mistakes and proactively try to correct them you will become a great player very quickly. And when i say very quickly, i mean a few months or so. Keep in mind, there are alot of people who played SC for 10 years or so, and are now playing SC2. You just can't compare that kind of experience and reflexes/mental conditioning to someone whos very new to it. Just keep at it and try to have fun with it.
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Your brain is like any other muscle and SC2 is an intense mental workout. If you know anything about working out then you know the more you exert yourself the shorter amount of time you can do it. Playing other games, although a challenge is not only familiar, but extremely less complicated. For instance in a FPS when you die you have a respawn timer where you rest and don't have to do anything.
Lets take a look at 5x5 Squats and 20 rep squats. You do 5 reps and take a 1-5min break depending on how heavy you are lifting. I can squat 300lbs for 5x5 over the course of a little under 30min. However when I stalled and tried a new program to break me out of that, 20 rep squats I only started with 225lbs. It took maybe 1.5-2.5 minutes (can't remember its so intense) but since I didn't stop even that light weight I was dead after. My legs were like jello, I was out of breath for 15minutes, and I got really sore.
Starcraft is the 20rep squats of videogames and thats what it does to your mind (providing you are pushing yourself). Personally I can only play my best for a few hours and then I need a rest. Overtime you obviously develop less fatigue through efficiency but your brain also gets stronger for these tasks.
Thats my take on it anyway :D
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Same thing here, couldn't wait for phase 2 and I thought that when it would start I would play for like 5 hours every day but I play like 2-3 games every couple of hours. and that enough for me :|
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You get used to it after about 1500 games lol.
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I barely ever need breaks and find myself playing for hours straight staying up till 5 am when i said to myself that i would stop at 12
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The key is not caring whether you lose or not.
It's just a game. The best way to improve is to mass games and practice good technique while watching your replays to note mistakes. You can't mass games if you get pissed off every time you lose, this part is still hard for me because being very competitive I hate losing.
But early on if you're new to the RTS scene or SC in general you really don't have to focus on doing EVERYTHING at perfectly at the same time. You'll go batshit crazy trying to do that. Focus on the little things first, basics such as "are my minerals and gas low? If not what do I need to improve that?". Little things like that become second nature and you can move on to bigger things. Watching Day9 and Husky analysis really helps a lot with that for me.
If you try to think about everything at once you'll end up with an aneurysm. The key is to think about a few things over and over and over until they become second nature then add more gradually.
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thats what makes starcraft an art, aswell as the ridiculously broad skill range. a match between two high level, equally skilled players is immensely challenging and demanding. victory however, is extremely rewarding (im sure winning a GG has a neurochemical effect on people who play frequently).
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It depends on your mindset and how hard you press for each game. If you insist on playing each game as perfectly as possible, you may over-push and over-exhaust yourself. I've played sometimes over 24 hours in a row, but only if I just play "for fun", and don't mind having a little lower winning percentage than my usual. I did this with Random, so I knew I was going to lose more than usual anyway. And then it's different.
Of course, if you play each game as if it's part of the match of your life, you're getting tired very fast. Now, both extremes have traps. If you don't push too much, you won't really improve from all those games. But I think for newer players it's really better to get a lot of games under the belt - bad, good, whatever. And only when most situations in the game are very familiar and not that stressful, to begin to require optimal performance each time (with gradual steps as Day[9] advises). Hope this advice helps a little. Just don't be too serious in the beginning, if you prefer to get higher number of games. Look at your whole current account as a training account.
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You have to remember that because your playing, even if your losing, your still learning the game. You'll never stop learning, even if you are in the finals of the WCG. Also, remember that starcraft (1 or 2) is the hardest multiplayer game there is, and you have to actually believe it, and your losses/fatigue won't wear as much off of you.
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Wow you sound the exact same as me, i reckon your getting so tired because like me, you spend as much time watching and reading other peoples opinion on forum and day9 casts etc as you do playing the game for yourself. And when u watch and read so much you feel you should be able to do the stuff they can do and try and do just too much when you play. Well that what happened to me, and i found when i focussed on fewer things in game i'd get less drained and i wouldn't play worse then when i was trying to think about every little thing
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On July 17 2010 14:36 Repok wrote:
I think it gets to a point where it becomes natural. You don't need to 'think' too much once you've been exposed. Think of it like driving a car or even better a stick shift. At first, it is so chaotic because its just so many things that you worry/focus on. Later on, some things become natural and your mind only focuses on so many things at once.
I tin Repok says it the best out of everyone - If you look at the pros, though they're nearly mechanically perfect, they get the point where they don't have to think about everything and by looking at the current situation, quickly realize what priorities are important that need to be focused on. Taking his example further, its sort of like, when I'm driving on the freeway, do i need to be watching out for stupid people suddenly running across the freeway? No, I just need to pay attention to the car in front of me and the nearest cars of the 2 lanes beside me, but if I was driving through a residential area, or near a school around 3pm, I would be more aware and on the watch for these kind of things, and likewise pay less attention to the other cars around because we're all moving so much slower.
There's no way, even a pro, can think about every single detail all the time, and that's why in pro matches players are still able to slip in vultures, sneak a drop in, etc.
But with proper analysis of the current situation, you can be able to pick out what priorities you should focus on. For example, if you were playing zerg and your opponent being terran or protoss has already taken his natural before you, expanding would be pretty high on your priority list. If you guys are duking it out early with tier 1 units, it wouldn't be. If its late game, and both of you have 3 bases each, making sure your nexus is continually producing probes probably wouldn't be very high on your priorities list, but in the beginning this is crucial. These are all very easy examples, but as you play more and more games, you start recognizing more complicated situations and the priorities associated with them.
After realizing this, the best thing you can do, is to just take your games less seriously, I mean it's still the beta, your current rank right now doesn't really matter. Go with the flow, and if you lose, just skim over your replay, realize the priority you missed, and make a mental note of it the next time you find yourself in a similar situation.
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On July mcneebs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I've been learning starcraft for the last few months, and I feel I have been going about it the right way, in spite of having no friends (IRL or otherwise) that play with me. I study the liquipedia, watch the streams, and every night after work I throw on the day9 daily. I do a lot of lurking on the forums and occasionally throw in my two cents. I never cry foul on balance issues, and try to develop solid techniques. When it comes to playing the game, however, I can't play for more than an hour.
I can play CS, TF2, basically any FPS for hours. I've been playing them so long that it's just easy, and aim and decision making has come naturally to me. But even when I first got into playing FPS games, they never fatigued me so much as starcraft has. There have been times in large tournaments that I've felt mentally wiped after an intense match in CS 1.6, but I've never had a map change in a public server and said "wow, I need a break".
After I finish playing a game of starcraft, I need to take a break. Not just to watch the replay and reflect on all my mistakes (and trust me there are a ton), but because the game just wears me out so fast.
make SCVs, hows the food, rax almost finished?, remember to scan, rally points ok?, build an ebay, get that upgrade? shit i forgot that depo, okay now i'm supply blocked, throw down an expansion, damn mutas are here, pull scvs and on and on and on.
I'm sure there comes a point where you just do these things without having to consciously think about them, but for me it's such an incredibly difficult process to keep up with. I commend you 200APM players who can just sit there and mass games, but I just feel that I can't ever put in 4-5 hours of starcraft. I love the game. I could watch gretorp's stream for hours. It's awesome. It's just so difficult to climb up this steep learning curve.
Win or lose, gold or diamond, those dedicated to getting better through massing games have my respect. How did you get over this initial hump of being able to execute actions without consciously making every decisioin?
mass gamers were BW players, which taxes you the most.
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I would imagine that the differences you feel between FPS and RTS is due to the fact that you have little breaks in an FPS game, i.e. a corridor where you know the opponent can not shoot you in the next two seconds or so. In Starcraft you dont have that, because you are kept busy by having to organize your own bases, troops and resources. If you had to store your ammo, reload weapons or apply bandages manually (set of key combinations for example), ... in an FPS game you would be taxed A LOT more, but you dont have to do it. Just run over the medkit and get healed, just run over the pack of ammo and its stored in your ammo belt.
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On July 17 2010 15:05 wishbones wrote:
The mind can only take so much solitude especially when you are not caged. So be free!!!!!
Conclusion: If you want to mass game you should be locked in a cage while playing SC2?
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welcome to the RTS world and specifically Starcraft :D definitely not just a game but a good exercise for multitasking :D
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2v2s let you practise your builds and generally go quicker in my experience. you either win or lose a vast majority of them @ platinum level in 16-20 mins. maybe try grinding them for awhile till the game comes more naturally to you.
whenever im super tired i play 2v2 random ladder so i dont fk up my 1v1 rankz too bad.
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FPS games dont usually wear down players as much as SC cause if you have noticed, in FPS games, you only need to worry about your character and your role in the team. naturally the strategy of the team goes well if each player takes good care of their character. but unlike in SC you need to take care of your army, your bases and map control. the same games to DotA since you know the game does not rely entirely on your hands, the pressure you experience is lesser compared to what you experience when you play SC.
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In bw i played like 4 games vs pc before going into bnet just to get the macro going. I had always one condition for my warmup games like to get 200 supply under 13 min with terran. When your mind handles the macro aspect for himself you are able to think about the important things and wont get stressed out by building units and buildings. All comes natural with mass gaming and the right goals to improve.
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I can only play up to 3 games. After that I feel like I'm too tired to learn anything so I see it as a non-rewarding waste of time. I like this though because it means I'm actually having breaks from the computer for once.
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On July 17 2010 17:24 Fantistic wrote:
I can only play up to 3 games. After that I feel like I'm too tired to learn anything so I see it as a non-rewarding waste of time. I like this though because it means I'm actually having breaks from the computer for once.
That's more or less what I do. I find Sc2 mentally stressful right now. =(
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Same i dont even get why exactly it is that way for me. I can literally play other games including poker for 10h+ with small breaks. But sc2 is just different specially after i win a long macro game i just cant get myself to play another game..
I need sometimes DAYS to get myself to play more. I ll prolly wont be good in sc2 ever because of that fact.
When i had the beta first i was like wow ok i ll play 24h in a row to get better and get an advantage, but it simply wasnt possible. I dont know why its not exactly boring for me to play it just makes me so tired to do the same macro things over and over again.
The reward isnt there either i guess.
I could observer good games or watch replays for hours tho. Practising works as well in custom games. Just not ladder :/
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The game is incredibly mentally taxing for me. I'm already a perfectionist, so making hundreds of mistakes per game is frustrating enough. What I've done to remedy this is set a certain amount of time I'm going to play - say 3 hours. I mass games and don't stop until 3 hours is up. Slowly my mental stamina is increasing and I'm doing some things 'naturally' instead of having to think about them, which is freeing up my brain for other things, like strategy.
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Good to know that so many of you feel the same way as I do. It's reassuring. I do plan on sticking to it, and I do feel that this will become less of a problem as I become more experienced, but it sure does suck to have this fatigue tacked on to the many other things that I have to work on.
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If you get tired from one game you're probably taking it too seriously as well, but the more you play the easier splitting will get, along with scouting, reacting, and basic builds. That's when you'll really notice you being able to play faster and faster.
I came from BW so it's really easy to spam games since everything is more comfortable in SC2, but when I started out in BW the only reason I could mass games from the start was because I knew my only reason for massing was to improve; Not to win 100% of my games, but to improve.
If you have a good mindset and discipline in SC2, you could honestly make it to diamond league in a week.
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On July 17 2010 17:35 theRiverX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 17:24 Fantistic wrote:
I can only play up to 3 games. After that I feel like I'm too tired to learn anything so I see it as a non-rewarding waste of time. I like this though because it means I'm actually having breaks from the computer for once. That's more or less what I do. I find Sc2 mentally stressful right now. =(
It is a bit stressful right now but the more you play, the more the stress goes away.
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I can deal with it mentally but my arm tells me it will fall off if I keep playing after 2 to 4 games (an hour or so of gameplay).
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On July 17 2010 14:32 mcneebs wrote:
... I can play CS, TF2, basically any FPS for hours. I've been playing them so long that it's just easy, and aim and decision making has come naturally to me. But even when I first got into playing FPS games, they never fatigued me so much as starcraft has...
I am sort of in the same place. Its not a question of Starcraft being taxing per se. Are you relaxed when practising against the AI?
Starcraft 2 is outside of your natural habitat. Youve been playing FPS games for years, and you are very comfortable with them. And when you started out Im willing to bet money that you only did it for fun and sort of did not care about performance. At some point you started to, but it was not a huge deal in the beginning.
Now you are playing Starcraft, and the difference is that now you want flawless performance in a game that uses completely different mechanics, You watch streams, Day9's Daily and you want to perform like that. Only thats over your level. So you focus like mad and try to be awesome when youre not quite there yet.
Just take it easy and do one thing at a time. It's only the beta, man. Watch out. Dont burn out early. Learn to crawl before you run and you might enjoy this for years.
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On July 17 2010 17:50 NotJack wrote:
If you have a good mindset and discipline in SC2, you could honestly make it to diamond league in a week.
this makes me feel bad
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On July 17 2010 17:56 TheRecliner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 14:32 mcneebs wrote:
... I can play CS, TF2, basically any FPS for hours. I've been playing them so long that it's just easy, and aim and decision making has come naturally to me. But even when I first got into playing FPS games, they never fatigued me so much as starcraft has...
Starcraft 2 is outside of your natural habitat. Youve been playing FPS games for years, and you are very comfortable with them. And when you started out Im willing to bet money that you only did it for fun and sort of did not care about performance. At some point you started to, but it was not a huge deal in the beginning. .
Wow! This is perfect! Yes. I never got into FPS games thinking "Okay, this is how to control AK recoil" or studying spam spots to shoot through walls. I was a kid and played for fun. Then I got better, and moved up and up and up. Now I have that competitive mindset in that that's how games should be learned, but the genres are complete opposites. That's one of the things that drew me into SC2, the fact that every ladder game is competitive.
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i came from FPS too and i get a similar problem, but i can play longer than that. think about it like actual physical training. FPS just doesn't take the mental strain, even the twitchiest shooter doesn't. you don't have to think about 20 things every second, at most it's less than 10, and when you are trying to predict people's intentions, you do it over the span of 10-30ish seconds in an FPS versus minutes on top of guessing what style they are using/will change to.
with SC2, you literally have to build up your mind to be able to process all the information at the speed you need to, so naturally you can't operate on the level you'd like from the very beginning, and you'll have to take more rest because your brain works too hard.
the one thing that you just need to remember is every time you put in the time, so much so that you have to rest from exhaustion, it'll be a little bit easier the next time as long as you keep it up.
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i agree with this. it's gotten better though. when i started in the beta i could only really play 2 or 3 games at once and then that'd be it for the day, maybe another 2-3 games like 12 hours later. now though, i just massed games pretty much all day today. with lots of short breaks here and there. and some of them were team games which are less draining to me. but still i'm beginning to see how you build stamina through practice.
honestly i'm not trying to be a progamer or anything so it's ok with me if it takes a long time to improve but it seems like the physically and mentally draining part is just a matter of forcing yourself to play a little more than you think you can on a particular day. kinda like normal exercise i guess.
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i need shot break of a few minutes after ever 2-3 games (especially 20 min + ones)
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I find SC2 taxing on my computer's temperature.. and mentally taxing.. so it's a good mix cause i can take that 10 minute break in between games to let it cool down =D.
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I can sit down and 1v1 for 8+ hours with short breaks but just like the rest of you. A long game or a bad decision can end my night because of the amount of effort involved in the starcraft world. Just gotta stop, play with your dog, smoke a bowl, wuteva & allow your mind to settle.
The most important thing is to have fun.
Fun to me, is besting some1 who's equally skilled or better than me.
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This thread is interesting, for me I can mass games all I want all day. That said, I'm also not a good player by any means and I consistently get my ass kicked XD it doesn't bother me too much though.
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On July 17 2010 18:04 gdroxor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 17:50 NotJack wrote:
If you have a good mindset and discipline in SC2, you could honestly make it to diamond league in a week. this makes me feel bad
I don't mean it negatively, and I'm really speaking for those with the best discipline. It shouldn't make you feel like you're a bad player though, just that you approach the game with a less than optimal mindset.
If anything you should feel good because you can make major improvements that don't have to deal with bad mechanics habits that can be annoying.
On July 17 2010 18:05 Herculix wrote:
i came from FPS too and i get a similar problem, but i can play longer than that. think about it like actual physical training. FPS just doesn't take the mental strain, even the twitchiest shooter doesn't. you don't have to think about 20 things every second, at most it's less than 10, and when you are trying to predict people's intentions, you do it over the span of 10-30ish seconds in an FPS versus minutes on top of guessing what style they are using/will change to.
This is exactly why QL duel's are a very good comparison to SC. They are something most players try to avoid as it puts a magnifying glass on their gameplay as well as pitting them directly against another player with no excuses. Duels also make you keep track of many things just like SC and is another reason people have trouble massing them.
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On July 17 2010 14:35 Zombo Joe wrote:
I am in the exact same position as you right now.
I have never played a game that takes such a toll on me.
Now I see why Husky didn't play and do any commentaries when he was sick.
So you didn't play BroodWar? It's like quadruple as demanding as SC2. ^^
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On July 17 2010 14:46 Butigroove wrote:Haha compared to broodwar, SC2 is like a relaxing vacation to me. My first game of bw when beta was down I was so sad afterwards because it was sooo hard. Idle drones everywhere. Eventually I got used to it, and now SC2 seems easy again.
Yeah, after 30+ min PvT I always had to take some rest...
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Like some people above, I fell really tired (kind of physically) after a long broodwar game.
In SC2, I need ~5-10 games to feel tired, but it's different. It's more about losing concentration.
I think you won't need much time if you play regularly. In SC2, the macro mecanics and the illimited control groups make the game SO MUCH less exhausting. You will master SC2 mechanics really fast, and the "second nature" thing will come.
Don't worry, it'll go away
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Sadly most of these posts are of no help saying A: I agree, or B: Just play more... So I'll try to be more helpful.
I've been playing FPSers, RTSs, and RPGs, for about 10 years. Later, when I moved to playing poker I had a hard time playing optimally for long periods. So, I decided to do something similar to the following to improve my mental focus and fortitude.
You need to break up the game into smaller steps. The first thing you should do is get a basic understanding of the in game mechanic, and then general strategy. Both of these are things I would assume from your initial post you have a decent feel for. Next I would start out with the YABOT by your self, many times in a row. Feel free to try out some of the other training maps too.
Once you've gotten that down move to playing vs AI and incrementally increase their difficulty. I believe that if you can beat medium AI consistently you are bronze to low end silver, so you can extrapolate from there where you want to be on the ladder. Each level of AI you can beat will only put you on the low end of w/e ladder bracket your playing at since players are much more dynamic than AI.
Before you even start playing against tougher competition, save replays vs AI to go back and watch replays to learn where you need to improve. Things like timing, idle worker usage, idle army usage, harassment, etc. Only focus on ONE or TWO of the things you need to improve on at a time. If your trying to find and fix all your mistakes at the same time its going to take you longer than just breaking the game up into smaller pieces.
Cliff Notes: Break the huge game of SC2 into smaller pieces and then practice each piece with repetition.
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On July 17 2010 17:50 NotJack wrote:
If you have a good mindset and discipline in SC2, you could honestly make it to diamond league in a week. If by "good mindset and discipline" is meant RTS experience and competitive gaming experience, then sure. Otherwise in the first week one'd still be realizing the difference between workers and combat units, and that's normal. (one should try with their grandmother - and be amazed by her lack of good mindset and discipline)
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I totally agree.
Starcraft 2 is an easy rts for people who played older rts like BW, but a new RTS player will definitly no go diamond in one week with just "good discipline". You have so much reflexes and automatisms from other games. For example, you can manage to play while taking care of your mini map.
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On July 17 2010 18:46 NotJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 18:04 gdroxor wrote:On July 17 2010 17:50 NotJack wrote:
If you have a good mindset and discipline in SC2, you could honestly make it to diamond league in a week. this makes me feel bad I don't mean it negatively, and I'm really speaking for those with the best discipline. It shouldn't make you feel like you're a bad player though, just that you approach the game with a less than optimal mindset. If anything you should feel good because you can make major improvements that don't have to deal with bad mechanics habits that can be annoying. Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 18:05 Herculix wrote:
i came from FPS too and i get a similar problem, but i can play longer than that. think about it like actual physical training. FPS just doesn't take the mental strain, even the twitchiest shooter doesn't. you don't have to think about 20 things every second, at most it's less than 10, and when you are trying to predict people's intentions, you do it over the span of 10-30ish seconds in an FPS versus minutes on top of guessing what style they are using/will change to.
This is exactly why QL duel's are a very good comparison to SC. They are something most players try to avoid as it puts a magnifying glass on their gameplay as well as pitting them directly against another player with no excuses. Duels also make you keep track of many things just like SC and is another reason people have trouble massing them.
I'm an avid QL/Q3 duel/ctf player, so I was a bit confused at some of the comments here saying that FPS's are casual/easy by definition. They are every bit as difficult and taxing in 1v1 scenario's given that your opponent is equally good and you're not playing some shitty game like MW2.
However, I can easily mass those. Not so with SC2/SC, at least in the beginning.
The only difference being that losing in an FPS duel is more gradual. It's lots of little losses (deaths that give the opponent points), but other than that you start over with a clean slate once you respawn. Of course there are more lasting effects like losing map control because of dying, or losing timing of megahealh/armors, but generally you can come back from this.
I really think the crux of the problem is the multitasking. All this talk about how all non-SC players are casuals that can't handle the competition is missing the point, IMO. This is not some sort of elite high-stakes mental clash that breaks people's nerves, it's a videogame.
Learning multitasking requires two things that newcomers to the game quite often haven't mastered: Being able to think in terms of the game itself, instead of 'talking to yourself' (because that's too slow), and being very, very comfortable with the interface and hotkeys. Newcomers will be multitasking nearly as much as seasoned players, however, they will be multitasking their attention between strategy/tactics and how the hell to build units and use the interface and what the possible counters could be, while the seasoned players will be able to devote all their attention to strategy/tactics. This leaves the newcomers with less mental capacity to devote to the game itself.
Also, once recommendation that you really should follow is to get a steady practice partner.
I am of the firm belief that it's a LOT harder to learn mechanics/macro AND strategy at the same time, ideally you would want to 'fixate' one while practicing the other. This makes ladder games a tough way to learn. You could be 8pooled one game, void ray rushed the next, requiring quick reactions and adjustment that take your attention away from what you're trying to practice.
If you just agree with your practice partner that he is only going to 2gate you, you know what's coming and more or less what to do, so you can actually devote your attention to improving your play, whether that be mechanics, macro, keeping money low, constant pylons, etc.
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I kind of understand where you're coming from.
Personally I can throw 5-6 practice games back to back without breaks, then when it comes to ladder I get this "oh shit" moment. Because ladder is "serious business" to me I'm at this "I don't want to lose" state and as many wins as I can get, 1 loss will throw my day away and I need to get out of this habit soon.
The other things that I think makes me stop at 6-7 games a day is the map pool and variety of options that the game current has to offer. One of those being (I don't have my box copy yet ^^) another thing is my metal state right now is "don't burn out before release", I've been saying this to myself everyday since the phase 1 and I think my mind is programmed to that right now. Like you said, I can watch hours and hours and hours of tournaments, live streams, my replays after I'm done playing but once I hit that crucial number of games I sort of just stop playing.
Personally I think once launch comes, it'll all change. For me at least. It seems like this for all games that I buy. I can play games for 5-6 hours straight without breaks, but when it comes to beta's or free games and what not. I don't put as many hours into them because it doesn't "mean" anything yet. It's just a taste of what we'll get at release.
What I'm really excited about is once everyone gets starcraft 2 and all these communities collide I got a feeling we'll see a TON and I mean a TON of new strategy/techniques showing at release. That's what I'm looking forward to right now, and new maps. I think I've burnt out on all maps except metalopolis lol I'm just tired of seeing Lost Temple, Blistering Sands, Steppes and according to DustinB there are 10 maps at launch (We have 7, so 3 new 1v1 maps and a possibility that they remove some of the phase 1 maps out).
There could be a number of other reasons why I just can't put in X amount of games. I think my ladder amount is at almost 30 games, whilst my custom is hitting 45ish. Total games played is at least 60-70 at this point. Which isn't bad for a little under 2 weeks of beta, but isn't nothing compared to what some people put into the phase 2.
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In my case, its the opposite, after playing BW for so many years, where I really fighted with myself to be faster and do the things on the right timing. In SC2 its like to be on vacation, I play so relaxed and calm, everything is automatic and I don't get tired at all. Doesn't that happens to u guys who have played years of BW?
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I completely agree. I can play so many other games for 12 hours straight no problem, but I play 3-4 ladder games and I just can't play anymore. Maybe it does get better after all the little things become second nature, but the game just requires you to THINK so much that my brain actually feels sore.
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Craptons of practice is the best way to increase your APM and stamina in-game. I'm probably at about 500 games total of SC2 now and I have taken down the sticky notes that used to adorn my monitor - I don't need them any more.
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To the OP:
The reason it's draining you is time investment. With Counter Strike and others FPS individual rounds are only a few minutes long usually. While StarCraft does use more mental processing than your average FPS it's the length of the average game the reason your palms are sweating and your heart rate is likely racing toward the end of a long but close match of SC2. You have so much time and effort invested in a match, the idea that all of that work may have been for nothing increases the stakes.
I have no real solution or answer, it just comes with the territory of the type of game this is.
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I don't really get dazed by any RTS. Well sometimes I get a bit bored though, which isn't too good either as far as my performance is concerned...
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tl;dr
Complaining about mental exhaustion after playing SC would be like an arm wrestler complaining that his arm is sore after a match. Starcraft is arm wrestling but with your brain.
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Sometimes i mass games like crazy dont sleep at all and sometimes i just dont play for a few days
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i don't seem to have that problem at all, but i have played broodwar a ton so im used to it.. but i have also played a lot of games that require no apm at all like wow.. but when i first got into the beta i played for 30 hours before i went to bed .. but just keep playing even if you get tired and when you have played 50+ or 100+ games its not a problem anymore...
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Now imagine playing an even harder game than starcraft 2 for years. Yeah...
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I played one TvT that took 2hrs the other day, i lost it and it was the first time i really felt fatigued physically and mentally, couldnt play another game that day.
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I'm not sure this feeling ever goes away. I've been playing for months and still get the feeling. I always got the feeling in SC:BW as well which is sort of what drove me away from playing it very much. It makes losses that much more painful. It almost gets to the point of being "scared" of losing.
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On July 17 2010 23:59 jimminy_kriket wrote:
Now imagine playing an even harder game than starcraft 2 for years. Yeah...
You probably didn't start out at the level that SC2 is already at, though.
Looking back to some of the common strategies in SC pre-BW, any SC2 silver league player would beat those with his hands tied.
Competition is pretty fierce already for so early in the game's life.
One thing that SC2's lower entry barrier has caused is that horrible players can succesfully pull off certain cheeses, whereas in SC:BW, the field would often be leveled a bit by their inability to macro/micro. In practice, this means that you'll be screwed over by a lack of scouting on lower levels a lot more in SC2 than in SC. At least, I think. This puts pressure on inexperienced players to anticipate a hundred different things that could be coming their way. In time you learn to expect what can and can't happen, given what you've scouted and what he's revealed.
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After BW, SC2 seems like a joke (concerning the whole "mentally taxing" thing). Your units aren't constantly getting stuck and dying for no reason, and you dont have to look back at your base... ever... so much less frustating, so much easier.
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I feel the same way as the OP about mental fatigue after only a couple games and I think part of my problem is that I know too much about the game as weird as that sounds.
I watch Day[9] and professional replays often and have a wealth of knowledge about what I should be doing, but then don't have the mechanics and experience to make it happen myself. So, instead of learning the game gradually over time, I am forcing my brain to play like a pro when I really don't have the RTS experience to make it happen from a multitasking/mechanics perspective.
Maybe a lot of newbies like me are putting too much pressure on ourselves to immediately mimic the pros? Have to allow myself to be bad at the game for a while.
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I can deffinetly connect with the OP, but i still manage to mass game. After every single game i feel "more tired" then i did before i started playing, but this is why, at least i think this is the reason, my brain does not switch to like a relax mode.
After a game finishes, i still seem to be strangely focused and stressed. Im aware that the match is over, but my mind is racing like 20 million miles a second. I think of every single battle\confrontation and how i sucked at it(if i lost the match) or i think of how i got lucky or actually did something good and try to recognize why what i did worked and stuff(if i won).
Its weird but i also noticed that after a loss, im very inclined to just play another game right away(i do not suggest it). However, after a win im just fist pumping and feeling good about my self and watch the replay and the awesomeness that is me....haha....
All of this makes me wonder, is it maybe because your mind has to come to a halt right after a game ends??? Like for athletes(track mostly) if you run 1 mile and you are done, its very unhealthy to just sit down and do nothing right away, it is advised to walk it off, and let your body slow down gradually. In SC2, SC: BW, and most competitive intellectual games that options is not there it seems. You are extremely focused, and then not at all and the difference in time is a loading screen, i wonder if there is any sufficient research to back this up, except for my own thoughts that is.
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I can't play too much either, but what helps me is water. I drink a lot water between every match just to cool down, get a clear head and do something different. I end up drinking 3-4 litres every gaming session and it's a little bit expensive, because I have to buy new water every other day, but this way I can play much longer than normal.
SC2 is still very exhausting even with all those simplified controls. I can't see myself playing 1on1 ladder after a day of work when I need to relax. Blizzards way to deal with this is to provide a ton of other options like UMS, singleplayer and replays.
Other companys, especially Relic Games have gone great lenghs to make RTS-gameplay itself a more relaxing experience while still being somewhat exciting. I could play Dawn of War all day, even after 8 hours of work, but I don't think that's the future of RTSs. Relaxing and demanding games can coexist very well.
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Some of the streamers here are beasts. They go right into another game the second the screen pops up when their done the last. I find that I need breaks often and that I can generally only play 2-3 games before stopping and either reviewing the replays, lurking TL, reading strats or watching some streams for some tips. Maybe it's the stress levels, but even when I'm on a hot seat and win a few in a row... I almost don't want to play, hah. Probably because I don't want to ruin what I've gained because the match making system is going to make me play tougher opponents (as it should).
Either way, since the beginning of the beta I find that I'm getting less ragey and more reflective and trying to learn from my mistakes as best as I can. This means more browsing, reading and watching than I was doing before and I find it helps calm and give me something to usually work on and move forward.
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I used to play Warcraft III during my childhood and when after doing the campaign, custom games, I eventually transitioned to 1v1 ladder I didn't notice this effect at all. I sometimes had trouble motivating myself to play after a loss, but I don't know of any mentally draining effect.
My theory for you is the reason you feel mentally taxed is precisely because you participate in this forum, read articles, think about your playstyle, follow Day[9], tournaments and such. This creates a contrast between your knowledge of the game and your actual playing skills, so that every time you do play you are unable to fully express yourself: you want to do all sorts of things and have all sorts of ideas, but you just don't have the training or talent to.
The reason I think this is because I've noticed that with Starcraft II I have some similar problems I didn't have with Warcraft III. If I play to get my mechanichs up for a while it tends to go away, but after every break from the game - or even during the first game of the day - I often feel tired when playing.
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Everyone has gone through this one time or another whether it be in sc1 or sc2. The only cure is to mass game hard core. Really push your limits and focus alot . After a few weeks you will find multitasking and spamming keys no longer tire you. In fact it's fun to do those things.
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On July 18 2010 02:10 Mothxal wrote:[spoiler]
I used to play Warcraft III during my childhood and when after doing the campaign, custom games, I eventually transitioned to 1v1 ladder I didn't notice this effect at all. I sometimes had trouble motivating myself to play after a loss, but I don't know of any mentally draining effect.
My theory for you is the reason you feel mentally taxed is precisely because you participate in this forum, read articles, think about your playstyle, follow Day[9], tournaments and such. This creates a contrast between your knowledge of the game and your actual playing skills, so that every time you do play you are unable to fully express yourself: you want to do all sorts of things and have all sorts of ideas, but you just don't have the training or talent to.
The reason I think this is because I've noticed that with Starcraft II I have some similar problems I didn't have with Warcraft III. If I play to get my mechanichs up for a while it tends to go away, but after every break from the game - or even during the first game of the day - I often feel tired when playing.[spoiler]
I played 1v1 Warcraft III for a long time without actually being good at it and I still felt this fatigue after a 2-3 hour session. It's the same with Starcraft II now, just worse.
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i cant play more than 3-4 games in a row without taking a break of at least 30 mins, but anyways i dont think thats something bad... and the same happened to me when i played wc3.
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Don't put so much pressure on yourself. It all depends what you want from the game. For example, when you played CS, did you play because you liked the game? Did you like the genre? Did you play purely to pass the time and did it matter whether you finished top 3?
Maybe in SC2, since there is so much information available at the moment (videos, forums, streams, live tournaments) it's stressing you out trying to play at your absolute best 100% of the time. Perhaps you just need to relax a bit more, don't treat each game as an examination of your personal ability, just chill and enjoy it.
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same here. SC2 is the most taxing game I've ever played. I can not play more than 3-4 games in a row without taking a long break. I used to game Company of Heroes for like 8 hours a day before Relic fucked that game completely. I can still play CS for hours on end with only a 15 minute break.
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I feel the same way. Many people in this thread mentioned TF2. I can play TF2 for hours most of the time but I got a problem playing more than 2-3 ladder games in a row(but as someone mentioned earlier, playing with a friend is easier)
Reading your post was like reading my mind. I got a huge interest for SC2 but I can't play for long.
On the other hand, I think I'm improving and my multitasking is getting better. I just need solid mechanics to actually start winning some games(I do win, but I don't count winning against protoss people who go 8,9,10,11,12 pylon, 13 gateway into mass zealot)
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I've been playing SC too long now to remember how it was when I started out, but I've been trying to learn piano recently and noticed something. Some people have mentioned that it's important to not worry about losing, but I'll share my experience with how to not worry about it.
Warning: Noob musician talk below. Skip to the third last paragraph if you want.
In the beginning, about two months ago, I tried to simply sit down and grind through piece after piece until I got it right. This gave quick results, but the muscle memory I gained from one was mostly useless when I moved on to the next piece, and I wasn't learning to sight read very well. Whenever I tried to learn to sight read, I'd get "worn out" within about twenty minutes because it was overwhelming trying to keep track of two hands doing two rhythms, two notes or chords, focus on what key I'm playing in for sharps and flats, and so on. I was making progress, but it was slow and felt like it was going to take my whole life just to be decent.
So, starting three days ago, I decided to focus on one isolated skill at a time that is involved in sight reading. I spent four hours, with a few breaks, grinding through flash cards to memorize pitches on the staff (just two ledger lines in each direction for both staffs, but still). Then, I memorized the pitches of the piano keys in about twenty minutes (yes, I was that kind of muscle memory grinder that didn't even know the pitches of the white keys). The next day I reviewed all that and then spent about three hours associating ranges of C to B on the staff with ranges of C to B on the keyboard. I then spent a good number of hours grinding through pieces with one hand at a time, ignoring rhythm and just practicing hitting the right keys as fast as possible. Yesterday, I isolated hands together rhythm as a skill and just tapped out, using one finger from each hand and a metronome, the rhythm from a bunch of pieces. That took most of the day, I was even practicing it at work (like quarter notes in one hand and triplets in the other). Today I've been combining all those things and it's 100x easier than before to do it all at once. I honestly can't believe it's only been a few days and I've progressed this much.
My point is not on isolating and focusing on skills, as that has been said by others in this thread and even day[9] and I think Chill in his how to improve thread. The thing I noticed is how easily I was able to spend many hours practicing when it was just one thing at a time. The progress was blatant even over short intervals like ten minutes, and it was addictive because I knew that "just ten more minutes!" would actually be really helpful. I even felt sad at one point thinking about how I'm making so much progress in one hour and I've wasted at least a hundred already.
In Starcraft, lets say you focus on not getting supply blocked. Then you lose a long game, but you didn't get supply blocked. It feels good because you achieved your goal, and the lose didn't matter, since you can feel the progress. It's so easy to mass games when you feel like you've made a lot of progress after every game, win or lose.
Even Flash and Jaedong lose, so winning 100% of the time is an incredibly stupid goal. Have small, focused, goals. You'll feel the progress and regardless of winning or losing you'll want to keep playing because you know it'll help. Massing games and just trying to win will help eventually, but it's harder mentally since you're making very small progress in many skills, and it's hard to feel it.
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Having played sc1 and now sc2 I know what your talking about. I would need to smoke a cig after a good 45 minute game of sc1 where it was really close and neck and neck until the end. Im talking games where you both have literally been fighting and countering eachother but unable to break the ramp and actually get the big W and you basically have 1 mining base left on the entire map and your both fighting resource starved and every unit counts all the while staying in the 200 apm range. Yeah.. Carpal tunnel will be paying me a visit soon. The only thing you can do really is take breaks until the game is a natural extension of your thought process. Which took me about 6 months of avid gaming in sc1. I suggest trying to shortening your breaks more and more until you don't need them. Anywho just a thought. viel gluck!
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If you played WC3, SC2 is a walk.
It gets pretty tiring mentally because... it's a mind games game.
You're always on the lookout for some dirty trick to be pulled on you and since it's a "1 chance game" it gets pretty unnerving that's all. Not like in TF2 where dying is relatively not important. Ok that player may have killed you 2 times but you'll respawn immediately and own his ass for the rest of the game.
In SC2 (or most RTS really), you get one chance at taking your opponent. If you blow it, you're done.
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I think people get worn out because the amount of mental focus required for each game is pretty much your maximum. Sure there are a few gimmicks and cheeses but at the end of the day, the game is extremely balanced. If the matchmaking system is doing its job and putting you up against players of equal skill, then for you to beat your opponent, you have to stretch your mental stamina further then your max.
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Just got home from the bar, and I have to say I'm overwhelmed by the number of responses to this thread! Thanks to everyone for their attempts to help a guy out. I find the guy who gave me the TLDR kind of ironic. 6 paragraphs of text too mentally taxing??
I think that there is a wealth of solid advice here ranging from skillset isolation to piano analogies. Good stuff guys. To the BW crew, I think you should re read a point brought up earlier regarding my CS experience. When you first got into BW, you most likely weren't playing to get a D+ rank on iccup, you were more than likely playing with buddies on UMS or BGH or single player and just goofing around. After you've become experienced, you dedicate yourselves to get better, but so many aspects of the skillsets needed have been developed and conditioned without your knowledge.
SC2 beta, it's 90% 1v1 with a competitive mindset. Sure we've got YABOT and greentea, but we've also got a plethora of "pros" telling us that you need to do XXX to improve. Playing BW in 2002 there were no streamers saying "his +1 attack is way too late" or "queuing units is one of the worst thing in the world you can do". We (dedicated newbies) are trying to learn the mechanics flawlessly, and not develop habits. I want to learn how to do things as efficiently as possible. It's going to take a ton of work, and a ton of dedication. Improving on one thing at a time surely seems to be the way to go as opposed to trying to do everything at once.
I know that I'm not going to spend any time playing UMS or BGH because I know that aside from being fun, it's sub standard. I'll take an hour of tiring practice over 4 hours of casual fun any day, because I think I will improve faster. Many people chose the latter without really making a conscious decision. It just happened. And once again, I commend all of you for being able to do it.
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that happened to me before, but about a week ago I started getting used to it and now i can play like 5 games in a row
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man, i can play SC2 for hours, but TF2 has a map change i think i need a break -_-''
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On July 17 2010 14:32 mcneebs wrote:
I've been learning starcraft for the last few months, and I feel I have been going about it the right way, in spite of having no friends (IRL or otherwise) that play with me. I study the liquipedia, watch the streams, and every night after work I throw on the day9 daily. I do a lot of lurking on the forums and occasionally throw in my two cents. I never cry foul on balance issues, and try to develop solid techniques. When it comes to playing the game, however, I can't play for more than an hour.
I can play CS, TF2, basically any FPS for hours. I've been playing them so long that it's just easy, and aim and decision making has come naturally to me. But even when I first got into playing FPS games, they never fatigued me so much as starcraft has. There have been times in large tournaments that I've felt mentally wiped after an intense match in CS 1.6, but I've never had a map change in a public server and said "wow, I need a break".
After I finish playing a game of starcraft, I need to take a break. Not just to watch the replay and reflect on all my mistakes (and trust me there are a ton), but because the game just wears me out so fast.
make SCVs, hows the food, rax almost finished?, remember to scan, rally points ok?, build an ebay, get that upgrade? shit i forgot that depo, okay now i'm supply blocked, throw down an expansion, damn mutas are here, pull scvs and on and on and on.
I'm sure there comes a point where you just do these things without having to consciously think about them, but for me it's such an incredibly difficult process to keep up with. I commend you 200APM players who can just sit there and mass games, but I just feel that I can't ever put in 4-5 hours of starcraft. I love the game. I could watch gretorp's stream for hours. It's awesome. It's just so difficult to climb up this steep learning curve.
Win or lose, gold or diamond, those dedicated to getting better through massing games have my respect. How did you get over this initial hump of being able to execute actions without consciously making every decisioin?
Having a game plan before the game finishes loading is key. This match, if they are Z T or P what are you going to do. Have trained that game plan vs all sorts of things and knowing already how to do things can get rid of a lot of this mental stress. But that being said I still get worn out. My body gets hot, I sweat more, etc... It's how RTS has always been for me. It depends on if you psychologically deal with mental stress well or not. The game has been training me in a way for this. I played Red Alert 2 at a very high level as well, and I always got tired after each match and they were usually only 5-20 minutes long. After a 1 hour match of this I have to step outside and drink some water, talk with my roommates, wind down, pet my lizard, I mean everything. I can't even imaging going back to the game. Don't worry you aren't alone on this one.
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i don't smoke when i am at home, but when i play broodwar i just have to smoke after every 2-3 games..to get a break
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On July 18 2010 04:28 Ricjames wrote:
i don't smoke when i am at home, but when i play broodwar i just have to smoke after every 2-3 games..to get a break
Nevermind that I smoke WHILE playing :D
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I kind of feel the same. I do have to think about all these things and more. I am alway telling myself i need to scout, and that is my latest goal. Like day 9 said on one of his daily try to pic one thing to work on mainly and try to forget about how the game went. Of course if you can keep making drones and use money also is great but try to focus on weakness first. IMO scouting should be the first thing you practice. Anyways my problem is dealing with loses lol. I make myself watch every replay i lost to see what i could or could not have done. When i should have retreated, what units i should make if i see colossus. But after a lose i feel down and do not want to play to lose again. Then when i win i do not want to play to lose the next game lol. So this is my problem. I can play non stop with those that i meet through 1v1 i guess because it is because the win and loss in custom game does not affect my rank. My goal is to move to gold and being stuck at silver rank 20-10 for week make me lose passion to play. I think i need to deal with losing.
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On July 17 2010 14:59 sev1 wrote:
I think it's the 1v1 aspect, the razor-sharp competitive nature of the game. 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, even FFA are all very relaxed and fun. Why? Well, you're not judged in any way, if you lose it's not necessarily your fault, you have teammates to fall back on if you mess up, etc. But in 1v1, if you screw up, it's because *you screwed up*. In a finely balanced game like Starcraft, losing means that the other guy is better than you in some way. He outsmarted you, or had better reflexes, or had a more solid plan going into the game.
The game is easy to understand when you're on the outside looking in. Watching dailies and streams makes it seem so easy and intuitive. But when you're actually in the game, head to head with an equally skilled opponent that could run you over if you so much as hit the wrong hotkey, the pressure can be too much to handle.
2v2 is just as if not more taxing if you take it seriously.
Ever played 1v1 FPS or fighting games? They arent the same. It's because in those games you can choose to burst your concentration at different points in the game, where you choose to make monentum / where the gameplay is critical. And there are reset points in between matches and respawns. I can also choose to sit back and not engage in fighting games / fps.
Due to RTS (flawed? yet interesting) design you cant do that. That would be like choosing to stop running in a marathon. You stop doing something in rts = You lose.
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The mental fatigue is part of the attraction to me, having to constantly operate on a high level of thinking is incredibly stimulating. I think you'll find that even the super-high APM elite players have to put just as much mental effort (or more) into the game. Although macro-ing up probes and basic units might be rote to them, they must dedicate their brainpower to thinking one step ahead, or to finer micro, etc.
Just like a beginner chess player who struggles to think 1-2 moves ahead, once that thinking becomes rote you move up and up until eventually you see the Grand Masters thinking 6-10 moves ahead and thinking in terms of broad positioning strategies rather than just trading pieces.
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Re-roll with more constitution next time.
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Same, I play a 20 min game, take a 40 min breake and thats how my sunday goes.
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if i win i have to take a small break
but if i loose i can go back to back to back
i guess if you are playing right its harder to play that way
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I also want to add that finding a friend to play with is very rewarding. I have a friend I play with often and I have no fatigue whatsoever when playing vs him, because I'm not focused on doing a million things and improving, but on just playing a game and having fun.
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On July 18 2010 03:57 mufin wrote:
I think people get worn out because the amount of mental focus required for each game is pretty much your maximum. Sure there are a few gimmicks and cheeses but at the end of the day, the game is extremely balanced. If the matchmaking system is doing its job and putting you up against players of equal skill, then for you to beat your opponent, you have to stretch your mental stamina further then your max.
This its very taxing,its like taking a test at your university,youre very tense and worried about losing atleast in the beginning.....
To beat that i just use my passion about everything starcraft,just hearing "We shall stand against the darkness" eases the tension since i recall:
1)This is just a game...
2)I love this game,its just good fun..
3)Theres nothing on the line,winning or loosing doesnt matter....fun does...otherwise its a waste of time...
So as long as your passionate about the game itself,and not winning at the game...youll stop worrying so much.Otherwise if you feel you got to mass games to win and you dont feel like massing for its own sake,then all you can do is lose...Just play the game when you feel like it and dont take it to seriously,otherwise it becomes a chore..
Anyway unless u plan on going pro,u dont need to mass hundreds of games.The good thing about sc2 is there will always be opponents at youre own level,so youll always feel challenged and winning will always feel good...
Also playing with friends is 1000 times more satisfying and less stressful.
If youre really competitive and hate losing then you have a problem,since half of youre games will inevitably be losses
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Phase 1, i went allout 5-6 hours a day gaming, didnt feel it as much then as i do now. i can barely go one or two games before i start to think that i need a break. obviously this happend to me in Early BW times aswell, and it took a couple of weeks before i got into it again. And tbh its not really the best thing to do during a Beta seeing as u cant do it constitantly, ul have 1 week of pure gameing then suddently 1 month of just sleep or whatever. once retail comes out ul start to play more and more and more and it wont affect u the same way as it does now. u cant just say to urself "IMMA GO ALLOUT GAMING TODAY" its not possible, u have to gradually do it, if not ul get worn out pretty quickly.
Think of it as any other sport, u dont just run 10miles becouse u decide "imma get good at running" u get there eventually without becomming totally worn out.
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Just keep plugging away. If you need a break go ahead and take one. No sense in wearing yourself out to the point where you don't want to play anymore.
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I usually play 5-6 games in a row, especially if I lost a few games. But I think it is better to just step away for a while and clear your mind every hour or so and relax a bit instead of going 3-4 hours in a row without a break.
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If you are new to RTS, you have to know that once sc2 is released, there will be a bunch of people at your lvl.
Keep in mind it was the beta and that most people played rts a lot.
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This is just a general thought not necessarily directed at the OP, but personally I think a lot of people are putting too much pressure on themselves to perform at a high level. There seems to be unrealistic expectations set on everyone because of SC2 being the next big thing in eSports and how BW has such a celebrated history. There have already been countless tournaments and of course top players streaming on a daily basis along with Day9 and his dailies. The average player absorbs all of this and says "hey, I can and should be able to do that" but end up not being able to replicate that kind of success and it can stress them out.
I say just play and let things happen naturally, win or lose. If you can't spam games because it's mentally taxing, then don't. Eventually the game will be hardwired into you to the point that a lot of actions won't need thought anymore. But the important thing is to not have unrealistic expectations (you probably won't ever be a progamer, sorry ) and treat SC2 as a game and not a job.
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Try listening to classical music while you play, it actually helps a lot. It's the only way that I can even get through entire games of PvZ without doing something stupid to try and end it immediately right now; they're just so stressful for me. It used to be that way for me in every match-up, but now my PvT and my PvP (as long as he doesn't make anything from a Stargate; if he does then it's iPod time) are fairly comfortable and I feel okay massing them. I'll share with you what I think helped me unwind during them:
I think that going into every game with a really good plan helps a lot, because you don't need to spend as much mental energy on the basics of what you'll do, just adapting and making sure you don't slip up in your macro. I can run through my PvP and PvT strategies pretty effortlessly now until something forces me to deviate, and I think the fact that I can't with my PvZ I think is a gigantic part of why it is so uncomfortable.
Also, raising your APM even just a little can help a lot, I got mine about 30 higher and that made my PvP sane pretty much on its own; I could macro without having to constantly worry about being ready to forcefield at my choke, because I was able to jump over there and do it quickly enough without babysitting it. Maybe drop the replay watching just for about a week- it took me about 20 hours of just playing and focusing on my hands to get my APM 30 higher (I, being ever obsessive, did it all in one day, but I wouldn't advise that. It actually took me a fair bit of Advil to do it =P).
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I dont get bothered at all by playing.. its relaxing especially if I decide to listen to music.. When I used to play heroes of newerth though.. thats a different story. 2 games of HoN and I get such a huge headache that I cant play for hours.. I think its because I had retarded team mates doing such bad things which is why I play SC2 now.. 1vs1 no team mates.
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On July 17 2010 14:48 ImSkeptical wrote:
From day9 and gretorp, having small goals not directly about winning, such as these few games im not going to get supply capped, or have my creep expanded to my 3rd before i expand there. Also dedicating a certain specific amount of time to starcraft, and leaving it unambiguous, such as from 3-6 im going to play starcraft solidly, save all the replays and watch them all at a 8-9.
Ugh, that sounds almost like...work.
To each his own, I guess.
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I totally understand and feel the original post's complaint. Thinking about it, however, makes me wonder if I should.
Coming at the game knowing too much has the danger of making your standards too high. You can't play StarCraft thinking you need to force everything you know into something you actually do. I'd imagine the best players primarily play on instinct and reflex. Attempting to win games through an obsessive awareness of what you "need" would, therefore, get in the way of that. Don't get me wrong, though, yes, being aware of what you need is good, but not at the expense of a mind that remains comfortable and flexible.
I'd suggest that you have your goals, but don't beat up on yourself when you fail. The more you try to win by obsessively controlling what you're thinking about, the more you're going in the wrong direction (and you'll feel fatigued). At some point you need to learn the game unconsciously. I know that the design of battle.net and the stupid opinions of many in the community don't particularly help us to feel comfortable enough to do that, but if your confidence is primarily coming from how well you meet an external list of "dos" and "don'ts" then the bulk of your confidence is coming from the wrong place.
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I usually take a break after two or three games, because I agree it can be pretty taxing and sometimes stressful. Unlike the OP though, I can't play FPS games for long periods of time either. The only game I can enjoy for large chunks of time at once is WoW if I'm questing or doing 5 man dungeons, because it's more relaxed. SC2 and TF2 are two games that I enjoy a lot, but I just can't play them for long.
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If you play a lot most of it switches to routine, so you don't have to concentrate on it.
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I'm right with you OP. Today I planned on playing for a few hours, but my first game was a 1 hour 20 minute grind against a Terran on Desert Oasis. I ended up having to mine out the remenents of every base on the map to build up an army of Void Rays big enough to break his turret line on one of the islands.
After that, I had to go outside to the pool and relax for a few hours. That game took every ounce of my focus.
I can play FPS game all night no problem, but Starcraft is just so nerve racking in comparison because of everything that you have to worry about all at once all game long. If the games last like 15-30 minutes, I can play all night. But grinds against a turtling Terran generally exhaust me to the point where I just don't have the energy to play anymore.
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i felt sorta the same, and then i switched to 6-pooling, 40 games, the longest one being 4:15 (6 loses t-5 p-1 z-0) If any1 needs tips pm me ( don't do 6pools on maps that will be 100% scouted too soon
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wow you sound exactly like me. Even the cs 1.6 parts xD
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To be honest, if you'd been playing harder games than tf2 and cs, you probably wouldn't have found it all so overwhelming.
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I don't know if you can use this, but what worked for me was, that I made a plan of what I was going to train, just focusing on a single race and a single build order and just try and make it work..
I think watching streams and dailies are good for alot of things, but ultimately, I think it removes peoples focus on their own play meaning alot of people want to try out a lot of different strategies in a short period of time, instead of making something work for them selves.. Once I came to realize, that I couldn't just do a TLO and make stuff up as I go and focused on practicing my own builds, it became alot easier to 'grind' games..
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Be sure you sleep enough and drink plenty of water. Both of those have a big impact on my 1v1 capability. Sometimes ill even go to sleep earlier and ladder in the morning before the work because it helps my game so much.
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I feel your pain. Something for me that worked though, was listening to music. I can now play maybe 7 or 8 games in a row compared to the 2 or 3 I was playing earlier. Give it a shot!
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United States17042 Posts
I feel like in order to get a handle on the game, you really need to be able to get many of those tasks automatic - In other words, it's just practice. Macro cycles turn into something that you can just remember to do, and your thoughts turn from the mechanics of moving your army, building it, and positioning it properly towards making the correct decisions in the game about timings and mindgames.
That being said, I still get tired after about 2-3 hours of play, and just need a rest as I can usually feel my play deteriorating >.>
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On July 18 2010 10:12 USn wrote:
To be honest, if you'd been playing harder games than tf2 and cs, you probably wouldn't have found it all so overwhelming.
Alright, not only is this not helping anyone but it's just ignorant nonsense. If you think CS isn't hard to master, if you think TF2 doesn't have tons of nuance, why are you even posting on this forum? I think you need at least a basic understanding of online video games to consider posting in a thread where a guy is asking for advice about mental strain over one.
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On July 18 2010 11:20 Sushbag wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 10:12 USn wrote:
To be honest, if you'd been playing harder games than tf2 and cs, you probably wouldn't have found it all so overwhelming. Alright, not only is this not helping anyone but it's just ignorant nonsense. If you think CS isn't hard to master, if you think TF2 doesn't have tons of nuance, why are you even posting on this forum? I think you need at least a basic understanding of online video games to consider posting in a thread where a guy is asking for advice about mental strain over one.
Do you play tf2 competitively? What team are you on?
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I personally just get tired after like 3-6 games depending on the length
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Heh.
It's cause you're not korean. XD
GENETICS BIATCH.
*psst. not really, but just flaunting my korean status.*
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On July 18 2010 11:59 kineSiS- wrote:
Heh.
It's cause you're not korean. XD
GENETICS BIATCH.
*psst. not really, but just flaunting my korean status.*
Sigh... Gotta make the ones not fortunate enough to be korean feel bad...
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I can totally relate to this! Once i play a long game or so i take a good 20 minute break to get a drink or some food and that get ready to play again. Your brain is used so much in this game and really it needs a break.
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credentials : I'm a diamond terran player with an average of 140-170 apm for most games. (maybe only 80% effective atm though)
When i did play bw (back during the first few seasons of pgtour) my highest rank was B.
I've seen a lot of posts in this thread about how if you played a lot of bw or War3 then sc2 isn't nearly as mentally taxing.
That triggers something in my head because while I thought the same at first, I find it much different now. I do think that the initial learning curve is much easier, but even when I watch top diamond replays I look at how unpolished myself and even top players are. It reminds me of watching bw replays from 2002 in 2005. I see tons of thing's that they could be doing to be better, and while the macro mechanics are generally easier, I feel that eventually it will take at least 200EAPM on average to be a top player.
Does anyone else feel this way? I think people are really underestimating the skill ceiling for sc2.
summary: Even though it is much easier to become a solid sc2 player, and the learning curve isn't as steep, I think it will still gradually get a lot higher than people think.
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On July 17 2010 14:58 Cytokinesis wrote:
It's because of the one on one environment. A lot of "competitive" gamers aren't used to it. I use quotes because many consider them such, but haven't really done anything on a personal level. It's one thing to take full responsibility for EVERYTHING. Where as you're playing CS and some douche blocks you and you get destroyed, it's easy to look past what you did. It's the intimate one on one environment that gets you, probably.
OP, I agree with you and Cyto nailed the reasoning...at least for me. I can sit and play 3v3's or w/e all day -- just as I could sit and do 2v2 in WC3 all day -- but when I do 1v1's against a challenging opponent, it really taxes me and I sometimes can only play a handful of games before I need a break (I just played two great games actually and had to take a break, lol). I'm actually looking forward to the campaign for exactly that reason...I can do a mission to regroup and then go back to 1v1.
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This was a problem for me in starcraft brood war, in SC2 its non existent. (for me)
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I think you are taking things too serious as a new player. There are a lot of other gamers who are setting such a high standard because they played sc1.
Just play at a pace that you can enjoy. If you get into gold or bronze, so what? You can play against other players your skill level, and eventually you will learn the game.
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I got relaxed after about 200 games. (in bw, no problems in sc2)
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find out how many games in a row you can play with 100% focus and let's say you last 10 games then you should stop and take a break then next time try play 11 with 100% focus etc keep improving gradually
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I think it just depends on whether you can take a loss or not
Other games I almost never lose 1v1 so I had to get used to losing in starcraft lol
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On July 18 2010 13:04 Three wrote:
I think it just depends on whether you can take a loss or not
Other games I almost never lose 1v1 so I had to get used to losing in starcraft lol
I'm the opposite; I almost never stop playing after a loss...if I get a few tough wins in a row though, I need a break.
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When I first got the SC2 beta, I would play like 50 games in a row each day that I logged on. Now I find it hard to do more than 5 or 10. But in my case, I usually have had a long day and want to relax, and playing 1v1 automatch is the opposite of relaxing for me. It puts me in a very focused mood and makes my headaches worse (if I have one at the time).
The game is best played when you are wide awake, fully fed, and in an energetic mood. Like hyperactive mood even. You play better that way, and it is easier to get more games in.
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Whoa this is probably why I lose so much... especially after long win streaks hahaha
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Yeah. It's the only game that I can't play when I'm tired cause I'll just get annihilated if I'm not giving it my full concentration.
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it's all mental. change your outlook on playing SC2 and it won't be as taxing on you, it only drains you if YOU let it...
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For me cs 1.6 gets old fast, especially if you're pubbing it can be quite boring. SC is a fun game if you win. If you're always on the losing end it can be quite demoralizing.
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I come from a very similar back round as the poster. I've played competitive cs and I have trouble playing numerous games of SC2 without getting tired.
I think the only thing I can relate to melee play in general in starcraft(s) is being a strat caller when I played 1.6. I remember when I used to call during matches albeit rarely it was extremely mentally taxing. I had to stop after I was done, it was just too much. CS is in a way very like BW in many ways.
The game has evolved over time and you need to know all the of tricks and strategies that have been complied over many years. So when you're calling, in a way you're trying to micromanage your 4 other players. Maybe not always telling them exactly what to do but putting them in a situation that you think might have an advantage. It gets really complex when you're trying to implement money management, strategies you have previously practiced, communication and at the same time put up a good score for your team.
I normally can do almost endless scrims in 1.6 that I'm basically pugging but just one game where I'm trying to put all this coordination together is just so taxing. I find it pretty amazing how pro starcraft players as well as 1.6 players can sustain high competition games back to back without mentally checking out.
I also want to mention that FPS games like quake are probably similarly taxing as they are literally non stop action in a 1v1 settings that requires a good amount of strategy.
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I don't find CS to be that similar to SC at all. I played at a CAL P level when I stopped 3 or 4 years ago (around a B rank for iccup i guess). The thing about FPS games is that there's a moment where you have to act. NOW. it's a matter of milliseconds where you're alive one second, and you either kill or be killed.
In starcraft, mistakes are punished over time and there's always a looming threat. You don't instantly lose if you forget to make an SCV, but you'll instantly die if you fail to check a corner, or fuck up a rocket jump etc. CS is also a much slower game, but Q3 players know what I mean.
To moskau (off topic) if you're managing your other players in game, you haven't spent enough time in empty servers. Especially when running complex strats (fakes, stacking etc.) The team should kind of have a fluid like movement where they don't need a boss talking over vent. Vent should be used for giving unknown information (AWP mid, save round, bomb tunnel). Sound is so important in CS that if you're microing your team via voice, there's a good chance that you could be causing a detriment to them.
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When I said managing players, I more meant mid game calling, when on the fly you will decide how to tackle something. I don't mean telling people what to do every minute of the game, more like a general idea of what we're doing this round. Then changing the strategy on the fly if something goes wrong, or something strange happens.
I understand what you mean but while you need to be fluid as a team you're team need to understand what we're doing. Sometimes strategies don't pan out perfectly, and if everyone just fends for themselves it's almost certain that you lose the round. So managing the team from that aspect is kind of what I meant, just hard to explain to someone who hasn't played cs 1.6, or has only in a pub.
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On July 17 2010 14:42 chonks wrote:
I think it's the high stakes and the longer games/1on1 nature of the game in relation to FPS games.
I think you're right about 1v1, but it's not limited to FPS. Like everyone else here, I play a lot and I played thousands of 2v2 games in wc3, but I've never felt such a strong impulse to not play after a victory in a long game.
It's not a conscious decision for me to "end while you're winning" and my stats aren't important to me. But after a long game that I win I really don't want to play more. It's quite interesting.
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I am in the same position as you for my sc experience. I picked up the beta in march and have been using a friends account (rarely because it is locked) and I don't have people to compete with. But I don't have a problem playing this game all day, I got to play again for the first day since the beta was out and I played a little over 60 games since 12pm pst.... 5 games an hour >.>
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Definitely the whole one on one nature, It's not like a FPS where you can goof around, If you mess up it can cost you the game, the stress makes me very rarely play 1v1s : (
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Notice that bw noob game was way more slow than average starcraft 2 game, in sc2 any noob can easily and fastly go to mass unit so the game is easily more intensive for everybody.
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Okay this sounds messed but I've read quite a bit about brain plasticity and just how you categorize things you learn. I'm fairly confident those hard/long games that you win had you in a state of focus that it is more mentally taxing. Your creating a completely different mapping in your brain for starcraft 2 and putting more effort into learning. Once you've committed something to memory that is totally new your brain requires time to process this, that's why you feel an absolute need to just sit back and let yourself mull over it.
http://www.sharpbrains.com/blog/2008/02/26/brain-plasticity-how-learning-changes-your-brain/
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Its like golf. Really fucking hard, but once you get that one game/hole where everything went perfect... you feel on top of the world and try your hardest to duplicate it as much as possible.
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The only thing that comes close to being as mentally taxing as starcraft 2 is being the last man on search and destroy in modern warfare. I find in the early process of things it is far easier to play casually. You won't be playing as good as if you were nervous and panicking about everything (the panicking is focus and awareness) but you will be able to mass matches far easier, and that while making you lose more will make you get better faster, until you blend back into your earlier state doing everything frantically, except it is far more natural because you eased into it.
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yeah, i find this game to be mentally taxing as well, especially after long matches. Usually after those kinds of matches i begin to feel tired, as if i just had a night of little sleep.
Its also a bit physically taxing to me, as my fingers/wrists start to ache a little after a few games. Its times liek these that i wonder how progamers can play for 10+ hours a day with fast hand movements
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Couldnt agree more, this game has to be the most mentally taxing ever. Its like throughout the game (except for the starting part) you have to be fully concentrated and cant take your eyes off the screen even more 3 seconds. And if people talk to you its kinda hard to reply them lol
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You need to take into the equation that you get older, and older people doesn't have that entusiasm to ride a rollercoaster 20 times in a row. We have more things to care about. Life gets complex...
A very relaxing rule, while playing any game, is to not have a goal to win. Have another goal. Don't get supply blocked, remember to get upgrades in time in this game, etc.
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2629 Posts
I play better right after I eat.
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SC2 tires me out but I can't quit. When I lose I get pissed and need to play until I win. When I win I feel like I'm on a roll and keep playing. Meh. I eventually just get 'bored' more than stressed.
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You get a nice break for a week on monday.
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It's a very mentally exhausting game, I wonder if pros who play 40+ games a day feel the same way I do after a game.
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Dueling in Quake is really the only FPS that is comparable to SC in terms of constant thinking required. CS and TF2 you barely have to think most of the time (not saying these game don't take skill.) But most of it is simply instant communication and reactions.
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I have the same thing, I don't like playing games for too long, only with friends.
I get exhausted and bored. I guess it's just a type of playstyle. I'm that kinda person who does better when he plays less.
And what you've been doing is right, study works everywhere, imho
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everyone when start with RTS mostly get that feeling when try to play it competitively. By time you guys will get used to it to play 2 games, 5 games straight in the row and think less about win/loss but how you should improved yourself/your strat.
also taking a break between games are not a bad idea. you always should check for your mistakes unless you know what they are already.
the only cure to your fear is to play it, face it and get over it  . also try not to care about ladder too much but care about what did you improved through out your games. treat your enemies as practice partners and be friendly, dont rage on being cheesed and try to blame yourself on not scouting that early. Think about how to improve yourself and DONT CARE ABOUT THE WIN/LOSE!!!!!!
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I usually can do a lot of short matches, but after those almost hour long matches I definately need a break.
I probably could just keep going if it's in example somekind bo5 tournament games, but in ladder if you can take a break, why not.
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On July 18 2010 10:12 USn wrote:
To be honest, if you'd been playing harder games than tf2 and cs, you probably wouldn't have found it all so overwhelming.
Been playing Quake2/3, UT99 and Street Fighter games for over 6 years. Have the exact same problems as OP, although slowly getting over them. Your premise is false.
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i've been playing dota(with a team) for about 2 years and i got the same thing. After some time i was so afraid of this feeling i wouldint even start a ladder game just play some custom maps and i was a mid diamond player
its strange that in dota you have to be focused on the game all the time too, but i had no problems with, i think that multitasking is killing me
DONT CARE ABOUT THE WIN/LOSE!!!! i dont care about it its not an issue im not afraid of loosing, tbh i even like to loose if i learn something from it and i need to stop mostly after a win. Its like my brain was telling me "you dont wanna start another game go play some MoH beta its fun and easy"
and seriously i had this all the time but i realized it when i read this post its odd
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Usually, I play a game...win and play another game or I lose...and I take a very long break. I think that losing is very annoying and heartbreaking giving you the feeling that it'll take forever to get better.What I do is I just suck it up and play again, and lose. At least I'm gettin' practice.
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On July 19 2010 05:02 aztrorisk wrote:
Usually, I play a game...win and play another game or I lose...and I take a very long break. I think that losing is very annoying and heartbreaking giving you the feeling that it'll take forever to get better.What I do is I just suck it up and play again, and lose. At least I'm gettin' practice.
couldnt agree more.. everytime i lose, especially to a close game, the feeling really sucks.. gotta suck it up..
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All I have to say is if you think starcraft 2 is mentally taxing you really don't want to play starcraft brood:war..
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EPT
