EPTKorean Zerg - What's the difference - Page 4
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ManiacTheZealot
United States490 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On May 04 2010 01:31 Jibba wrote: Did you see the Tester games or what he said in the latest video? He won almost purely on early harassment, without even making it to the macro phase. To me, that indicates superior mechanics and multitasking more than strategy or anything else. No, I didn't see this. Who did he play against? If a single person wins through early game harassment it says nothing about the skill level of a whole server. | ||
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
On May 03 2010 20:39 zealing wrote: pfff korean zergs are nothing compared to some foreigners we got. the great thing about SC2 is the fact that everyone started off at the same time, korea in BW was ahead by like 2-3 years or something but now its all even so koreans are just as good, better and worse then some foreigners. nony, naz, tlo are all people that can play the race zerg and beat people of "korean zerg level" caliber with like np. they may have a different style then us but that dont mean there better. Absolutely clueless post, needs no answer. You are not allowing yourself to think that bw skill and mechanics transition onto sc2. On May 04 2010 01:47 ManiacTheZealot wrote: If they start winning all the tournaments then I think you have some proof but until that its just pure speculation. I'm sure if the pro-gaming community in Korea discards SC1 for SC2 then they will quickly leave everyone in the dust. Nobody can compete with the type of money they can put into it. Arguably there will be more money in this for foreigners, so this is not a point. Even on sc1 you had a better shot at making money being a foreigner rather than korean. It actually proves that money isn't the case AT ALL. | ||
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Leoj
United States396 Posts
On May 04 2010 01:53 condoriano wrote: Absolutely clueless post, needs no answer. You are not allowing yourself to think that bw skill and mechanics transition onto sc2. Arguably there will be more money in this for foreigners, so this is not a point. Even on sc1 you had a better shot at making money being a foreigner rather than korean. It actually proves that money isn't the case AT ALL. Yes but you're thinking about making money as in being rich and famous as opposed to not having to work another job and being able to play SC all day. Korean pros are paid to play SC, they (basically) don't have to worry about other expenses as that's taken care of by their team/sponsor. I doubt anyone living in the West could live as an actual SC pro. Unless there's a ton of money or ultra-sponsored teams, it's just considerably more expensive living here, sponsors aren't as willing/serious (yet), and tournaments aren't giving the kind of publicity/cash sponsors want. | ||
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oolon
United States27 Posts
Just reflecting on how sad it is SC2 can't be one game instead of three. p.s. I know Artosis and Idra spend a lot of time in Korea, and Idra even played for a while in the Kespa events, but I wouldn't classify them as "Korean zergs" or Korean anything when it comes to our SC universe. | ||
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nira
United States116 Posts
On May 03 2010 15:43 IaniAniaN wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if it was down to quite a few people winning games based more on great mechanics than anything else (such as a particular strategy). On May 03 2010 16:10 omninmo wrote: mechanics: if played well zerg has the best "macro mechanics" in the queen larvae vomit. On May 03 2010 16:27 teamsolid wrote: Example of Korean Zergs --> watch Idra or Artosis play Z. Very solid macro oriented play (Machine also plays similar style, though he is US), usually based on outproducing their opponent rather than cheesing, etc. On May 03 2010 17:01 Terrakin wrote: but it really is just superior macro mechanics at this point, the top korean players are all ex-pro(and practice like pros still!) so their macro is already enough to defeat you with the crazy macro fest that is zerg. On May 03 2010 17:41 kickinhead wrote: It's all about mechanics and macro. On May 03 2010 17:45 cartoon]x wrote: Probably koreans are trying to play zerg in a macro game with toss and terran, and getting massively outdroned. You have to apply pressure to zerg ... They are plenty beatable - we've seen it happen in replays. On May 03 2010 20:02 Azro wrote: in my opinion the asian server Z player are more solid = playing the macro game. while the asian T/P player may try the same and cant keep up. All off the first page, it's surprisingly enough: MACRO. | ||
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:00 LUE.Leoj wrote: Yes but you're thinking about making money as in being rich and famous as opposed to not having to work another job and being able to play SC all day. Korean pros are paid to play SC, they (basically) don't have to worry about other expenses as that's taken care of by their team/sponsor. I doubt anyone living in the West could live as an actual SC pro. Unless there's a ton of money or ultra-sponsored teams, it's just considerably more expensive living here, sponsors aren't as willing/serious (yet), and tournaments aren't giving the kind of publicity/cash sponsors want. Rich and famous? I'm not sure what you mean. Progamers are at their prime relatively early, every school kid that was wasting his life on WoW could be playing sc2. I don't see how there's a huge difference resourcewise. There aren't any progamer houses for sc2 yet still there's already a difference in skill. There were no progamer houses for all the people that hopelessly played sc1 in korea trying to win courage, they are just regular kids with same kind of time at their hands as everybody else has at their age (they probably had to do better at school too rofl) | ||
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GrunZ
Germany34 Posts
On May 03 2010 18:16 likeaboss wrote: I personally dont know that much about the difference but I have heard from some fairly reliable sources that zerg is just so strong over on the asia server. I also have really enjoyed watching some korean replays from a pretty major website called ygosu.com. Their sc2 replay section isn't bad and its all koreans so you can see exactly how they play sry to bother you but how can you open the replay files? do you need a special tool or smth? | ||
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chung
Korea (South)43 Posts
I can absolutely guarantee the level of play in Korea is much, much higher in general. I am comfortably rank 1 in North America. In Korea, I struggle to make maybe top 20. In North America, I win half my games just scouting and then defending against cheese. In Korea, 9 out of 10 games are standard play, something I'm not used to. | ||
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Leoj
United States396 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:09 condoriano wrote: Rich and famous? I'm not sure what you mean. Progamers are at their prime relatively early, every school kid that was wasting his life on WoW could be playing sc2. I don't see how there's a huge difference resourcewise. There aren't any progamer houses for sc2 yet still there's already a difference in skill. There were no progamer houses for all the people that hopelessly played sc1 in korea trying to win courage, they are just regular kids with same kind of time at their hands as everybody else has at their age (they probably had to do better at school too rofl) Check out this study from 2000 - http://www.uis.unesco.org/ev.php?ID=5378_201&ID2=DO_TOPIC Korean children are taught, on average, half as long as children in the US are. In primary school there's "only" a 300 hour difference between them, but in secondary that gap shoots up to 600 hours. | ||
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:18 LUE.Leoj wrote: Check out this study from 2000 - http://www.uis.unesco.org/ev.php?ID=5378_201&ID2=DO_TOPIC Korean children are taught, on average, half as long as children in the US are. In primary school there's "only" a 300 hour difference between them, but in secondary that gap shoots up to 600 hours. I would like a korean to disprove this, someone says koreans got less schoolwork to do than westerners LOL. Okay, lets imagine this was true, are you really making an argument that koreans have so much more spare time because of their school system that it adds up to the superior amounts of practice times allowing them to top every other competition? Come on.. First of all, this simply isn't true, second, people like Dimaga, Brat_OK and White Ra basically have been playing bw for a living. They get their pay. They play as much as they want to. | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:18 LUE.Leoj wrote: Check out this study from 2000 - http://www.uis.unesco.org/ev.php?ID=5378_201&ID2=DO_TOPIC Korean children are taught, on average, half as long as children in the US are. In primary school there's "only" a 300 hour difference between them, but in secondary that gap shoots up to 600 hours. Did that study take into account the fact most of our US. school systems are millions in debt and perform very poorly because of this? | ||
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Klamity
United States994 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:18 LUE.Leoj wrote: Check out this study from 2000 - http://www.uis.unesco.org/ev.php?ID=5378_201&ID2=DO_TOPIC Korean children are taught, on average, half as long as children in the US are. In primary school there's "only" a 300 hour difference between them, but in secondary that gap shoots up to 600 hours. The American education system is inefficient. While it's too harsh to call it terrible, I have trouble thinking of another word that adequately describes it. Unless you actually think it takes 6 years (K-5) to learn basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division - especially at an age where children are most capable. But that's aside from the point. I also have to point to Zerg macro as the reasoning behind this. | ||
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chung
Korea (South)43 Posts
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
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Leoj
United States396 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:27 condoriano wrote: I would like a korean to disprove this, someone says koreans got less schoolwork to do than westerners LOL. Okay, lets imagine this was true, are you really making an argument that koreans have so much more spare time because of their school system that it adds up to the superior amounts of practice times allowing them to top every other competition? Come on.. First of all, this simply isn't true, second, people like Dimaga, Brat_OK and White Ra basically have been playing bw for a living. They get their pay. They play as much as they want to. Not to derail this topic further but Dimaga and WhiteRa live in Ukraine, whereas Brat_OK lives in Russia. Compare the cost of living indexes (you can even get nice little definitions on that same page) with the US here - http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp My basic argument is that Koreans (and I guess Eastern Europeans in this case) perform better at Zerg (and really at games in general) because, compared to traditional western countries, it is both cheaper to live there and less obligations are imposed upon them. Either way it's not surprising if "Korean" zerg is more advanced since it's essentially an open beta over there. Yeah we've had Gamestop and whatever but every lan center over there has free beta access...and there are a ton of lan centers. | ||
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Edlina
Denmark28 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 04 2010 01:53 condoriano wrote: Absolutely clueless post, needs no answer. You are not allowing yourself to think that bw skill and mechanics transition onto sc2. Arguably there will be more money in this for foreigners, so this is not a point. Even on sc1 you had a better shot at making money being a foreigner rather than korean. It actually proves that money isn't the case AT ALL. More money for foreigners when foreigners largely do not get paid a SALARY to play the game? Korean pros don't earn money from just tourneys (though tourney winnings are huge in Korea). They are paid a salary to play the game. It's like a full career. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
The problem with this statement is that even though the queen can shoot air, cheesy air rush strategies give zerg issues because a queen can't take on any air unit (aside from phoenix/viking) 1v1. Aside from the queen, z have no T1 unit that can deal with any air unlike other races. Overseers also cost the same as an observer and are prereq'd by lair. Costs aren't that far off. That said, I do agree with the rest of the points. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:18 chung wrote: Koreans go for macro oriented play. Zerg has a distinct advantage late game right now. In TvZ, one barrack double command is considered standard play, whereas many Americans prefer three barrack push or medivac timing push. In SC1, you get several different timings depending on which build you follow that fast expand up with. In SC2, one barrack double command is more likely to take you straight to late game. Same, but to a lesser extent, with PvZ. Many Korean Protoss users go one gate robo, then take natural expansion. Well if this is true, I guess there we have the reason for zerg dominance on the Asia servers: Zergs can get into midgame without facing a lot of pressure. That alone grants zerg a decent advantage. Even if the pressure doesn't go that well, forcing the zerg to make combat units is essential. If the first attack comes after the zerg expansion has kicked in it is a lost game. | ||
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