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On June 02 2010 08:01 Evilruler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 07:14 s031720 wrote:
I personally dont like the new spells; a spell that buffs or nerfs 1 unit really is meaningless in a game that mainly deals with clashes of greatnumber of units. I hope they remove them or make them AoE. As it is now, these spells fit better in WC3 that is much more micro-oriented.
I agree. These spells just stink WC3. This is SC, for god's sake, who cares about one unit in an army? SC is about great numbers, wtf is up with spells that makes 1 unit easier to kill, 1 unit stronger, this is a war, this isn't a small camp battle, there is no hero here. What really makes me angry is that instead of working with concepts and using these holes in the Z (these skills - corruption, frenzy and, bleh, infested terran), that nobody uses, and even if use, it isn't fun, it doesn't fit in the game, holy god THEY DON'T FIT... Instead of using this oportunity to bring some really cool stuff for Z they just sit around and "meh, let's just put some WC3 stuff and it'll be fine. If anything goes wrong, woa, we can just BALANCE the numbers and it'll be allright!".
The puzzling thing isn't so much the single-target spells as their minor effects. Useful single-target spells generally ruin the target (Feedback, Mind Control/Irradiate/Neural Parasite, Yamato/Irradiate/Broodling, Lockdown) or provide a HUGE buff (D-matrix, although it cost somewhat more than it was generally worth). Graviton Beam is something of an oddball, but it does completely disable the target AND (potentially) expose it to greater damage.
Corrupt is just so minor. The Devourer had a more potent effect as a passive ability on its attack. And Frenzy isn't any better...
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As a zerg player I feel this is a pretty good patch.
The Pneumatized Carapace cost increased from 50/50 to 100/100 kind of hurts. I think it should be at 75/75 since 50/50 was a joke and whenever I got lair I could get overlord speed for nothing.
Also I still wish the Infested Terran cost something like 75 energy; I mean seriously, the Infested Terran does not last long at all. Even if you drop them into the mineral line or something, all you have to do is move your workers away for like 5 seconds. =(
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oh my god, now with 12 damage it takes a viking 4 hits to kill a 45 hp worker.
last patch it took a viking only 4 hits to kill a worker with its 14 damage.
damn, what a nerf!
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On June 02 2010 08:03 Backpack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 07:14 s031720 wrote:
I personally dont like the new spells; a spell that buffs or nerfs 1 unit really is meaningless in a game that mainly deals with clashes of greatnumber of units. I hope they remove them or make them AoE. As it is now, these spells fit better in WC3 that is much more micro-oriented.
weren't people complaining about there not being enough micro in SC2? make up your mind folks
it's a different kind of micro though. even then it's not the WC3-ness of a spell like frenzy that bothers me. it's that it's so generic. the unit just glows and starts spewing smoke or some shit and becomes more powerful, it's sooo warcraft/d&d/whatever generic fantasy. it's just not cool in the context of starcraft and it lacks imagination.
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On June 02 2010 08:15 roymarthyup wrote:
oh my god, now with 12 damage it takes a viking 4 hits to kill a 45 hp worker.
last patch it took a viking only 4 hits to kill a worker with its 14 damage.
damn, what a nerf!
Agreed, I haven't really seen many games where ground mode Vikings have had too much of an impact. Banshee's are probably the unit that needs the nerf, if any, probably make them slightly longer to build to help against Banshee rush.
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On June 02 2010 08:12 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 08:01 Evilruler wrote:On June 02 2010 07:14 s031720 wrote:
I personally dont like the new spells; a spell that buffs or nerfs 1 unit really is meaningless in a game that mainly deals with clashes of greatnumber of units. I hope they remove them or make them AoE. As it is now, these spells fit better in WC3 that is much more micro-oriented.
I agree. These spells just stink WC3. This is SC, for god's sake, who cares about one unit in an army? SC is about great numbers, wtf is up with spells that makes 1 unit easier to kill, 1 unit stronger, this is a war, this isn't a small camp battle, there is no hero here. What really makes me angry is that instead of working with concepts and using these holes in the Z (these skills - corruption, frenzy and, bleh, infested terran), that nobody uses, and even if use, it isn't fun, it doesn't fit in the game, holy god THEY DON'T FIT... Instead of using this oportunity to bring some really cool stuff for Z they just sit around and "meh, let's just put some WC3 stuff and it'll be fine. If anything goes wrong, woa, we can just BALANCE the numbers and it'll be allright!". Not that I entirely disagree with you, but I just want to give a few SC1 examples of single target spells: - Defensive matrix. - Restoration
Restoration, I don't know why players don't use more, especially if their whole science vessel army gets plagued
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O.o interesting patch.. Zergs changes are iffy, I still like the regen on the roach alot
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On June 02 2010 08:04 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:22 Chill wrote:
Why is it 2.9531? Does Blizzard really need accuracy to 4 decimal places? 61/64 = .9531 Whenever you see some weird decimal number, it's always an odd number divided by a power of 2.
Actually, I think its so that they're just under 5% faster than a worker. 2.9531/2.8125 = 1.04999111111
And a Worker is 25% faster than a regular unit: 2.8125/2.25 = 1.25
2.25 units = Marines, Zealots, Sentries, Marauders, Siege Tanks, Collossi, Ravens, Viking (Ground), Hydras, Roaches, Infestors, Immortals, Void Rays.
2.9531 units = Zerglings, Stalkers, Reapers, Ultras, upgraded Banelings.
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On June 02 2010 05:10 -orb- wrote:
sigh... waste of a patch.
No effective changes to toss
No one cared about viking's ground damage... it was the air damage that matters. How about like range 6 instead of the ridiculous range 9?
Zerg changes are meh
First of all, vikings range is 8 -- surprised you didnt know that.
Second of all, its pretty obvious you are just mad you can't VR rush as effectively anymore, especially after the range nerf, and therefore viking range and damage is imba.
You mad. Switch race or keep whining because honestly, although you are 'known' because of your stream, you won't be truly respected until you take a more objective look at the game.
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My game editor says they have a range of 9.
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wow nice changes until i read that ultralisk speed increased but the upgrade was removed. Paying 150/150 wasnt the issue it was even with the upgrade they are still so sluggish....
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On June 02 2010 08:31 Bibdy wrote:
My game editor says they have a range of 9.
It is 9.
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On June 02 2010 05:10 -orb- wrote:
sigh... waste of a patch.
No effective changes to toss
No one cared about viking's ground damage... it was the air damage that matters. How about like range 6 instead of the ridiculous range 9?
Zerg changes are meh
With the utmost respect, if Viking range was reduced to 6, what would Terran have to counter Colossus and Void Rays. (Yes, I know there are other ways to counter void rays, but they all involve either making a push or giving up map control, as far as I know.)
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On June 02 2010 08:33 SC2Phoenix wrote:
wow nice changes until i read that ultralisk speed increased but the upgrade was removed. Paying 150/150 wasnt the issue it was even with the upgrade they are still so sluggish....
Oh ffs, zerg players pretty much unanimously said that the ultralisk should start with the speed upgrade because you needed the speed to make them useful and it took too long to get speed... now blizzard gives you exactly what you want (which might be deserved) and you complain that it's still not fast enough? Wtf do you want your ultras to be as fast as speed lings? gtfo.
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overall good patch imo.
game-breaking changes arent good, the best way to balance a game is to balance slowly, blizz knows how to do it 
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I was thinking that if you used frenzy on roaches with the mechanic for burrow movement, you could potentially damage their economy greatly. I am not sure about this, but you might have enough energy left over for a fungal growth. This would greatly help with harassment.
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On June 02 2010 08:33 NATO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:10 -orb- wrote:
sigh... waste of a patch.
No effective changes to toss
No one cared about viking's ground damage... it was the air damage that matters. How about like range 6 instead of the ridiculous range 9?
Zerg changes are meh With the utmost respect, if Viking range was reduced to 6, what would Terran have to counter Colossus and Void Rays. (Yes, I know there are other ways to counter void rays, but they all involve either making a push or giving up map control, as far as I know.)
Well, here's my issues with the Viking/Void Ray dynamic:
1) Vikings outrange all of the Protoss' anti-Air units, so its easy for Terran to walk up to your front gate with Siege Tanks and establish a Siege when they're protected by Vikings. This also makes it impossible to protect your Collossi from Vikings when there are Siege Tanks nearby. Your Stalkers, Sentries and Void Rays can't get anywhere near to kill the Vikings when there's a blob of Marines, Marauders and/or Tanks nearby.
2) Fully-charged Void Rays utterly destroy Vikings, cost-for-cost, if they get too close.
3) Fully-charged, upgraded Void Rays raaaaaaaape Vikings, cost-for-cost, and there's not a damn thing the Terran can do about it except bring a buttload of Marines around with them (the Vikings can't kite, and the Void Rays get within range instantly, with the speed/acceleration upgrade and unequivocally rape them).
4) Uncharged Void Rays, speed upgrade or not, suck intergalactic space donkey dick against Vikings.
Because of this, all of my PvTs turn into "Distract him over here, send a wad of upgraded Void Rays into his base, charge up to full, wait for Vikings to arrive (without Marine backup), utterly rape them, then harass until victory". It feels so frigging lame, but its the only thing that seems to work for me. There just doesn't seem to be any point playing 'properly' when you can't protect your Collossi...ever, and it takes forever and a ton of gas to get HTs and Psi Storm (the only other alternative to the M+M+Tank+Viking blob)
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Nice zerg buffs. But, why nerf the viking ground damage?!
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omg protoss didnt get nerfed for once
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On June 02 2010 08:38 RoMarX wrote:overall good patch imo. game-breaking changes arent good, the best way to balance a game is to balance slowly, blizz knows how to do it
Wise words.
I like this patch. The Ultras are now useful, or shall we say not as useless as before. What I would really like to see is a slight range on the ultralisk, even very small distance to let them hit when they are surrounded by a mass of other smaller zerg units. Maybe something similar to marauder's range.
When I try ultralisks, they get blocked, start running around with that retarded pathing logic and die before doing damage. That is the main issue I have with them, fix it and you'll have a viable unit.
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EPT
