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On June 02 2010 08:15 roymarthyup wrote:
oh my god, now with 12 damage it takes a viking 4 hits to kill a 45 hp worker.
last patch it took a viking only 4 hits to kill a worker with its 14 damage.
damn, what a nerf!
Z drones and P probes have 40 hp. It now takes 1 more hit to kill them. Pathetic harassment abilities. Vikings are totally 1 dimensional now. Boring and bad for gameplay.
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LOL Zergs are getting nerfed the past 2-3 patches? what the fuck? first roach 2 supply, now nerf again? fuck off blizzard.
i'm only playing terran or protoss.
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On June 02 2010 08:30 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:10 -orb- wrote:
sigh... waste of a patch.
No effective changes to toss
No one cared about viking's ground damage... it was the air damage that matters. How about like range 6 instead of the ridiculous range 9?
Zerg changes are meh First of all, vikings range is 8 -- surprised you didnt know that. Second of all, its pretty obvious you are just mad you can't VR rush as effectively anymore, especially after the range nerf, and therefore viking range and damage is imba. You mad. Switch race or keep whining because honestly, although you are 'known' because of your stream, you won't be truly respected until you take a more objective look at the game.
Here is an objective look for you.
Zerg needed the buffs and may need more. We shall see over the next few days how they benefit.
Terran has not needed any of the buffs they have gotten for a while now. Terran is quickly getting imba and the bio ball as of patch 13 just pushed into stupidity.
Toss has not needed any of the nerfs it has received in the past several patches. The Voidray nerf was a kneejerk reaction pushed by sub par players wanting their inability to adapt fixed in game. Voids likely would of been just fine with just the stim change alone. Terran of course can't see that because most of them can't see beyond "I wanna mass maruader ftw and I can't". So Toss is quickly simply going from the most complete race where Terran and Zerg just needed to be tuned to be on par, to being a big kneejerk nerf fest rollercoaster of good one patch and gimped the next.
Back OT:
Decent overall patch, however given how close it is to end of beta I am highly disappointed not to see a number of changes.
Zerg got a bunch of changes so not going to comment on them. I want to see how they actually play out.
Terran
-As mentioned the Viking change was mostly pointless. It wasn't the vikings ground dmg that was the problem, it was its air damage given how easy it can be massed.
-Marauders remain imbalanced with stim. Eliminate stim and I think maruaders are fine, or eliminate the stupid amount of damage they do to buildings. One unit can't have the best of all worlds here. If Blizz is unwilling to remove stim from them, then at the very least they need their bonus to buildings removed.
Protoss
- This patch has proved the Void nerf was overboard and did more damage to PVP and PVZ then it helped in PVT. Range needs to be restored while T keeps the stim upgrade. If voids somehow manage to start getting abused against T again (unlikely), then perhaps 1 more range on turrets might be in order.
- Protoss still lacks any kind of counter to EMP. EMP was perfectly balance in SC:BW from a defense perspective because toss could utilize shield batteries to mitigate it somewhat. Lack of this strips away defenders advantage and turns 1 ghost into a 1 man wrecking ball vs toss. Before anyone argues feedback, I dare them to post multiple replays of them successfully and reliably feedbacking 1 ghost in the middle of a bio ball. Especially if it is an early to early midgame push. Clearly emp is fine for toss aggression, but there needs to be some form of base defenders advantage. Right now emp just straight strips that away instantly.
- Carriers Why do they still take 120s to build? I think this may be the biggest hinderance to them being used. The build time is just silly. Battle cruisers are what 75s now? I forget exactly but somewhere close to half the time.
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On June 02 2010 08:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 08:33 SC2Phoenix wrote:
wow nice changes until i read that ultralisk speed increased but the upgrade was removed. Paying 150/150 wasnt the issue it was even with the upgrade they are still so sluggish.... Oh ffs, zerg players pretty much unanimously said that the ultralisk should start with the speed upgrade because you needed the speed to make them useful and it took too long to get speed... now blizzard gives you exactly what you want (which might be deserved) and you complain that it's still not fast enough? Wtf do you want your ultras to be as fast as speed lings? gtfo.
lol i totally agree with this comment, people need to quit the nerdraging just because its fun
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On June 02 2010 08:50 MayZerG wrote:
LOL Zergs are getting nerfed the past 2-3 patches? what the fuck? first roach 2 supply, now nerf again? fuck off blizzard.
i'm only playing terran or protoss.
huh what am I missing here? I see no zerg nerfs
edit: ah right, the Pneumatized Carapace
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On June 02 2010 08:46 Draken wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 08:38 RoMarX wrote:overall good patch imo. game-breaking changes arent good, the best way to balance a game is to balance slowly, blizz knows how to do it  Wise words. I like this patch. The Ultras are now useful, or shall we say not as useless as before. What I would really like to see is a slight range on the ultralisk, even very small distance to let them hit when they are surrounded by a mass of other smaller zerg units. Maybe something similar to marauder's range. When I try ultralisks, they get blocked, start running around with that retarded pathing logic and die before doing damage. That is the main issue I have with them, fix it and you'll have a viable unit.
Is this a mistake? Marauders have a pretty respectable range on them. Something like the firebat might be alright but Ultras are looking a lot better so it might not even be needed.
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On June 02 2010 08:50 MayZerG wrote:
LOL Zergs are getting nerfed the past 2-3 patches? what the fuck? first roach 2 supply, now nerf again? fuck off blizzard.
i'm only playing terran or protoss.
the roach nerf wasnt even that bad, two upgrades were essentially condensed into 1 and now you just need to burrow the roaches in order to get the regen back
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Corruptor
Corruption energy cost decreased from 100 to 75.
A great buff, but a very underused ability. I guess this is the answer to Vikings?
Infestor
Burrowed move speed increased from 1 to 2.
Peristalsis upgrade removed.
A cool buff to them, still wish burrowed units went under buildings.
Overlord/Overseer
Pneumatized Carapace cost increased from 50/50 to 100/100.
Because Zerg drops were TOTALLY Op and not at all one of the few counters we had to a hardcore turtled Terran. I don't understand his nerf at all.
Overseer
Infested Terran energy cost decreased from 125 to 100.
Cool, but I still don't get the purpose. Anyone worth their salt in this game kills that slow moving thing so fast.. increase its health, or rate of fire or something...
Roach
Organic Carapace upgrade removed.
Tunneling Claws now also increases burrowed regeneration rate from 5 to 10.
Cool little buff, 1 upgrade gets tunneling claws and increased regen rate.. Love it.
Ultralisk
Anabolic Synthesis upgrade removed.
Health increased from 450 to 500.
Speed increased from 2.25 to 2.9531.
I still don't think they are going to be that useful in game. Speed wasn't an issue, it was just how huge and clunky they are. I guess Blizz wants them to be like Thors.. but Thors can blend into an army well, Ultras have to be in melee range.. so maybe mix them like muta/hydra/ultra? I don't think that would work. I don't know how to fix this unit, but it's not by making it move faster and giving it slightly more health.
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On June 02 2010 08:48 link0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 08:15 roymarthyup wrote:
oh my god, now with 12 damage it takes a viking 4 hits to kill a 45 hp worker.
last patch it took a viking only 4 hits to kill a worker with its 14 damage.
damn, what a nerf! Z drones and P probes have 40 hp. It now takes 1 more hit to kill them. Pathetic harassment abilities. Vikings are totally 1 dimensional now. Boring and bad for gameplay.
Nonsens... When did you see anyone harass with a single viking? They still obliterate workers when you have a few of them, and this damage nerf doesn't change that.
What it changes is that they had basically the same *base* DPS as a tank and some other units, while now you can get some better bang for the buck with a few other units, which means you will see more diversity now.
In terms of strategy, this changes the terran vs terran matchup mostly, as they were turning into viking wars. Now you can make some other ground units and have a slight DPS advantage so viking isnt > than all now.
Good stuff.
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Reactor on starport is really troubling in PvT still now when you can get fast stim+concussive with 150/150. Vikings mass up so fast and P can't really attack with anything on the ground. T can go 2 based quite safe and fast.
I don't think that the damages or ranges are so imbalanced. And not suggesting that viking should go to tech lab just think that maybe build times on concussive and vikings should be looked into.
Concussives on smaller maps like Steppes and Incineration Zone are just ridicilous right now.
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Seems Incineration Zone is missing from my 1v1 Map Preferences, wonder if it was stealth taken out of the pool for some reason? Anybody had games on it post patch?
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On June 02 2010 08:45 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 08:33 NATO wrote:On June 02 2010 05:10 -orb- wrote:
sigh... waste of a patch.
No effective changes to toss
No one cared about viking's ground damage... it was the air damage that matters. How about like range 6 instead of the ridiculous range 9?
Zerg changes are meh With the utmost respect, if Viking range was reduced to 6, what would Terran have to counter Colossus and Void Rays. (Yes, I know there are other ways to counter void rays, but they all involve either making a push or giving up map control, as far as I know.) Well, here's my issues with the Viking/Void Ray dynamic: 1) Vikings outrange all of the Protoss' anti-Air units, so its easy for Terran to walk up to your front gate with Siege Tanks and establish a Siege when they're protected by Vikings. This also makes it impossible to protect your Collossi from Vikings when there are Siege Tanks nearby. Your Stalkers, Sentries and Void Rays can't get anywhere near to kill the Vikings when there's a blob of Marines, Marauders and/or Tanks nearby. 2) Fully-charged Void Rays utterly destroy Vikings, cost-for-cost, if they get too close. 3) Fully-charged, upgraded Void Rays raaaaaaaape Vikings, cost-for-cost, and there's not a damn thing the Terran can do about it except bring a buttload of Marines around with them (the Vikings can't kite, and the Void Rays get within range instantly, with the speed/acceleration upgrade and unequivocally rape them). 4) Uncharged Void Rays, speed upgrade or not, suck intergalactic space donkey dick against Vikings. Because of this, all of my PvTs turn into "Distract him over here, send a wad of upgraded Void Rays into his base, charge up to full, wait for Vikings to arrive (without Marine backup), utterly rape them, then harass until victory". It feels so frigging lame, but its the only thing that seems to work for me. There just doesn't seem to be any point playing 'properly' when you can't protect your Collossi...ever, and it takes forever and a ton of gas to get HTs and Psi Storm (the only other alternative to the M+M+Tank+Viking blob)
Could this be fixed by giving phoenix their overload ability back, while nerfing charged void rays (maybe reducing chargedown time)?
In this scenario, a properly microed group of phoenixs can fly in (way faster than vikings) and overload to take them out, making them a proper AA unit that is equal in power to vikings. (In a, whoever controls them best wins kinda way, instead of just vikings outright owning phoenix.)
Now to consider the unintended consequences: would this make phoenix OP vs zerg? Well, if used against mutas, which they already are supposed to counter, the mutas can just fly away because they are fast, and then quickly come back to destroy them while they are defenseless - so no new disadvantages vs mutas. Vs brood lords: hey, something other than blinking stalkers that counters them if used properly (but only if used properly, otherwise they die to ground army). VS corruptor: looks like same dynamic vs viking, although corruptors probably suck too much now for that to be necessary. Maybe we need a corrupter buff here (give it some support abilities just like viking and phoenix already have).
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Viking nerf breaks the game, there is now NO reason for anyone to ever play Terran again. I guess all Terran will just play Toss or Zerg now... GG Blizz, now we only have 2 viable races. way to make Terran 100% worthless and buff the most OP races in the game. RIP Terran, you had a good run but now it's officially over, and no Terran will ever win any game ever again. It is a sad sad day for former Terran players, But at least Terran can still be useful in 4v4 massing expos and feeding the OP races with mules and SCVs...
GG Blizz, GG...
No but really, good patch overall.
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idk how i feel about the roach tunneling claws hp regen and im zerg. it feels really strong to me but idk we'll see. i hate the ov speed nerf but not that big of a deal i guess. im kind of sad for the viking getting a nerf. it did insane dps but was it really that bad or are they just nerfing it cause it seems like it does a ton of dsp even though it might not be a problem? overall im happy with the patch considering patch 12 and 13.
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Archon buff makes little to no difference, they're not used anyway.
Viking nerf makes little to no difference, they're not used on the ground anyway.
Corruption buff makes little to no difference, nobody uses that spell anyway.
Infester changes I like, increased movement speed while burrowed might make an infester harass more viable.
Overlord speed nerf I like, 50/50 always seemed WAY too cheep for that.
Roach change I guess is a buff since you don't need to research two things to get the same effect, but roaches still need to go back to one food.
Ultralisk buff I like, might make them worth anything at all, but we'll see how it plays out.
Just my opinions as a pretty average terran player.
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On June 02 2010 08:58 NATO wrote:
Could this be fixed by giving phoenix their overload ability back, while nerfing charged void rays (maybe reducing chargedown time)?.
This isn't really related to your question, but it kind of spawned this idea for me. Would it completely break the game to give Void Rays an "overheating" event if they are charged for too long? It would definitely stop the ridiculous dps coming out of group of 10 void rays.
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First of all, vikings range is 8 -- surprised you didnt know that.
meh. try hard fail.
i actually like this patch. i don't play Z but it looks like they were trying to improve on some of the problems ie: more life/ speed to ultra, making infestor more useful (can burrow move with army for better positioning and escape), bringing back the roach burrow incentive (now maybe Z will force better obs) etc.
as a toss im glad we didnt get nerfed : p and wonder if a phoenix harass vs Z has some different timings with the overlord change.
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I think the roach buff is Blizzard's way of saying, " Yea their not designed for late game."
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why do z-players find unfair that a roach has the same supply requirement than a zealot (the least food-expensive unit in the whole toss army)? Can you imagine a zealot eating twice as much food than a roach?
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It would be awesome if people didn't complain about at least one patch. This patch was perfectly fine - it didn't break anything, and it fine tuned some things. If anything people were given what they wanted.
tl;dr QQ moar pls
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EPT
