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On June 04 2010 12:09 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:58 Energizer wrote:On June 04 2010 11:56 Ideas wrote:
ok if theyre going to give reapers a 50/50 upgrade then they need to make concussion shells 100/100. 50/50 upgrades in any case are so dumb (previously overlord speed, warpgates, shells, and now this shit).
man i hate reaper rushes lol They give a useless unit some stock, and you call them "dumb" Have you ever seen reapers even used successfully past the 5 minute mark? This doesnt change anything. the reaper is a horribly designed unit that is probably the most shallow in the game. amazing in the 1st 4 minutes, completely useless afterward except as a super expensive scout. This buff just makes them a bigger pain in the ass for the 1st 4 minutes. they should of addressed the reaper a long time ago with an effort to make them good in the later stages of the game instead of this.
This is a good point but I don't know what could possibly be done to make the unit less "shallow."
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On June 04 2010 12:09 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:58 Energizer wrote:On June 04 2010 11:56 Ideas wrote:
ok if theyre going to give reapers a 50/50 upgrade then they need to make concussion shells 100/100. 50/50 upgrades in any case are so dumb (previously overlord speed, warpgates, shells, and now this shit).
man i hate reaper rushes lol They give a useless unit some stock, and you call them "dumb" Have you ever seen reapers even used successfully past the 5 minute mark? This doesnt change anything. the reaper is a horribly designed unit that is probably the most shallow in the game. amazing in the 1st 4 minutes, completely useless afterward except as a super expensive scout. This buff just makes them a bigger pain in the ass for the 1st 4 minutes. they should of addressed the reaper a long time ago with an effort to make them good in the later stages of the game instead of this.
What I think would be good is some sort of either like anti armor gun or machine gun that they could set up. Be an upgrade, and slow them down tremendously, but maybe fgive armor/health/dps? I'm not sure. Or let them 'morph' into a unit.
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On June 04 2010 12:06 DooMDash wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:04 Baarn wrote:On June 04 2010 12:02 DooMDash wrote:On June 04 2010 12:00 kNyTTyM wrote:On June 04 2010 11:55 DooMDash wrote:On June 04 2010 11:54 De4ngus wrote:On June 04 2010 11:50 ShadezOwnage wrote:On June 04 2010 11:43 D3lta wrote:
Hellion
Weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
Thor
Anti-air weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
What a bunch of bullshit of course you are sad. a terran player who saw a million zerg units blow up in a few shots is sad. oh but you know, i should have been doom dropping and nydusing all over and should have had this huge macro advantage. come on now. everyone knows you can just push across the map pretty much untouched with enough tanks and AA next to them. it was a joke. I am not talking about private league pros, i am talking about the average plat/lowdiamond player, which is a TON of us. Seeing 25 hydras get blown up in about 2 seconds because they strayed into the 1234 range of a tank is not how the game was meant to be played. nor was tanks being so strong that they just moved up slowly with cover and you had no chance of beating them. If you attack a full mech army head on and get raped, thats your fault. You can't ask blizzard to nerf shit just because you're a lower level player and you want to 1a to win. Thats exactly how I feel. So many Zergs even in Diamond just playing retarded. ok seriously guys come on. It's not just random scrub diamond players that thought it was imba http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129070¤tpage=5#98 Yeah sure, I'm just saying most players in Diamond are retarded and thats why this change is so drastic. I don't think Terran needed nerfing, I think Zerg needed the changes if anything ( to make up for it ). Based on what evidence? What are you asking evidence for? I'm agreeing that Zerg needed an answer, and Terran didn't need to get nerfed against Protoss in the process.
I am curious to why you disagree with the change rather than a blanket statement that people in diamond are retarded.
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On June 04 2010 12:11 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:09 Ideas wrote:On June 04 2010 11:58 Energizer wrote:On June 04 2010 11:56 Ideas wrote:
ok if theyre going to give reapers a 50/50 upgrade then they need to make concussion shells 100/100. 50/50 upgrades in any case are so dumb (previously overlord speed, warpgates, shells, and now this shit).
man i hate reaper rushes lol They give a useless unit some stock, and you call them "dumb" Have you ever seen reapers even used successfully past the 5 minute mark? This doesnt change anything. the reaper is a horribly designed unit that is probably the most shallow in the game. amazing in the 1st 4 minutes, completely useless afterward except as a super expensive scout. This buff just makes them a bigger pain in the ass for the 1st 4 minutes. they should of addressed the reaper a long time ago with an effort to make them good in the later stages of the game instead of this. This is a good point but I don't know what could possibly be done to make the unit less "shallow."
How about when you get a engineering bay up you have a +30 hp upgrade that takes quite awhile? Or maybe give them the bomb throwing ablity like in old beta, except you research it at EB and you can just hit and run, maybe use it on units? Anything would have been better really.
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I saw a T player use reapers behind the marines.
As long as they did not die, it seems that they mow the shit out of zerg lings in large chunks.
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Welp, time to take out my rage by reapering some noobs.
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On June 04 2010 12:12 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:06 DooMDash wrote:On June 04 2010 12:04 Baarn wrote:On June 04 2010 12:02 DooMDash wrote:On June 04 2010 12:00 kNyTTyM wrote:On June 04 2010 11:55 DooMDash wrote:On June 04 2010 11:54 De4ngus wrote:On June 04 2010 11:50 ShadezOwnage wrote:On June 04 2010 11:43 D3lta wrote:
Hellion
Weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
Thor
Anti-air weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
What a bunch of bullshit of course you are sad. a terran player who saw a million zerg units blow up in a few shots is sad. oh but you know, i should have been doom dropping and nydusing all over and should have had this huge macro advantage. come on now. everyone knows you can just push across the map pretty much untouched with enough tanks and AA next to them. it was a joke. I am not talking about private league pros, i am talking about the average plat/lowdiamond player, which is a TON of us. Seeing 25 hydras get blown up in about 2 seconds because they strayed into the 1234 range of a tank is not how the game was meant to be played. nor was tanks being so strong that they just moved up slowly with cover and you had no chance of beating them. If you attack a full mech army head on and get raped, thats your fault. You can't ask blizzard to nerf shit just because you're a lower level player and you want to 1a to win. Thats exactly how I feel. So many Zergs even in Diamond just playing retarded. ok seriously guys come on. It's not just random scrub diamond players that thought it was imba http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129070¤tpage=5#98 Yeah sure, I'm just saying most players in Diamond are retarded and thats why this change is so drastic. I don't think Terran needed nerfing, I think Zerg needed the changes if anything ( to make up for it ). Based on what evidence? What are you asking evidence for? I'm agreeing that Zerg needed an answer, and Terran didn't need to get nerfed against Protoss in the process. I am curious to why you disagree with the change rather than a blanket statement that people in diamond are retarded.
Oh well if you want that evidence I can only tell you from my experience playing in Diamond and pre-patch 13 Platinum. I've very rarely lost to Z players, not because mech is OP, because they are engaging mech / never harassing / among other things. Seriously, at Diamond level.
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On June 04 2010 11:55 DooMDash wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:54 De4ngus wrote:On June 04 2010 11:50 ShadezOwnage wrote:On June 04 2010 11:43 D3lta wrote:
Hellion
Weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
Thor
Anti-air weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
What a bunch of bullshit of course you are sad. a terran player who saw a million zerg units blow up in a few shots is sad. oh but you know, i should have been doom dropping and nydusing all over and should have had this huge macro advantage. come on now. everyone knows you can just push across the map pretty much untouched with enough tanks and AA next to them. it was a joke. I am not talking about private league pros, i am talking about the average plat/lowdiamond player, which is a TON of us. Seeing 25 hydras get blown up in about 2 seconds because they strayed into the 1234 range of a tank is not how the game was meant to be played. nor was tanks being so strong that they just moved up slowly with cover and you had no chance of beating them. If you attack a full mech army head on and get raped, thats your fault. You can't ask blizzard to nerf shit just because you're a lower level player and you want to 1a to win. Thats exactly how I feel. So many Zergs even in Diamond just playing retarded.
But it's perfectly fine for a Terran to 1a to win. Just not Zerg.
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... is it just me or does this seem like it's just going to make mech players turtle even harder?
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On June 04 2010 12:11 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
were a lot of people getting air upgrades for broodlords and owning with them or is that just a random nerf?
Yeah i was wondering this too... I didnt see many builds kicking around where zerg got air weapons haha
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On June 04 2010 12:16 Grimjim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:55 DooMDash wrote:On June 04 2010 11:54 De4ngus wrote:On June 04 2010 11:50 ShadezOwnage wrote:On June 04 2010 11:43 D3lta wrote:
Hellion
Weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
Thor
Anti-air weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
What a bunch of bullshit of course you are sad. a terran player who saw a million zerg units blow up in a few shots is sad. oh but you know, i should have been doom dropping and nydusing all over and should have had this huge macro advantage. come on now. everyone knows you can just push across the map pretty much untouched with enough tanks and AA next to them. it was a joke. I am not talking about private league pros, i am talking about the average plat/lowdiamond player, which is a TON of us. Seeing 25 hydras get blown up in about 2 seconds because they strayed into the 1234 range of a tank is not how the game was meant to be played. nor was tanks being so strong that they just moved up slowly with cover and you had no chance of beating them. If you attack a full mech army head on and get raped, thats your fault. You can't ask blizzard to nerf shit just because you're a lower level player and you want to 1a to win. Thats exactly how I feel. So many Zergs even in Diamond just playing retarded. But it's perfectly fine for a Terran to 1a to win. Just not Zerg.
Mech can't 1 a victory they need to 1e, think next time! good grief
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With the time and money it takes to go heavy spire units, I didn't know anyone went beyond 1/0
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On June 04 2010 12:11 kNyTTyM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:09 tfmdjeff wrote:
Siege tank damage is nerfed, but is 10 damage going to matter that much when there are 15 of them firing on your units?
And the things that really upset me are the constant zerg tier3 nerfs. Brood lords are basically the only unit that can break terran mech, and now they're being nerfed. they were already fragile and situational enough. Blizzard is really pressing ultralisks as much as possible. Now it takes 11 shots from a tank to kill ultra instead of 9.
Is that with 0 armor or the +4 tier armor upgrades? I'd like to see those numbers; I would of course simply test it myself, but...yea, bnet is down. So, what numbers did you use?
Personally, I am glad to see terran is finally getting something nerfed...
On June 04 2010 12:18 Sputty wrote:
Mech can't 1 a victory they need to 1e, think next time! good grief
Also, lol'ed.
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On June 04 2010 12:18 Sputty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:16 Grimjim wrote:On June 04 2010 11:55 DooMDash wrote:On June 04 2010 11:54 De4ngus wrote:On June 04 2010 11:50 ShadezOwnage wrote:On June 04 2010 11:43 D3lta wrote:
Hellion
Weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
Thor
Anti-air weapon upgrade bonus decreased from 1(+1 Light) to 1.
What a bunch of bullshit of course you are sad. a terran player who saw a million zerg units blow up in a few shots is sad. oh but you know, i should have been doom dropping and nydusing all over and should have had this huge macro advantage. come on now. everyone knows you can just push across the map pretty much untouched with enough tanks and AA next to them. it was a joke. I am not talking about private league pros, i am talking about the average plat/lowdiamond player, which is a TON of us. Seeing 25 hydras get blown up in about 2 seconds because they strayed into the 1234 range of a tank is not how the game was meant to be played. nor was tanks being so strong that they just moved up slowly with cover and you had no chance of beating them. If you attack a full mech army head on and get raped, thats your fault. You can't ask blizzard to nerf shit just because you're a lower level player and you want to 1a to win. Thats exactly how I feel. So many Zergs even in Diamond just playing retarded. But it's perfectly fine for a Terran to 1a to win. Just not Zerg. Mech can't 1 a victory they need to 1e, think next time! good grief
We need to 1d from time to time as well you know.
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Guess what dude, your 25 hydra's will still evaporate in 2 seconds, cause the nerf doesn't affect tank performance vs hydra at all. They'll still die in 2 shots, so you still won't be able to a-move to victory.
Which leads me to ask the big question. Did this actually address anything zerg is complaining about? Top level zerg players complaints seem to be directed at late game tanks owning everything on the ground, while the rest of the T army is dedicated to countering tank counters (i.e. viking/raven/thor/hellion). The thing is, tanks are still going to own everything on the ground late game. The only thing that will change that is to nerf tanks to a point where certain armies can click into them on the ground. This would effectively destroy the unit as we know it, and drastically change a racial staple that has existed since the dawn of SC. So naturally no one wants this, or at least they think they don't. Eventually zerg will probably find a way to counter mech, that will have nothing to do with this tank nerf (Sen has already been doing some good stuff on this front). This feels like the immortal 10 sec production time token nerf. Didn't really change anything but it bought some time untell players figured out you can just spam marauders into fast immo push.
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OMG why did they nerf tanks? i believe rauders are the one that should be nerfed...
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Blizzard is so dumb. How is the SC2 seige tank more exciting when you make siege mode and unsieged mode increasingly the same?
The dichotomy of siege vs unsieged in SC1, and siege range vs non was what made it so exciting. Blizzard is foolish to do this. They should have fixed the AI so tanks wouldn't smart acquire targets anymore.
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On June 04 2010 12:26 AnxietE wrote:
OMG why did they nerf tanks? i believe rauders are the one that should be nerfed...
rauders are overrated... quit your complaining.
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On June 04 2010 12:30 0neder wrote:
How is the SC2 seige tank exciting
The dichotomy of siege vs unsieged in SC1, and siege range vs non was what made it so exciting. Blizzard is foolish to do this. They should have fixed the AI so tanks wouldn't smart acquire targets anymore.
^ fix't?
And to actually add something to this discussion...I think tanks need not to fire so RIDICULOUSLY fast when in unsieged mode...they are just way too fast. Slowing the RoF down when unsieged would probably lead to a more varietal dichotomy, no?
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Maybe Blizzard nerfed Mech in hopes that Terrans would start using the most uninteresting unit in the game again. Sigh....well the Marauder-light period was great while it lasted.
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EPT
