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On June 02 2010 09:05 ViRii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 08:58 NATO wrote:
Could this be fixed by giving phoenix their overload ability back, while nerfing charged void rays (maybe reducing chargedown time)?. This isn't really related to your question, but it kind of spawned this idea for me. Would it completely break the game to give Void Rays an "overheating" event if they are charged for too long? It would definitely stop the ridiculous dps coming out of group of 10 void rays.
Interesting....although void rays should still counter all the huge units (thor, battlecruiser, ultra, mothership), buildings, and do well against largish units that aren't not meant to be AA like queen.
Thinking about this, maybe there should be a way for Terran to destroy the charge of void rays in their base - as the only real problem is if they get in a Terrans based and charge up they are practically invincible. This has a similar effect to overheat, but requires a proper response, so someone ignoring their base, or busy microing a huge battle would still get pwnt (as they should).
I'm leaning towards putting this in ghost. Now that I think about it, if lockdown were added, ghost+marines could just pwn void ray harass. (This would prevent the shield charging/ledge abuse of the void ray.) Obviously lockdown would need to be hugely nerfed from sc1 because of smartcasting. I'd say shorter period, and significantly higher energy cost (same range). Also, put as upgrade, so the Terran must scout that it is needed. Finally, it would not work against massive units. (Locking down mothership would be quite OP, to an already weak mothership.)
I'm thinking 125 energy to cast (only one per ghost), and a fairly short time (don't know exact numbers for that, but think very short like 4 seconds?).
Also, if that's too OP, make the unit still be able to attack, but it removes the ability to use ANY unit abilities (including VR charge - which would reset it).
Anyone have an idea to a balanced mechanic that could stop VR charge, while keeping VR powerful? Also, Zerg input would be great here as I haven't played as Zerg in a long time (so many patches since then.)
ALSO: If this is added, VR should get back it's 7 range.
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On June 02 2010 09:37 NATO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 09:05 ViRii wrote:On June 02 2010 08:58 NATO wrote:
Could this be fixed by giving phoenix their overload ability back, while nerfing charged void rays (maybe reducing chargedown time)?. This isn't really related to your question, but it kind of spawned this idea for me. Would it completely break the game to give Void Rays an "overheating" event if they are charged for too long? It would definitely stop the ridiculous dps coming out of group of 10 void rays. Interesting....although void rays should still counter all the huge units (thor, battlecruiser, ultra, mothership), buildings, and do well against largish units that aren't not meant to be AA like queen. Thinking about this, maybe there should be a way for Terran to destroy the charge of void rays in their base - as the only real problem is if they get in a Terrans based and charge up they are practically invincible. This has a similar effect to overheat, but requires a proper response, so someone ignoring their base, or busy microing a huge battle would still get pwnt (as they should). I'm leaning towards putting this in ghost. Now that I think about it, if lockdown were added, ghost+marines could just pwn void ray harass. (This would prevent the shield charging/ledge abuse of the void ray.) Obviously lockdown would need to be hugely nerfed from sc1 because of smartcasting. I'd say shorter period, and significantly higher energy cost (same range). Also, put as upgrade, so the Terran must scout that it is needed. Finally, it would not work against massive units. (Locking down mothership would be quite OP, to an already weak mothership.) Anyone have an idea to a balanced mechanic that could stop VR charge, while keeping VR powerful? Also, Zerg input would be great here as I haven't played as Zerg in a long time (so many patches since then.)
void ray is just fine... thats my idea
i play random btw
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voidrays range nerf was pretty substantial... rines actually counter them now.. so sad.. tier 1 unit counters heavy air unit...
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EMP should set the charge of Void Rays back to 0.
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On June 02 2010 09:43 Paramore wrote:
voidrays range nerf was pretty substantial... rines actually counter them now.. so sad.. tier 1 unit counters heavy air unit...
what are you talking about, thats what made bw great
tier 1, 2 and 3 all useful in lategame (ie. tier 1 lings in lategame zerg)
and m&m countered carriers in bw too
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Overlord speed nerfed. That's odd. It's still an upgrade you usually get, but was it too strong at 50/50?
Looks like they finally did what I knew they should have done for a long time. Trim the roach and ultra upgrades and just make them innate. Ultra generally still not worth using.
And more futile attempts to make infested terran worth using..
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On June 02 2010 09:36 Salv wrote:
Eventually Blizzard will realize the imbalance with Vikings/Tanks. No P air beats vikings, and no P ground beats tanks, there is literally nothing you can do against a Tank/Hellion/Viking army once they hit a certain point. The only thing that seemed somewhat viable was mass carrier with upgrades, at similar resources spent, you'll survive against vikings with a couple carriers left-over. However considering that vikings can be made way, way quicker than carriers, that isn't even feasible.
As of right now, I just rush Terrans. There is a chance that will go bio-ball, or some other beatable strategy, but I am thoroughly convinced that nothing the Protoss has can deal with Tank/Viking/Hellion.
Mass Phoenix will buttfuck that composition. Phoenix cost slightly more gas than Vikings, have more HP and move speed than Vikings, and have greater DPS against Vikings than Vikings do against Phoenix.
Phoenix are light armored --> Vikings suck gopher dicks.
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On June 02 2010 10:05 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 09:36 Salv wrote:
Eventually Blizzard will realize the imbalance with Vikings/Tanks. No P air beats vikings, and no P ground beats tanks, there is literally nothing you can do against a Tank/Hellion/Viking army once they hit a certain point. The only thing that seemed somewhat viable was mass carrier with upgrades, at similar resources spent, you'll survive against vikings with a couple carriers left-over. However considering that vikings can be made way, way quicker than carriers, that isn't even feasible.
As of right now, I just rush Terrans. There is a chance that will go bio-ball, or some other beatable strategy, but I am thoroughly convinced that nothing the Protoss has can deal with Tank/Viking/Hellion. Mass Phoenix will buttfuck that composition. Phoenix cost slightly more gas than Vikings, have more HP and move speed than Vikings, and have greater DPS against Vikings than Vikings do against Phoenix. Phoenix are light armored --> Vikings suck gopher dicks.
if you go mass phoenix, Terran can just add marines pumped with reactors
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On June 02 2010 08:58 NATO wrote:
Anyone have an idea to a balanced mechanic that could stop VR charge, while keeping VR powerful? Also, Zerg input would be great here as I haven't played as Zerg in a long time (so many patches since then.)
ALSO: If this is added, VR should get back it's 7 range.
I never had a problem with the void ray range but I could see how it was easy just to mass void ray against t. I don't know enough about the m/u to know if it was actually imba or just tough to deal with. I've heard that it was tough to deal with but not impossible. Maybe make the void ray do a % damage against stuff so it kills buildings and armored units with high hp faster but doesn't instakill rines when fully charged? That being said I don't think vr needs a change pvz.
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On June 02 2010 09:15 XFire wrote:
According to a blue, the increase in pneumatized carapace cost is to make it more of a "choice" than a "given".
I dunno, it seemed like I never really had a choice because of the clear cut advantages it gives (1) Zerg has the weakest scouting ability inside opponent bases (1) Terran and Protoss Air harassment is particularly devestating against Zerg (3) Spreading creep is super advantageous for any ground army composition.
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On June 02 2010 09:29 zomgzergrush wrote:
I honestly actually never seen burrowed infestors...
I honestly didn't know they could move while burrowed.
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On June 02 2010 10:05 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 09:36 Salv wrote:
Eventually Blizzard will realize the imbalance with Vikings/Tanks. No P air beats vikings, and no P ground beats tanks, there is literally nothing you can do against a Tank/Hellion/Viking army once they hit a certain point. The only thing that seemed somewhat viable was mass carrier with upgrades, at similar resources spent, you'll survive against vikings with a couple carriers left-over. However considering that vikings can be made way, way quicker than carriers, that isn't even feasible.
As of right now, I just rush Terrans. There is a chance that will go bio-ball, or some other beatable strategy, but I am thoroughly convinced that nothing the Protoss has can deal with Tank/Viking/Hellion. Mass Phoenix will buttfuck that composition. Phoenix cost slightly more gas than Vikings, have more HP and move speed than Vikings, and have greater DPS against Vikings than Vikings do against Phoenix. Phoenix are light armored --> Vikings suck gopher dicks.
Good luck fighting Range 9 mass Vikings with your Range 4 mass Phoenixes.
Oh, and Vikings are heavy armored --> Phoenixes suck donkey balls.
And before anybody says Immortals, Vikings en masse will slay Immortals like there's no tomorrow >.>
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When are they just gonna scrap all the Wc3-ish nonsense? Getting sick of Autoturret Spam in my base. Can't wait for Infested Terrans too.
Ill trade my Mothership for the Far Seer, please.
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On June 02 2010 09:45 Grimjim wrote:
EMP should set the charge of Void Rays back to 0.
I was just going to say this. I'd also like it to break force fields, but that's probably a bit much.
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On June 02 2010 10:09 mousepad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 09:15 XFire wrote:
According to a blue, the increase in pneumatized carapace cost is to make it more of a "choice" than a "given". I dunno, it seemed like I never really had a choice because of the clear cut advantages it gives (1) Zerg has the weakest scouting ability inside opponent bases (1) Terran and Protoss Air harassment is particularly devestating against Zerg (3) Spreading creep is super advantageous for any ground army composition.
Yeah psy said the nerf wasn't that big of a deal but to me it seemed pretty significant for tank drops on lost temple and being able to counter attack terran's base faster. I've also noticed my timings a bit off for not scouting vr's fast enough where I would catch it in time before. I probably just have to adjust and maybe it's not that big of a deal even though 300/300 for drops seems like a lot.
otoh roaches seem to be good again. Maybe even too good against toss?
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On June 02 2010 10:13 Jokey665 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 09:45 Grimjim wrote:
EMP should set the charge of Void Rays back to 0. I was just going to say this. I'd also like it to break force fields, but that's probably a bit much.
It's not enough that EMP already rapes the fuck out of Void Rays?
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On June 02 2010 05:25 professorjoak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:22 Chill wrote:
Why is it 2.9531? Does Blizzard really need accuracy to 4 decimal places? 61/64 = 0.953125 edit: the technical reason why we need a power of 2: + Show Spoiler +To be more specific, 2.95 does not have an exact representation in finite precision floating point arithmetic because the number is binary when in the computer. If the denominator is a power of 2, however, the number can be represented exactly. You'll accumulate roundoff error over time because you are adding 2.95+error to itself every timestep. It's probably not a big deal; most likely it would just give your hydralisk has an unnoticeably small random variation in speed, but it might lead to weird collision detection bugs so it's best to just remove the ambiguity and work in powers of 2. Real-world example of when counting time in a base-10 increment instead of a base-2 increment caused roundoff error that made a Patriot Missile system fail during the Gulf War: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RoundoffError.html
Thanks for the awesome post 
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Can they please just get rid of the Infested Terran unit? It adds absolutly nothing to the game, is a copy of the auto turrets and has that wierd "guns and armour from nowhere" awkwardness.
At the very least make Contaminate spawn Infested Terrans when cast on a Terran building. Its ok to have a racially specific ability like EMP.
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like the ultra buff, dont think its enough but its a big step in the right direction, more HP AND speed.
HATE the archon change, it just seems like another excuse for blizzard to make it a useless unit, even better now at filling the role of morph after you are done with templar so you can meat shield a little instead of being an actually viable late-game unit worth 300 gas
I hope the change concussive shells and warpgate to 100/100 as well, those arnt really choices either, you just always get them.
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On June 02 2010 08:12 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 08:01 Evilruler wrote:On June 02 2010 07:14 s031720 wrote:
I personally dont like the new spells; a spell that buffs or nerfs 1 unit really is meaningless in a game that mainly deals with clashes of greatnumber of units. I hope they remove them or make them AoE. As it is now, these spells fit better in WC3 that is much more micro-oriented.
I agree. These spells just stink WC3. This is SC, for god's sake, who cares about one unit in an army? SC is about great numbers, wtf is up with spells that makes 1 unit easier to kill, 1 unit stronger, this is a war, this isn't a small camp battle, there is no hero here. What really makes me angry is that instead of working with concepts and using these holes in the Z (these skills - corruption, frenzy and, bleh, infested terran), that nobody uses, and even if use, it isn't fun, it doesn't fit in the game, holy god THEY DON'T FIT... Instead of using this oportunity to bring some really cool stuff for Z they just sit around and "meh, let's just put some WC3 stuff and it'll be fine. If anything goes wrong, woa, we can just BALANCE the numbers and it'll be allright!". Not that I entirely disagree with you, but I just want to give a few SC1 examples of single target spells: - Defensive matrix. - Restoration 
On the same vein- Optic flare & Lockdown 
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EPT
