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On June 02 2010 10:20 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 08:12 FrozenArbiter wrote:On June 02 2010 08:01 Evilruler wrote:On June 02 2010 07:14 s031720 wrote:
I personally dont like the new spells; a spell that buffs or nerfs 1 unit really is meaningless in a game that mainly deals with clashes of greatnumber of units. I hope they remove them or make them AoE. As it is now, these spells fit better in WC3 that is much more micro-oriented.
I agree. These spells just stink WC3. This is SC, for god's sake, who cares about one unit in an army? SC is about great numbers, wtf is up with spells that makes 1 unit easier to kill, 1 unit stronger, this is a war, this isn't a small camp battle, there is no hero here. What really makes me angry is that instead of working with concepts and using these holes in the Z (these skills - corruption, frenzy and, bleh, infested terran), that nobody uses, and even if use, it isn't fun, it doesn't fit in the game, holy god THEY DON'T FIT... Instead of using this oportunity to bring some really cool stuff for Z they just sit around and "meh, let's just put some WC3 stuff and it'll be fine. If anything goes wrong, woa, we can just BALANCE the numbers and it'll be allright!". Not that I entirely disagree with you, but I just want to give a few SC1 examples of single target spells: - Defensive matrix. - Restoration  On the same vein- Optic flare & Lockdown 
I'd personally argue those were MUCH more interesting spells and cant be compared to the SC2 crap.
D-matrix--> keeps one important unit alive longer, ie dropship, good for suicide moves or drawing fire so your army is better
Flare--> shuts down expensive units, makes a detector useless. very situational but extremely interesting when pulled off right.
Lockdown--> same as above, very expensive and hard to get, as well as cast, but can provide huge results if used correctly, allows you to completely nullify one of their biggest threats.
Corruption--> stuff takes more damage. single target. 20%. uh, lol? so i kill it in 15 shots instead of 18, that helps me how? his colossi die 1/5 a second faster than they normally would.... absolutely game changing.
Frenzy--> my unit does more damage. cannot be statused. one unit. this on the race thats meant to mass a shitton of units that overwhelm you. makes perfect sense.
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howcome archon's dont have splash against air units, people don't seem to be complaining about this so must be a good reason?
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On June 02 2010 10:36 Assault_1 wrote:
howcome archon's dont have splash against air units, people don't seem to be complaining about this so must be a good reason?
Archons don't have splash against air units? Is this true?
I just assumed they did since it would be completely retarded for them not to, especially after nerfing their attack rate so hard.
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On June 02 2010 05:23 zoltanium wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:19 asdfTT123 wrote:
LOL! Decreased Archon warp time by 5 seconds? That's the last buff that P needs. Thanks Blizzard for an amazing job well done, as always. -_- Considering they took the ultralisk in the direction that TL has been wanting it to be in, I think blizzard did a pretty good job.
Remember unless your favorite race is buffed the patch is useless. sigh
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On June 02 2010 10:36 Assault_1 wrote:
howcome archon's dont have splash against air units, people don't seem to be complaining about this so must be a good reason?
Because phoenix fly backwards while pewing pewing. Protoss has no problem countering air so no one has bothered demanding buffs to it.
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On June 02 2010 10:36 Assault_1 wrote:
howcome archon's dont have splash against air units, people don't seem to be complaining about this so must be a good reason?
They do have splash, actually. With the recent patch, you can actually use it, too ^_^
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swweeeeeet! archons build a little faster? good thing theyre still a completly unless unit (aside from mass speedling, which, who really does that in 1v1). why doesnt the TOSS unless unit get buffs like the zergs ultra does. and what about the pointless terran units......... o wait they dont have any
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On June 02 2010 10:39 Zutta wrote:
swweeeeeet! archons build a little faster? good thing theyre still a completly unless unit (aside from mass speedling, which, who really does that in 1v1). why doesnt the TOSS unless unit get buffs like the zergs ultra does. and what about the pointless terran units......... o wait they dont have any
Would you rather that Blizzard not do anything and make it look like they don't even acknowledge the unit?
Exactly.
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Wow wut total bs *buffs* to Z... that is not what Z needed at all...
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On June 02 2010 10:40 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:39 Zutta wrote:
swweeeeeet! archons build a little faster? good thing theyre still a completly unless unit (aside from mass speedling, which, who really does that in 1v1). why doesnt the TOSS unless unit get buffs like the zergs ultra does. and what about the pointless terran units......... o wait they dont have any Would you rather that Blizzard not do anything and make it look like they don't even acknowledge the unit? Exactly.
Carrier.
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On June 02 2010 10:39 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:36 Assault_1 wrote:
howcome archon's dont have splash against air units, people don't seem to be complaining about this so must be a good reason? They do have splash, actually. With the recent patch, you can actually use it, too ^_^
was it lack of splash against ground then? I was sure they have splash against one but not the other..
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Judging by some of the posts in this thread, I'm guessing the average age here is around 12.
just relax, it's a beta. Not every single hole or imbalance will be fixed. They probably won't be all "fixed" for another 6 months. So why don't you just adjust and try to enjoy the game in the meantime.
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On June 02 2010 10:43 FlamingTurd wrote:
Wow wut total bs *buffs* to Z... that is not what Z needed at all...
not bs buffs, zerg is fine, we could only get more units or habilities to make it funnier. I don't understand how can no one notice how good of a buff it is...
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On June 02 2010 10:51 ilbh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:43 FlamingTurd wrote:
Wow wut total bs *buffs* to Z... that is not what Z needed at all... not bs buffs, zerg is fine, we could only get more units or habilities to make it funnier. I don't understand how can no one notice how good of a buff it is...
You obviously dont play Zerg. Zerg is far from fine. Try playing Zerg against Terran Mech
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Why isn't there any word on the games not counting??
-_-
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On June 02 2010 10:50 ZergTurd wrote:
Judging by some of the posts in this thread, I'm guessing the average age here is around 12.
just relax, it's a beta. Not every single hole or imbalance will be fixed. They probably won't be all "fixed" for another 6 months. So why don't you just adjust and try to enjoy the game in the meantime.
The goal of a beta is to "enjoy the game" ? I thought the goal was to give constructive feadbacks to blizzard so they balance/improve the game. And the fact that fenzy/ corruptor ability/ infested terran are ability which are useless / non fun to use / completely irrevelant in a game is a feadback that blizzard need to look at.
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United States12240 Posts
On June 02 2010 09:43 Paramore wrote:
voidrays range nerf was pretty substantial... rines actually counter them now.. so sad.. tier 1 unit counters heavy air unit...
That's sort of the design... Even in the very first reveal of SC2 when they showed Void Rays, they showed them completely decimating Battlecruisers but getting annihilated when facing mass Marines. They're supposed to be good against armored units that have a lot of HP since their attack gets stronger over time, and weak against large numbers of small units.
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To those saying the Overlord/seer speed increase makes the upgrade more strategic, I have one word: Warpgate.
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On June 02 2010 09:36 Salv wrote:
Eventually Blizzard will realize the imbalance with Vikings/Tanks. No P air beats vikings, and no P ground beats tanks, there is literally nothing you can do against a Tank/Hellion/Viking army once they hit a certain point. The only thing that seemed somewhat viable was mass carrier with upgrades, at similar resources spent, you'll survive against vikings with a couple carriers left-over. However considering that vikings can be made way, way quicker than carriers, that isn't even feasible.
As of right now, I just rush Terrans. There is a chance that will go bio-ball, or some other beatable strategy, but I am thoroughly convinced that nothing the Protoss has can deal with Tank/Viking/Hellion.
You think P has it bad? Z doesn't even have storm, immortals or colossi to survive the midgame vs mech. All they can do is build roaches and hope the T forgot to build a raven/turret.
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On June 02 2010 10:05 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 09:36 Salv wrote:
Eventually Blizzard will realize the imbalance with Vikings/Tanks. No P air beats vikings, and no P ground beats tanks, there is literally nothing you can do against a Tank/Hellion/Viking army once they hit a certain point. The only thing that seemed somewhat viable was mass carrier with upgrades, at similar resources spent, you'll survive against vikings with a couple carriers left-over. However considering that vikings can be made way, way quicker than carriers, that isn't even feasible.
As of right now, I just rush Terrans. There is a chance that will go bio-ball, or some other beatable strategy, but I am thoroughly convinced that nothing the Protoss has can deal with Tank/Viking/Hellion. Mass Phoenix will buttfuck that composition. Phoenix cost slightly more gas than Vikings, have more HP and move speed than Vikings, and have greater DPS against Vikings than Vikings do against Phoenix. Phoenix are light armored --> Vikings suck gopher dicks.
This is wrong. Phoenix's cost more than Vikings for one, so they will always have more, also a viking will beat a phoenix in a straight up fight. Even so, using mass phoenix to lift up tanks has been tried, and it doesn't work. You will be able to lift up some siege tanks, but you won't be able to get through the hellions before the remaining siege tanks drop to the ground and decimate your ground army. You won't be able to lift up the tanks again because your phoenix's will be gone at this point.
This strategy does work when they make marine/tank/viking, because colossi will rip through the marines very, very quickly, however there is a flaw in this as well. You have no idea whether the opponent will be making hellion/tank/viking, or marine/tank/viking, and the phoenix counter that works versus marines doesn't work at all versus hellion/tank/viking. So why is that a problem? Because in order for the phoenix strategy to work, you have to add a stargate and pump phoenixes the second you see siege tanks. If you wait too long, you won't have enough phoenix to make the strategy work. Essentially, you have to start a build to counter marine/tank/viking, before you even know if that's the composition they will use. A good terran player will be scouting his base with viking/raven to kill your stray observers, so that isn't an option either.
Tanks variation builds are simply too powerful versus Protoss, it's been said multiple times and the only persons I see disagree are bad Protoss', and Terrans who want to think that they are just amazing players, and not that their army composition is simply not possible to effectively stop.
On June 02 2010 11:13 teamsolid wrote:
You think P has it bad? Z doesn't even have storm, immortals or colossi to survive the midgame vs mech. All they can do is build roaches and hope the T forgot to build a raven/turret.
It's true that a Protoss can survive mid game, but that doesn't matter. The second critical mass is reached with tanks and vikings, any unit composition ceases to have any effectiveness. I don't know that much about ZvT, I have heard that a similar balance exists, and I have heard it from a lot of reputable sources. All I know is that there is a big flaw in PvT right now and it needs to be fixed.
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EPT
