EPTOn May 15 2010 08:27 Champi wrote:
There goes roaches being OP*** =P
There goes roaches being OP*** =P
i think they were OP in late game but balanced in early game
now i think they ok midgame and early but useless late game^^
Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 74
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
i think they were OP in late game but balanced in early game now i think they ok midgame and early but useless late game^^ | ||
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Baerinho
Germany257 Posts
I really really hope(but dont believe) that blizzard has the ultrachanges in the making that would make it a viable lategame tank | ||
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
On May 15 2010 08:12 crms wrote: anyone who wants to see these changes in action watch the MLG KOTBH with Slush vs qxc, at 200/200 it was a complete joke. Not to mention Slush could barely handle the early game harass. It was quite sad compared to his performance vs cauthonluck last week. I'm not saying this is a large enough sample size to deduce the change is completely bad, but at this moment it seems pretty detrimental to myself and other zerg players. It's pretty normal after a huge change. Happened to protoss too after some nerfs but people adjusted. And if zerg was overnerfed, blizz will fix. Everyone is getting so emotional over it, but this is exactly what the beta is for. We knew many major changes were still coming. Who knows, when the game is released, people will go "remember when roaches were 1 supply and 2 armor haha how OP was that shit." | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On May 15 2010 08:46 wintergt wrote: It's pretty normal after a huge change. Happened to protoss too after some nerfs but people adjusted. And if zerg was overnerfed, blizz will fix. Everyone is getting so emotional over it, but this is exactly what the beta is for. We knew many major changes were still coming. Who knows, when the game is released, people will go "remember when roaches were 1 supply and 2 armor haha how OP was that shit." You're correct, I feel the nerf was a little extreme but I have confidence blizzard will make necessary adjusments before the game goes live. While its slightly annoying I don't really mind 'my race' being slapped around, as you said it's beta after all. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20166 Posts
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Kyouya
Mexico318 Posts
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prototype.
Canada4215 Posts
On May 15 2010 08:52 decafchicken wrote: Just get rid of the roach, pu the hydra at tier one but make it cheaper like 75/25. Bump up infestor to t3 and give it a defensive area of effect spell to protect the t1 units instead of using the roach as a tank. The thing is, blizzard is hellbent on making SC2 nothing like SC:BW. | ||
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Deleted User 55994
949 Posts
On May 15 2010 08:52 decafchicken wrote: Just get rid of the roach, pu the hydra at tier one but make it cheaper like 75/25. Bump up infestor to t3 and give it a defensive area of effect spell to protect the t1 units instead of using the roach as a tank. lol, hydra t1 in their current state? No. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
just like i proposed last page, make hydra t1 but with lower damage, increase the cost of the t2 upgrade a little but in addition to the range effect it puts hydra damage back to normal. also put roach t2, give it either 2 additional armor or 25 hp more, but reduce its damage and also give it burrowed movement for free. this would divide the roles clearer for roach being good tank and hydra dps | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
Honestly it's still too early to tell whether Zerg is screwed in general, but certainly roaches have become virtually obsolete in these games. | ||
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FlameSworD
United States414 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
Remember when people freaked out and said they would quit Protoss after Warpgate nerfs? Remember when people freaked out and said they would quit Terran after Concussive shell being an upgrade? You guys only make yourselves look silly by making such a big deal out of this. In the late game, it was a 145 hp unit that regenerated HP as quickly as Storm does damage, did 16 base damage, and moved fast enough. It was totally out of control for big games with lots of bases and high tech. | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On May 15 2010 11:09 Mohdoo wrote: Every time a race has a nerf, the race does horribly shitting for like 2 weeks. Just look at what happened to Toss after the Warpgate nerf and Terran after the Marauder nerf. Remember when people freaked out and said they would quit Protoss after Warpgate nerfs? Remember when people freaked out and said they would quit Terran after Concussive shell being an upgrade? You guys only make yourselves look silly by making such a big deal out of this. In the late game, it was a 145 hp unit that regenerated HP as quickly as Storm does damage, did 16 base damage, and moved fast enough. It was totally out of control for big games with lots of bases and high tech. Remember when people said they would not use storm after the storm nu... oh wait... They still don't. Jokes  But yeah. Same deal for Ghost EMP. The rage was epic and Terrans did badly for a bit till they learned to adjust. Now EMP is fine. | ||
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Powda
United States116 Posts
On May 15 2010 11:09 Mohdoo wrote: Every time a race has a nerf, the race does horribly shitting for like 2 weeks. Just look at what happened to Toss after the Warpgate nerf and Terran after the Marauder nerf. Remember when people freaked out and said they would quit Protoss after Warpgate nerfs? Remember when people freaked out and said they would quit Terran after Concussive shell being an upgrade? You guys only make yourselves look silly by making such a big deal out of this. In the late game, it was a 145 hp unit that regenerated HP as quickly as Storm does damage, did 16 base damage, and moved fast enough. It was totally out of control for big games with lots of bases and high tech. Umm, people did freak out and leave protoss and terran, then blizzard buffed both the races, did you forget that small detail? | ||
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Johoseph
United States49 Posts
Hadn't actually watched QXC vs. Slush until now. Even Day9 says they'll probably readjust roach to 2 armor, which would be a push in the right direction, although I kind of wonder how much it would help when they sit at 2 food now. Slush even had a nice unit comp in the 2nd game, mutas, lings, blings, AND a handful of roaches, still failed to... gues what? MMM. Nice. If this next string of nerf nerf nerf buff buff buff on the roach doesn't work, they're gonna have to figure some kind of major change out for them, unit just ain't gellin right now, it's either too strong or too weak. | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On May 15 2010 11:55 Johoseph wrote: Roaches are basically shitty marauders now. Marauders get to stim, have twice the range, faster attack speed, and +dmg to armored which is essentially king in this game. And it costs them an extra 25 minerals (which probably equates to nothing with mules in play)... woooo. Hadn't actually watched QXC vs. Slush until now. Even Day9 says they'll probably readjust roach to 2 armor, which would be a push in the right direction, although I kind of wonder how much it would help when they sit at 2 food now. Slush even had a nice unit comp in the 2nd game, mutas, lings, blings, AND a handful of roaches, still failed to... gues what? MMM. Nice. If this next string of nerf nerf nerf buff buff buff on the roach doesn't work, they're gonna have to figure some kind of major change out for them, unit just ain't gellin right now, it's either too strong or too weak. Or blizzard could buff zerglings. Zerg early game looks really weak now, they used to rely on roaches to survive rushes because zerglings couldn't cut it (zerglings suck vs zealots and hellions), but now it's starting to look like you'd need to make spine crawlers just to survive. | ||
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Niten
United States598 Posts
On May 15 2010 11:55 Johoseph wrote: Roaches are basically shitty marauders now. Marauders get to stim, have twice the range, faster attack speed, concussive shell, and +dmg to armored which is essentially king in this game. And it costs them an extra 25 minerals (which probably equates to nothing with mules in play)... woooo. Hadn't actually watched QXC vs. Slush until now. Even Day9 says they'll probably readjust roach to 2 armor, which would be a push in the right direction, although I kind of wonder how much it would help when they sit at 2 food now. Slush even had a nice unit comp in the 2nd game, mutas, lings, blings, AND a handful of roaches, still failed to... gues what? MMM. Nice. If this next string of nerf nerf nerf buff buff buff on the roach doesn't work, they're gonna have to figure some kind of major change out for them, unit just ain't gellin right now, it's either too strong or too weak. Zerg needs some sort of endgame option to deal with the Terran ball... I'm hoping for something "darkswarm" inspired. It also needs a early game buff or else Z will have to wait until lair to be able to move out to get map control. | ||
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BeyondCtrL
Sweden642 Posts
On May 15 2010 12:08 Truenappa wrote: Zerg needs some sort of endgame option to deal with the Terran ball... I'm hoping for something "darkswarm" inspired. It also needs a early game buff or else Z will have to wait until lair to be able to move out to get map control. Darkswarm inspired? Seen the Raven and Point Defense Drone? Anyway, I think people are completely blowing the qxc vs, SLush game out of proportion. Yes it was a new patch and it could have bothered SLush, but then again when I look at the game it's quite evident that qxc was simply a better player when it came to control, positioning, upgrades, micro and macro (not saying SLush is bad, but qxc is a better player imo in that series). The Roach nerf isn't some huge early game nerf, it doesn't cut your Roach numbers by 50%, it nerfs the ridiculous amounts of Roaches available late game (it was seriously way too much especially considering the late game upgrades available to them). | ||
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
On May 15 2010 12:17 BeyondCtrL wrote: Darkswarm inspired? Seen the Raven and Point Defense Drone? Anyway, I think people are completely blowing the qxc vs, SLush game out of proportion. Yes it was a new patch and it could have bothered SLush, but then again when I look at the game it's quite evident that qxc was simply a better player when it came to control, positioning, upgrades, micro and macro (not saying SLush is bad, but qxc is a better player imo in that series). The Roach nerf isn't some huge early game nerf, it doesn't cut your Roach numbers by 50%, it nerfs the ridiculous amounts of Roaches available late game (it was seriously way too much especially considering the late game upgrades available to them). Watch qxc vs machine, why slush? Machine outmacroed him every game by 2-3 expos and still couldn't do anything. | ||
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BeyondCtrL
Sweden642 Posts
On May 15 2010 12:24 condoriano wrote: Watch qxc vs machine, why slush? Machine outmacroed him every game by 2-3 expos and still couldn't do anything. Out macroing doesn't just mean having more expansions. Anyway, can you give a link for the qxc vs. Machine replay? Couldn't find it on sc2win. | ||
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