EPTAlso, it seems that there are too few EU zergs just defending solid and then expand everywhere. I really don't see a good answer on Defense+Infestor+Mass expo, I really feel kinda chanceless against this sometimes as a Terran player.
Korean Zerg - What's the difference - Page 6
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teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
Also, it seems that there are too few EU zergs just defending solid and then expand everywhere. I really don't see a good answer on Defense+Infestor+Mass expo, I really feel kinda chanceless against this sometimes as a Terran player. | ||
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Powda
United States116 Posts
As AMAZING as most of their micro is, it is pretty evident they don't have a good grasp of the game yet with any of the races. Zerg is obviously dominant over there because it is so closely related to zerg from broodwar. Watching their terran and protoss players was like watching TL replays from 2 months ago. All the Micro in the world won't help you in a game you are still new to. | ||
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johnlee
United States242 Posts
On May 03 2010 22:08 spinesheath wrote: You overestimate Koreans. A lot. If eSports outside Korea stays as small as it currently is then yes, Koreans will dominate. This probably won't be the case though. I don't think Koreans are overrated in terms of skills in RTS games like SC or SC2. It's completely a societal issue. For example, take the NBA. African Americans are clearly more "talented" in Basketball and dominate the pro-scene there. Who in their right minds would argue, "If the basketball playing Asians in Asia came to play basketball in the US, Blacks wouldn't dominate the sport." No one. The US, especially in the black community, places a stronger emphasis on athletic finesse. The same concept applies here. Korea places more emphasis on eSports in general and thus are more "talented" in RTS games. If all countries had an equal amount of interest in eSports, then of course it wouldn't matter what ethnic background the individual is. However, the fact is that Korea places a bigger emphasis on eSports and thus has better players. | ||
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Weasel-
Canada1556 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On May 04 2010 02:40 LUE.Leoj wrote: Not to derail this topic further but Dimaga and WhiteRa live in Ukraine, whereas Brat_OK lives in Russia. Compare the cost of living indexes (you can even get nice little definitions on that same page) with the US here - http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp My basic argument is that Koreans (and I guess Eastern Europeans in this case) perform better at Zerg (and really at games in general) because, compared to traditional western countries, it is both cheaper to live there and less obligations are imposed upon them. Either way it's not surprising if "Korean" zerg is more advanced since it's essentially an open beta over there. Yeah we've had Gamestop and whatever but every lan center over there has free beta access...and there are a ton of lan centers. They do also earn quite a bit less so that evens it out. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 04 2010 05:36 condoriano wrote: There was no RoX or bw mYm 8 years ago, don't be ridiculous. And no team payed foreigners back then, not the salaries. The only reason players like f91 joined mYm was money, same with many foreigners leaving one team joining another. You can't "argue" with this, it's a fact. Speculating that they might have been paid is not enough. *When* were they paid? How *much* were they paid? I can cite Korean salary numbers from well-established sources. What can you do for foreigners? By the way, foreigners who have been in Korea - such as Nony and Artosis - have went on record saying how much of a difference there was between the two pro-scenes in terms of salary numbers, career opportunities, etc. It simply isn't comparable. You can make 50-100 dollars from weekly tournaments that were and probably still are held on bw, add wcg, add dreamhack and TSL etc. It is irrelevant how much money top progamers make, they are 50-60 out of hundreds of thousands of koreans that tried to get picked up by a proteam. You can't even compare the level of competition in korea and outside of it, it doesn't make any sense. Thus, JUST LIKE I SAID, the chances that you will make money playing bw as a foreigner are infinitely higher than if you were a korean. Low tier pros and B-teamers barely make anything, they wouldn't be able to live off that even in korea. Their only choice is a proteam house where they eat, sleep and practice. But if you live with your parents and not doing anything you might as well not complain about paying the bills. Plus you have a choice here in the US, you can take a year or 10 off and not go to college immediately, meanwhile koreans have to do it. Frankly, that's ridiculous, and anyone who's tried to become a SC pro-gamer in the US can attest. SC tourneys do not provide a stable source of income. In fact, tourneys in general do not provide a stable source of income, because there is no guarantee that you will win anything, and a lot of it comes down to luck. By contrast, Korean pro-gamers are paid salaries, which are contractual agreements that they can depend on for their livelihood once they make it as a pro-gamer. Moreover, all their living expenses are paid by KESPA, so they'll never go hungry, homeless, etc., even while they're on the crap team. Saying that foreigners, in general, have a better chance at playing SC for money runs contrary to the experience of top foreigners who have examined the two scenes. Yes, it is *possible* to make more money as a foreigner playing SC, but this money is not consistent and therefore not conducive to a career in pro-gaming. By contrast, Korean pro-gamers have consistent incomes and therefore financial security. The odd foreigner who actually "makes it" as a pro-gamer (ie Idra) stays in Korea. The rest have to choose between other careers and their devotion to the game. Stating that the competition is fiercer in Korea is actually contrary to the point of your post. The competition is fiercer because the career is more lucrative. Pro-gaming in SC was not seen as a legitimate career choice by non-Koreans, so it is natural that the competition was weaker. You can only compete when there's something to compete over. | ||
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dumptruck
Germany2 Posts
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
On May 04 2010 05:51 Tanatos wrote: I got some interesting writing from Korean SC2 community PlayXP Title Why US's Z is the weakest and Asia's T is the weakest? 1. Asian T is bad 2. Asia's Z and P is better than T 3. US's T is good 4. US's Z and P is worse than T Probably it is 1... 제목 왜 도대체 북미는 저그가 젤약하고 왜 도대체 아시아서버는 테란이 젤약할까 1아시아서버의 테란들이 못하는걸까요 아니면 2아시아서버의 저그,토스들이 잘하는 걸까요 아니면 3북미서버의 테란들이 잘하는걸까요 아니면 4북미서버의 저그,토스들이 못하는걸까요 1번이 문제이려나.. ...What do u think? I would appreciate a link very much  | ||
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roark
United States187 Posts
But set Nationality aside. The group of players that invests the most time and EFFORT to learn the game, or any endeavor. Will be the group of players that does the best, and is considered the best. There is no gene that makes you good at video games. Sure you can have nice reflexes, etc. like anything else. But people put WAYYY to much emphasis on "talent" instead of effort. | ||
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Tanatos
United States381 Posts
http://www.playxp.com/sc2/bbs/view.php?article_id=1950182&page=2 It was really personal idea and has no deeper meaning though. | ||
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Destro
Netherlands1206 Posts
"yea macro mechanics duhduhduhhhh!" to talking about the korean education system. I think people are just grasping at this point. ... keep in mind, there ARE bad korean players... just because they keke doesn't mean they don't geegee. Im always wondering, could i beat flash's mom? | ||
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johnlee
United States242 Posts
On May 04 2010 06:16 StarStruck wrote: I think the word you are looking for is culture John. It's more socially accepted in Korea. Then again, you'll see interviews done with the pro's saying they got support from their parents, but that doesn't necessarily mean they climbed on board right away. Lots of these guys didn't even finish High School and their parents have every right to be worried about their well-being. Good Western analogy would be to tell your parents you want to go into the Arts. Some would probably say, "Why would you want to do that? How are you going to put bread and butter on the table?" etc. Yeah. I guess "Korea places more emphasis on eSports" is a bit misleading. You're right; more culturally accepted is much better. "Exposure" could possibly work also. | ||
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
On May 03 2010 21:01 zealing wrote: i didn't say that did i? no i said that koreans were more into SC then we were when it first came out, they had pro leagues/courage and becoming a pro gamer was not uncommon. while in NA if you say i wanna be a pro gamer 99% of the time your going to get smacked upside the head :S Uh, not sure how old you were at the time, but Starcraft was massive in America/Europe near release. Koreans are wayyyy more into SC since maybe WC3 came out. That's it. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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SturmAddict
Malaysia176 Posts
B-teamers in korea can buy 10,000 kg of rice with their salary, and im pretty sure the players like JD or flash are able to buy 20,000-40,000 In other country? i bet they cant even reach 2500-3000kg of rice with their annual salary. There is no reason to compare dollar for dollar by international exchange rate. all that matters is purchasing power, and how much rice you can eat per year. Btw. i eat 34kg of rice per year  | ||
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
On May 04 2010 06:18 Azarkon wrote: Speculating that they might have been paid is not enough. *When* were they paid? How *much* were they paid? I can cite Korean salary numbers from well-established sources. What can you do for foreigners? You are the one speculating, first you said they were paid 8 years ago, now you are asking me to prove that players get paid. Basically you are pulling things out of your ass. No, they switched teams because of a nicer tag or an extra mousepad. Do you even believe yourself? By the way, foreigners who have been in Korea - such as Nony and Artosis - have went on record saying how much of a difference there was between the two pro-scenes in terms of salary numbers, career opportunities, etc. It simply isn't comparable. You pulled out another one. Where did nony or artosis said that? Artosis says if you aren't going to dedicate yourself solely to gaming you wont even have a chance at coming close to winning courage. Even if you make it onto a proteam you won't be saving money. All you get is a place to live and food and an environment to practice. To make cash and have "career opportunities" you have to be one of the very top players, there are plenty of threads about that on TL. Low tier pro's make less money than top foreigners, why do I have to repeat 3 times? This is actually something that Artosis mentioned before. Do you not understand? You are just repeating same ridiculous nonsense about career and opportunity, which has no connection with reality. Chinese players did not want to play in Korea BECAUSE THEY MAKE MORE IN CHINA. And they don't have to follow a strict regimen. Stating that the competition is fiercer in Korea is actually contrary to the point of your post. The competition is fiercer because the career is more lucrative. Pro-gaming in SC was not seen as a legitimate career choice by non-Koreans, so it is natural that the competition was weaker. You can only compete when there's something to compete over. That's only contrary in your imagination, I said specifically given the level of competition in Korea it's nearly impossible to make money off playing bw compared to foreign tournaments where someone like Ace or Dimaga can get sponsored on a regular basis playing for a team and win a few tournaments here and there being a relative newcomer to the scene. If you are going to repeat the nonsense again I simply won't answer. | ||
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condoriano
United States826 Posts
#23 [Sweden] eX-v1o)MorroW 4 i think the problem is that we have too few top players. ofcourse the teams with most money r gonna get the best players, but if there were more players i dont think they could afford to take everybody in. i still think no team is "undefeatable" for now, and besides it doesnt matter alot since sc2 is comming so soon now ^^ Money. MONEY. And this was relatively recent, nearing the death of bw. | ||
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Ganondorf
Italy600 Posts
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
What I would be fine with is if people were saying the extremsts of Korea are more extreme than elsewhere in regards to gaming. It is in no way an "everybody knows what SC is" country, like some people seem to believe. And, to try and make this post seem as little derailed as possible: Therefore, the reason Korean Zergs are better than US/EU Zergs is most definitely not because Korea accepts gaming much better than the aforementioned countries. It's because they're nuts who are good at the game  Nothing to do with nationality. | ||
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