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Canada8033 Posts
On April 18 2010 18:51 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 18:36 Random69 wrote:
Look no matter what anyone says or does
Maphacking will never stop and can never be stopped
Think about it in a realistic manner, banks which have the top security people in the world working for them 24/7/365 and they cant even stop hackers from accessing bank security, so what are the odds of a gaming company having even the slightest chance of that.
Banks spend million upon millions to improve their security and still they can not stop hacking, so Blizzard has 0 (ZERO) chance of stopping hackers
This is the reason i stopped playing WC3 and then WOW, well I stopped playing wow because Blizzard done seem to care about goldsellers etc, i mean these guys were advertising 24/7 their gold sales but blizzard do nothing.
I am actually glad for this article bringing forward the maphack issue, but since it is already happening in the beta, i can say this next line with confidence.
SC2 is FUCKED, there will be soooooo many maphack players it will ruin the game
I forgot to add Diablo, people duped runes and item etc and blizzard could not fix it.
SIGH
GG The big difference between hacking banks and hacking SC2: Money. Sure you can win online tourneys with maphacks and earn prize money, but there is much more money to be made from hacking banks. You can't hack in offline tourneys at all, and the really big tourneys will most likely be offline. So hackers invest much more time and resources into hacking banks compared to SC2. If they manage to hack SC2 once, it can be fixed fairly quickly and the money the hackers made through that will be quite limited. If a bank is hacked a LOT of money can be made in a very short time frame (especially through acquiring and selling customer data). SC2 is much less threatened by hackers than banks, and reactionary measures (banning etc) are way more effective than they would be for banks. SC2 is definitely not "fucked".
Uh, I'm pretty sure people who create maphacks aren't in it for monetary gain. More often than not, it's because winning is that important to them, or they just get off on ruining other people's gaming experiences.
The argument that people make hacks for money doesn't really make sense in general. For instance, what's the rationale behind making an aimbot for an FPS game? You can't use it in tournaments since it's extremely obvious when you use it, so there's effectively no way to make money off of such a program. And yet, people have made aimbots for virtually every FPS game out there. It's pretty clear that financial gain is the least of their concerns.
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Come on. the value of sc2 beta key is close to gold on the stock market, unworthy people shouldn't be able to defile on of those.
You did a great job OP, blizzard is used to deal with hackers but they are kind of busy right now so its always a good thing to warn them. Plus some devs could be pissed that their game is hacked even before its release.
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On April 18 2010 21:36 Spazer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 18:51 spinesheath wrote:On April 18 2010 18:36 Random69 wrote:
Look no matter what anyone says or does
Maphacking will never stop and can never be stopped
Think about it in a realistic manner, banks which have the top security people in the world working for them 24/7/365 and they cant even stop hackers from accessing bank security, so what are the odds of a gaming company having even the slightest chance of that.
Banks spend million upon millions to improve their security and still they can not stop hacking, so Blizzard has 0 (ZERO) chance of stopping hackers
This is the reason i stopped playing WC3 and then WOW, well I stopped playing wow because Blizzard done seem to care about goldsellers etc, i mean these guys were advertising 24/7 their gold sales but blizzard do nothing.
I am actually glad for this article bringing forward the maphack issue, but since it is already happening in the beta, i can say this next line with confidence.
SC2 is FUCKED, there will be soooooo many maphack players it will ruin the game
I forgot to add Diablo, people duped runes and item etc and blizzard could not fix it.
SIGH
GG The big difference between hacking banks and hacking SC2: Money. Sure you can win online tourneys with maphacks and earn prize money, but there is much more money to be made from hacking banks. You can't hack in offline tourneys at all, and the really big tourneys will most likely be offline. So hackers invest much more time and resources into hacking banks compared to SC2. If they manage to hack SC2 once, it can be fixed fairly quickly and the money the hackers made through that will be quite limited. If a bank is hacked a LOT of money can be made in a very short time frame (especially through acquiring and selling customer data). SC2 is much less threatened by hackers than banks, and reactionary measures (banning etc) are way more effective than they would be for banks. SC2 is definitely not "fucked". Uh, I'm pretty sure people who create maphacks aren't in it for monetary gain. More often than not, it's because winning is that important to them, or they just get off on ruining other people's gaming experiences. The argument that people make hacks for money doesn't really make sense in general. For instance, what's the rationale behind making an aimbot for an FPS game? You can't use it in tournaments since it's extremely obvious when you use it, so there's effectively no way to make money off of such a program. And yet, people have made aimbots for virtually every FPS game out there. It's pretty clear that financial gain is the least of their concerns.
Ye this is kinda my point.
They dont hack for money, they hack because they can.
and because they can they ruin the game for others.
It quite simple, some people are just not able to cope with losing so they take every precaution not to lose, hence map hacks.
Humans are just a failed concept, the individual dream and idea is perfect in its design, but that is just where the problem lies, individual idea, needs, greeds, so as a whole we fail, because we need to use exploited means to gain a step ahead.
lol
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I just hope Blizzard will do something about it in the release version. If there's too many hackers, the whole ladder becomes a joke. I don't want it to become a joke, and hopefully Blizzard has a solution.
Banning C-key accounts is definately a good deterent, but they need to crack down on hackers, chop a few head.
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I always figured this boiled down to:
a) don't play with assholes, and
b) don't take online games seriously.
Short of a radical redesign of the networking model, it's impossible to stop or reliably detect cheating. You can only catch clumsy and crude methods.
To make an extreme example, you could run the game in a virtual machine and have a program outside of the VM examine the contents of the VM's memory. Everything inside the virtual machine thinks that the VM is a complete physical computer, and can't see anything going on outside of it. A program outside of the VM can look into the VM and examine anything going on inside.
As with anti-piracy measures, anti-cheating measures just challenge hackers, and make the problem more interesting and fun to crack. There is a theoretical bedrock where you can't touch them, and if you push them hard enough, they'll go there.
You can build an RTS to make maphacking impossible. What you'd need in any two-player game is a third "referee" computer that runs the actual game simulation, and only sends the player machines the information that their player is supposed to be allowed to see. There are serious technical challenges involved, and the game has to be designed from the ground up to support this.
Starcraft 2 is not built that way, therefore maphacks.
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I would care to a lesser extent about this whole thing if I could choose who am I playing with. Without an AMM system, you could just avoid people you don't trust and still find more than enough challenging opponents.
But when there's an AMM system in play, and I get matched up vs assholes like this I simply can't help but rage and demand a solution asap.
Because, hell, I have goals. I want to rank up, I want to make myself known internationally and enjoy the moment while that lasts. But if I hadn't known this guy was a hacker beforehand, I would've just lost the game and got further away from my goal - not fair.
I know there always will be hackers. They're free to infest public games as they like, while the competitive scene plays where everyone is monitored to a sufficient extent (yes, this is a direct Bnet Pub - ICCup comparison). I would consider the top of the platinum ladder a competitive place (I would consider a lot other places competitive as well, you get my point hopefully  ). I want the top few percentage of the ladder to be monitored constantly, and the abusers removed. Right now - because they hurt those who want to put their names out there to get recognized, and that's not just about beta testing, it's about a lot more. So yes, Blizzard indeed does owe me something here in my opinion.
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On April 18 2010 22:01 Random69 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 21:36 Spazer wrote:On April 18 2010 18:51 spinesheath wrote:On April 18 2010 18:36 Random69 wrote:
Look no matter what anyone says or does
Maphacking will never stop and can never be stopped
Think about it in a realistic manner, banks which have the top security people in the world working for them 24/7/365 and they cant even stop hackers from accessing bank security, so what are the odds of a gaming company having even the slightest chance of that.
Banks spend million upon millions to improve their security and still they can not stop hacking, so Blizzard has 0 (ZERO) chance of stopping hackers
This is the reason i stopped playing WC3 and then WOW, well I stopped playing wow because Blizzard done seem to care about goldsellers etc, i mean these guys were advertising 24/7 their gold sales but blizzard do nothing.
I am actually glad for this article bringing forward the maphack issue, but since it is already happening in the beta, i can say this next line with confidence.
SC2 is FUCKED, there will be soooooo many maphack players it will ruin the game
I forgot to add Diablo, people duped runes and item etc and blizzard could not fix it.
SIGH
GG The big difference between hacking banks and hacking SC2: Money. Sure you can win online tourneys with maphacks and earn prize money, but there is much more money to be made from hacking banks. You can't hack in offline tourneys at all, and the really big tourneys will most likely be offline. So hackers invest much more time and resources into hacking banks compared to SC2. If they manage to hack SC2 once, it can be fixed fairly quickly and the money the hackers made through that will be quite limited. If a bank is hacked a LOT of money can be made in a very short time frame (especially through acquiring and selling customer data). SC2 is much less threatened by hackers than banks, and reactionary measures (banning etc) are way more effective than they would be for banks. SC2 is definitely not "fucked". Uh, I'm pretty sure people who create maphacks aren't in it for monetary gain. More often than not, it's because winning is that important to them, or they just get off on ruining other people's gaming experiences. The argument that people make hacks for money doesn't really make sense in general. For instance, what's the rationale behind making an aimbot for an FPS game? You can't use it in tournaments since it's extremely obvious when you use it, so there's effectively no way to make money off of such a program. And yet, people have made aimbots for virtually every FPS game out there. It's pretty clear that financial gain is the least of their concerns. Ye this is kinda my point. They dont hack for money, they hack because they can. and because they can they ruin the game for others. It quite simple, some people are just not able to cope with losing so they take every precaution not to lose, hence map hacks. Humans are just a failed concept, the individual dream and idea is perfect in its design, but that is just where the problem lies, individual idea, needs, greeds, so as a whole we fail, because we need to use exploited means to gain a step ahead. lol
People are attacking banks because they try to make money. They aren't hacking SC2 for money. At least most of them. And because they don't do it for the money, they put much less effort into it. So SC2 is threatened way less than banks.
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Oh and where should I have posted this in order to get some Blue reading it / perhaps some feedback? After reading through the responses it seems I posted it on the wrong subforum? (yeah I'm frankly that clueless about Blizzard forums, why would I be posting there)
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On April 18 2010 23:49 Naib wrote:
Oh and where should I have posted this in order to get some Blue reading it / perhaps some feedback? After reading through the responses it seems I posted it on the wrong subforum? (yeah I'm frankly that clueless about Blizzard forums, why would I be posting there)
http://forums.battle.net/board.html?forumId=25352531&sid=5010
either there in the general forum or in the technical support forum I'd say
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Well then I'm gonna copy / paste it there and apologize for reposting it. I really want explanations.
Updating the OP when I'm done with that.
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good good, I'm gonna post in that thread as soon as you're done
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People who say that hackers of games like SC/Diablo/etc are not in it for monetary gain are wrong, there are a lot of people who create game hacks to sell them. And people do buy them. I don't think it's possible for any company to have a hack-proof game regardless of how much time they spend trying to secure it, hackers will always find new vulnerabilities. The best they can do is identify the most used hacks and make them unsecure.
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Well, it is understandable if blizzard want to keep some hacker on the beta. They might get some infomation on vulnerability of the game from these hackers. or may be i am too optimistic.
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On April 19 2010 00:21 pedduck wrote:
Well, it is understandable if blizzard want to keep some hacker on the beta. They might get some infomation on vulnerability of the game from these hackers. or may be i am too optimistic.
I don't think it's possible for Blizzard to get much info on specific vulnerabilities from maphacks unless the hackers have released the source-code, or Blizzard is attempting to reverse engineer them.
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On April 19 2010 00:21 pedduck wrote:
Well, it is understandable if blizzard want to keep some hacker on the beta. They might get some infomation on vulnerability of the game from these hackers. or may be i am too optimistic.
If that explanation is true, then the very least they should be doing is preventing this from harming real players. For example, the hacker would get points (so that he doesn't notice and could still be monitored), but the legit player losing won't lose any (it would still waste his time, and would be annoying, so it's less than optimal but it would at least be a gesture towards legit players).
If what you suggest is true then Blizzard is extremely tunnel-viewed and / or selfish. I really hope it isn't like that, it's just that they didn't address this issue yet. Hence me brining the topic up.
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Hyrule19200 Posts
On April 18 2010 07:24 Kralic wrote:
Blizzard does do a lot but most of the "high level" players that use these are using very exclusive hacks that only a select few know the code for. Most of the stuff Blizzard bans is unknown newbies using public hacks. They can't keep up with the amount there are which is sad, but they still do ban a lot of folks as well.
I have noticed a few that I have reported to their email have had their profiles disappear, wasn't instant but a few weeks later.
Warden actually works almost the same way as ICCup's AH. The number or variety of hack doesn't matter.
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For instance, what's the rationale behind making an aimbot for an FPS game?
For obvious reasons I will not mention any names here, but I can give you a very specific example:
1. Guy decides to make a cheat, an aimbot for counter-strike.
2. Guy teams up with similar minded people
3. Team develops a hack that soon becomes very popular
4. Authors of counter strike responds with patches
5. Team realizes this could be long-term deal, playing mouse and cat with the authors if you will.
6. Introduce monthly fee for continious updates for this cheat/aimbot.
7. There should probably be a "???" here.
8. Profit.
Edit: This example happend a few years back, but i fail to see why it would not be relevant to today.
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EPT
