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Most of you might remember that closed thread (posted by MoMaN) about Blink.blink and his blatant maphack.
Well, I just met him today and despite that one might have hoped (that he quickly and swiftly got dealt with), he's still maphacking. Luckily I expected just as much and still raped him, but the whole ordeal sent me into nerd rage mode only comparable to -orb- so I made myself register on the Bnet board and post a long-winded OP about how Blizzard should crack down on hackers. After a quick PM exchange with Plexa, I decided to repost aforementioned topic here to ask for your support.
We need our voices to be heard. I don't want to wait on Warden going live (or if it's working now, it's doing a damn shameful job), I want support staff that deals with complaints quick and swift, just like in WoW (but perhaps a bit more competent ). I don't want hackers run amok the beta, owning betakeys that should go to deserving fans, like the very ones TL has.
Thanks for taking your time with this, here's my post:
First off, hello everyone! This is my first post here (I just made this account 'cause usually I browse this forum only, didn't feel the need to post / participate in the discussion yet), but please bear with me. The topic at hand made me want to raise my voice. It's a widespread fact that you can already (and easily) find working maphacks for SC2, however, I didn't encounter any really obvious instances of maphacking so far (maybe because I'm at the top x % of the EU server, and people here usually are legit, they wouldn't want to tarninsh their reputation with using an imperfect hack, as they're notable players from SC1 / WC3 / other RTS' , you name it), but today I did. (link to the replay at the end of my post) Yes, the hack is imperfect. If you re-watch the replay from the hacker's POV, you'll see him checking things out in the fog of war all the time (SC1 had a much more sophisticated kind of MH, where it erased actions like this from the replay manually, so that it was a lot harder to detect. Or so I believe, I'm not an expert in this regard as I've never used a MH ). The question: what is Blizzard doing atm to stop this? Do you guys even have time (I know you have various tasks on your hands) to try and combat this at all? The reason I'm asking this is when I've met this certain opponent on the ladder, I already knew he was maphacking (due to another high-level EU player posting a topic on teamliquid.net asking for guidance about how to report the aforementioned offender). Much to my dismay, he was still BLATANTLY (and I really mean that!) using a maphack, not even trying to hide what he's doing...I only won 'cause I expected what he would be doing and countered it blindly (I failed to scout his proxy even though I knew it should be around). I know it's a beta and all my stats are somewhat meaningless, but I want a hack-free competitive environment to play, compete, and test this game. Beta keys are still hard to come by, and undeserving people shouldn't have one. Ban them one by one if you must, and send out one to those die-hard fans who would enter any kind of silly competition just to test this game for You, Blizzard. Do not fail us, please show zero tolerance! (that's the only deterrent, we already know that from the history of SC1) Cutting my rambling short, a short description of the blatant hacking behavior: PvP, Lost Temple. Opponent sends one of his first 6 probes right towards my mainbase (which could be a coincidence of course) but he just builds a pylon outside my cliff without even going up my ramp to check if I'm really there(he didn't meet a scouting probe sent my be either). If you watch it in his FPView it's clear that he's checking out my base and what I'm doing right from the start. Chat including me teasing him (because as I stated, I already knew he's maphacking due to a thread on TL.net), hoping that I'm actually wrong. I'm not, watch it. Once again, I'm asking Blizzard to take immediate action. We can't have people like these on top of the platinum ladder, much less playing the Beta at all. Direct link to DL the replay (just copy/paste it into your browser): http://sc2.replays.hu/replay.php?dl=187
I left out the link due to a brainfart, here it is:
My BNet forum post
New topic made in the SC2beta forums
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Great job man, i am feeling you exactly. Do you have the link to the post so we can add replies and bump this up?
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Oh damnit, of all the important stuff I forgot just that
My BNet forum post
Here's the link, I'll edit it into the OP too in a second.
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SC/BW/WC3 were all riddled with map hacks, clearly proving that the 'three strike's policy that blizzard has employed for some time simply does not work. If people have three chances to hack before they get banned, then the cost of buying another key to keep hacking for three more chances isn't as much as a deterrent. But if 6 times getting caught hacking meant getting 6 cd-keys banned I'm sure we would see a large decrease in their use. People say 'what about younger players who don't understand what this does to the game'.
1. If you are under 15 you shouldn't be playing a T rated game to begin with.
2. A simple message that can come up alongside the 'pick your skill level' dialog we already receive stating 'Use of a map hack or any other 3rd party software used to give you an unfair advantage in play will result in an immediate ban'
3. Implement an appeal system where-by players who legitimately did not know that a hack was running on their computer, or was not intentionally using it can appeal to Blizzard to have their key reinstated.
Overall I have to say that a one-strike you banned policy is the only way to deter people from hacking.
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On April 18 2010 05:37 SichuanPanda wrote:
Overall I have to say that a one-strike you banned policy is the only way to deter people from hacking.
They already got that, it is just that instead of banning people as soon as they find them they develop better ways of detecting it till they can ban almost everyone using that hack at once. You basically have to do it that way to keep the hackers in the dark about what you do, by striking too early you let most of the fish get away.
Not to mention that this is a beta meaning that they have no reason at all to ban the guy, instead they can use him to finetune their programs.
Edit: And I know there are many rampant hacks currently within wc3, but it was relatively hack free in the ladder for a long time, only the past few months have been bad. Don't know what happened.
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Thanks for the effort towards cracking down on maphacks. If no one ever said anything, Blizzard wouldn't care. Keep up the good work.
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On April 18 2010 05:37 SichuanPanda wrote:
SC/BW/WC3 were all riddled with map hacks, clearly proving that the 'three strike's policy that blizzard has employed for some time simply does not work. If people have three chances to hack before they get banned, then the cost of buying another key to keep hacking for three more chances isn't as much as a deterrent. But if 6 times getting caught hacking meant getting 6 cd-keys banned I'm sure we would see a large decrease in their use. People say 'what about younger players who don't understand what this does to the game'.
1. If you are under 15 you shouldn't be playing a T rated game to begin with.
2. A simple message that can come up alongside the 'pick your skill level' dialog we already receive stating 'Use of a map hack or any other 3rd party software used to give you an unfair advantage in play will result in an immediate ban'
3. Implement an appeal system where-by players who legitimately did not know that a hack was running on their computer, or was not intentionally using it can appeal to Blizzard to have their key reinstated.
Overall I have to say that a one-strike you banned policy is the only way to deter people from hacking.
I agree with most of what you said except that if you are under 15, you should not play T rated games. I play games since I was like 4-5 and played pretty graphic games at a young age. Young gamers make up a huge part of the gaming industry!
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and why didn't you post this on the beta forums?
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I totally agree with you and "support" you, but don't kid yourself here. Doesn't matter if blizzard puts all their resources towards this.. there will always be a greasier nerd out there that can hack. Accept it or quit.
What is it, 12 years of bw now? Still maphackers. Good luck on the fight!
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On April 18 2010 06:56 virusak wrote:
and why didn't you post this on the beta forums?
He. Did. You...
*raaaage!*
Edit: I'm all for 0 tolerance, the only argument against it is false positives and basically if you don't use 3rd party software that wont happen.
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Blizz should definitely make it a 1 strike = ban rule and make a very clear warning explaining the consequences of hacking when people make their account.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 18 2010 07:00 Chunkybuddha wrote:
I totally agree with you and "support" you, but don't kid yourself here. Doesn't matter if blizzard puts all their resources towards this.. there will always be a greasier nerd out there that can hack. Accept it or quit.
What is it, 12 years of bw now? Still maphackers. Good luck on the fight!
Yea but we have facilities like iCCup's antihack which eliminate the vast proportion of hackers. If blizzard aren't willing to take charge with it they can hand it over to the community since we can handle it.
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On April 18 2010 07:10 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 07:00 Chunkybuddha wrote:
I totally agree with you and "support" you, but don't kid yourself here. Doesn't matter if blizzard puts all their resources towards this.. there will always be a greasier nerd out there that can hack. Accept it or quit.
What is it, 12 years of bw now? Still maphackers. Good luck on the fight! Yea but we have facilities like iCCup's antihack which eliminate the vast proportion of hackers. If blizzard aren't willing to take charge with it they can hand it over to the community since we can handle it.
Was that the case with iccup?? Or did blizzard contribute to that?
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Blizzard does do a lot but most of the "high level" players that use these are using very exclusive hacks that only a select few know the code for. Most of the stuff Blizzard bans is unknown newbies using public hacks. They can't keep up with the amount there are which is sad, but they still do ban a lot of folks as well.
I have noticed a few that I have reported to their email have had their profiles disappear, wasn't instant but a few weeks later.
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On April 18 2010 05:37 SichuanPanda wrote:
1. If you are under 15 you shouldn't be playing a T rated game to begin with.
If that were the case, we wouldn't be watching the day9 daily.
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On April 18 2010 17:48 mrkent wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 05:37 SichuanPanda wrote:
1. If you are under 15 you shouldn't be playing a T rated game to begin with.
If that were the case, we wouldn't be watching the day9 daily.
uh what?
day9 is in college. and even if he werent...wait i'm like fuckin confused.
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On April 18 2010 17:51 mOnion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 17:48 mrkent wrote:On April 18 2010 05:37 SichuanPanda wrote:
1. If you are under 15 you shouldn't be playing a T rated game to begin with.
If that were the case, we wouldn't be watching the day9 daily. uh what? day9 is in college. and even if he werent...wait i'm like fuckin confused.
he's referring to the fact that day9 started playing sc at a much younger age than 15, which I think he discussed in ep#100
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On April 18 2010 17:51 mOnion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 17:48 mrkent wrote:On April 18 2010 05:37 SichuanPanda wrote:
1. If you are under 15 you shouldn't be playing a T rated game to begin with.
If that were the case, we wouldn't be watching the day9 daily. uh what? day9 is in college. and even if he werent...wait i'm like fuckin confused.
He's probably thinking along the lines that Day[9] played SC when he was "too young" for it.
It doesn't really matter if kids are playing SC2, as long as Blizzard is stating that you shouldn't play this game under the age of X they are free to assume that everyone who plays it is at least X years old. So if a kid is maphacking his age won't be an excuse. The 1 strike rule doesn't need exceptions because kids are playing the game.
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On April 18 2010 17:48 mrkent wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 05:37 SichuanPanda wrote:
1. If you are under 15 you shouldn't be playing a T rated game to begin with.
If that were the case, we wouldn't be watching the day9 daily.
Been playing since I was like 7 o,o
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I really wish Blizzard would come out and say their thoughts on the issue of hacking. They've been oddly silent on the matter, which is kind of out of character for them. In WoW, they took very harsh stances on cheaters and their community managers made that very clear in posts.
To be honest, they are in a pretty good position of making SC2 a fair environment. The improved replay system makes catching hackers much easier and less disputable. What Blizz needs is a good reporting system.
It isn't a perfect system, but it's certainly an improvement over War3/BW ladder experiences (and possibly Diablo but I never played Diablo so I can't comment on that.)
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EPT
