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On March 26 2010 19:53 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2010 19:41 MeProU_Kor wrote:
@ people saying stalker got buffed: this is a joke! they just switched 2 attack points and removed +1 from upgrades = nerf! they are maybe better against less hp units (linge/marine) but still suck against every thing elae + at the moment u get +1 attack they are worse against armored units than they used to be before. Because clearly after patch 1, people never used Vikings again, amirite? Switching damage type to normal is a moderate buff. The Viking showed this in patch 1, where virtually the exact same damage change was made, but instead of change in upgrades, it was given an armor reduction. Subsequently it went from being almost never used to being seen commonly in 2 of the 3 matchups, and as a viable option in the 3rd. Show nested quote +On March 26 2010 19:41 MeProU_Kor wrote:
Im still missing a strong GtA unit for P (an no stalker got nerfed for this case, its only better against mutas + viking but suck even more against everythin with armor)! Aren't those the only two air units the Stalker has to fight most of the time in PvT and PvZ anyway?
Actually vikings weren't really buffed in that patch, it was more of a rework.
- They did get the nerf in upgrades in the same way stalkers did, it just wasn't in the patch notes. Before they were +1(+1 vs armored) and now they are +1(+0 vs armored).
- They got a slight nerf against armored targets, with no longer having upgrade vs armored and the base armor removal.
- The buff to base damage affected mainly mutas and phoenix, both of which were also heavily affected by the armor removal, so it wasn't a buff in direct combat against them either
- Vikings did become better at fending off muta harass, since they dealt higher damage to them, while they could sit inside turret/marine range and mutas would not return fire.
- People were simply still trying things out before the patch, and the patch got more attention to vikings more than it did to buff them.
BTW corruptors need a buff or a rework, since mutas are about as strong vs vikings as corruptors are and mutas are much more versatile.
Yes, toss needed something to counter light air, but IMO bonus to light for sentries(and more to armored for stalkers) would've been a better idea, giving more variety to the toss army and a counter to mass zeals, which they still lack(except if you make so much stalkers that the range advantage turns the balance of power around and air units of course, but they aren't a strong counter, except carriers, which are at the top of the tech tree).
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Patch 6 is by far my favourite patch(and I play Terran, so that's saying something) because it has convinced me that Blizzard have a genuine passion towards creating an e-sport. It shows that they've not only been trying to balance the game based on builds used by the professionals and high ranking players, but they've also been attempting to maximise diversity and creativity in build orders to create an interesting sport for the players and the spectators.
Unlike the other patches this one actually contains quite a few technical changes to the game such as the visibility of zerg units change which assists both players and spectators greatly as well as changing unit pathing to allow units to block enemy units, a much needed change that Blizzard made from following the advice of top tier players.
Terrran:
Anybody who's been following the recent competitive SC2 scene at all (ZOTAC 4 and ESL Invitational) should have seen the effect of SCVs and marines in the early game of TvT, as well as the strength of the TvP double rax cheese. The changes to SCV health and marine build time show that Blizzard are actively monitoring the compeititive scene and watching tournament replays to balance the game, prioritising the pro scene over balancing it for the copper noobies.
The reactor build time change is one of the better ones in this patch because it puts more focus on actually swapping addons or creating an addon for a building before that building has finished construction. Before the patch it was taking you long enough to swap the addons of buildings that many players simply created new ones since it was only 25 seconds campared to 10-15 and required less actions to do. It creates a massive amount of possibilities for intricate build orders where there is actually a noticeable effect of swapping the addons on buildings. If Blizzard were to also increase Tech Lab build time it'd only increase this effect as well as being a small nerf to the incredibly strong TvP Marauder build that Lucifron used against Nazgul to 3-0 the recent ESL invitational finals.
Ghosts heavily influence the outcome of a TvP, if they get sniped then the Terran player had suffered a big loss, while on the other hand two EMPs were able to take away most of the health of an entire Protoss army. Shrinking the radius allows for an increase in micromanagement, requiring the Terran player to actually aim at High Templar and Immortals yet not having to invest such a large portion of his gas in the early mid game.
Making mech a viable strategic option is needed for Terran play. If all Terrans play bio because it's easier and more mobile it makes the game dull from the point of view of both a player and a spectator. The Marine balancing as well as the Factory and Viking cost changes should make going mech more enticing to players, the cost reduction on Ghosts means you might even be able to use one or two in a mech army to EMP any Immortals being used against your Tanks. Whether these mech changes work or not is yet to be seen.
Protoss:
Blizzard are trying to get Protoss to tech to robo a lot less. Pretty much every good Protoss is just going straight to robo after either 1 or 2 Gateways in vT and vZ and getting Immortals or Colossi. Observers were cheap and since the tech was there a Protoss would get them without a second thought for the resources invested.
The nerf to Colossi and Observers as well as the Stalker buff are encouraging more Protoss to go HTs with charge and blink upgrades on a Stalker / Zealot main army or maybe even Stalker / Zealot / Sentry. The stalker buff also means possibly less zealot spam in PvP, less single unit spam can't be a bad thing for the game.
Zerg:
The baneling change makes them more viable against large amounts of stalkers and tanks, the two units Blizzard want to see a lot more of in games and that we should expect to see more in games(since both stalkers and mech play have been buffed). Since bio armies will have a lot more marauders now due to the marine changes it also helps to keep TvZ balanced.
The roach regen change as well as the baneling changes seem like a small attempt to diversify the ZvZ matchup which was pretty much slanted towards roaches and hydras. It won't even it out much, but it's getting there.
Overall I find that Blizzard is heading in the right direction and believe that the game will be in good competitive shape by release day, they may yet change their mind on high ground mechanics and EU / US seperation!
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There are some serious bad posts in this thread.
First thing that came to my mind:
Patch -> YES!
Patchlog -> Looking forward to play & test tonight!
End of story. You fucking crybabies. Give it some time to breath. Let the plays evolve first. Adapt to it and see where we land.
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Protoss:
Blizzard are trying to get Protoss to tech to robo a lot less. [..] encouraging more Protoss to go HTs
If they are trying to make people go the templar tree then why did they nerf HT and massively nerf DTs?
Especially considering Protoss is considered the weakest race at the moment (which all statistics prove).
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At first glance a lot of the changes are dead on, but then some just seem unwarranted.
That said, I'll wait before I play a lot of matches today before I say what I think is wrong about it, like many people in this thread should have.
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I can't really tell if the stalker was buffed or nerfed. I guess it's buffed for early game, but severely hampered for lategame.
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Why only 5 placement games? Ive now lost twice vs zergs with 50 APM simply cause zealots for some reason dont really block the ramp vs speedlings.. they just mass up 50 speedlings and atk. Can i scout what Z is doing? No. Can I move out with 5 zealots to try to raid? No. Chance is he has gone zerglings and not teching and if thats the case, i cant move out. Oh I went for observer who now is for some reason 50min 100gas. What did my observer do? What did my robo do? Nothing vs these disguisting rushes. That means ive lost 2 games of 2 played so far. I got 3 more to play and god knows i might even end up in bronze league if this crap continues.
If anything, the placements should be more than 25 games cause once your in gold/silver you cant move up it seems like.
What a crap.
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On March 26 2010 20:06 lolaloc wrote:
The amount complaints in this thread makes me wanna wish that there should be a Blizzard representative posting in TL.net
yeah... a Blizzard representative with a banhammer lol
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I noticed... performance improvements. Before I'm always at like 30fps, now without changing settings I'm at 50? plus faster loading times.
Sweeettt
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On March 26 2010 13:16 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2010 13:12 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 26 2010 12:36 Spinel720 wrote:
I still don't know how to deal with CharlieMurphy's "Mustaches" brood lords still gonna be able to kill me :/ gotta get carriers and mofo ship imo, I think a few archons might actually help to defend the stalkers from broodlings too. Are carriers really viable considering the huge damage bonus Corruptors get against them?
well people still make colossus even though corruptors get that damage boost too. Carriers are more mobile, longer range, can draw fire of corruptors to ceptors, and have more hp iirc. So yea, they are pretty decent unless the zerg has enough corruptors to 1 shot a carrier.
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On March 26 2010 21:11 _EmIL_ wrote:
Why only 5 placement games? Ive now lost twice vs zergs with 50 APM simply cause zealots for some reason dont really block the ramp vs speedlings.. they just mass up 50 speedlings and atk. Can i scout what Z is doing? No. Can I move out with 5 zealots to try to raid? No. Chance is he has gone zerglings and not teching and if thats the case, i cant move out. Oh I went for observer who now is for some reason 50min 100gas. What did my observer do? What did my robo do? Nothing vs these disguisting rushes. That means ive lost 2 games of 2 played so far. I got 3 more to play and god knows i might even end up in bronze league if this crap continues.
If anything, the placements should be more than 25 games cause once your in gold/silver you cant move up it seems like.
What a crap.
The matchmaking and ranking system is not geared as it will be in the final release. For example right now when you click 'find a game' it only looks for some1 in your skill bracket then quickly expands the search to get you into a game fast. When they release the game it will wait a lot longer before starting an expanded search. I am sure the 5 games is also just for ease of play for beta players, and not intended as a new matchmaking balance.
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On March 26 2010 21:36 MiyaviTeddy wrote:
I noticed... performance improvements. Before I'm always at like 30fps, now without changing settings I'm at 50? plus faster loading times.
Sweeettt
me too! ^^
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On March 26 2010 21:40 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2010 21:11 _EmIL_ wrote:
Why only 5 placement games? Ive now lost twice vs zergs with 50 APM simply cause zealots for some reason dont really block the ramp vs speedlings.. they just mass up 50 speedlings and atk. Can i scout what Z is doing? No. Can I move out with 5 zealots to try to raid? No. Chance is he has gone zerglings and not teching and if thats the case, i cant move out. Oh I went for observer who now is for some reason 50min 100gas. What did my observer do? What did my robo do? Nothing vs these disguisting rushes. That means ive lost 2 games of 2 played so far. I got 3 more to play and god knows i might even end up in bronze league if this crap continues.
If anything, the placements should be more than 25 games cause once your in gold/silver you cant move up it seems like.
What a crap. The matchmaking and ranking system is not geared as it will be in the final release. For example right now when you click 'find a game' it only looks for some1 in your skill bracket then quickly expands the search to get you into a game fast. When they release the game it will wait a lot longer before starting an expanded search. I am sure the 5 games is also just for ease of play for beta players, and not intended as a new matchmaking balance.
Well, id rather spend my 3 months of playing on the beta with playing vs better/same skill level as me. I just had some error with the game and now it doesnt even launch. I found a game to play on the matchmaking and before i could see my nexus and probes i get the error. Pretty sure tahts another loss on this worst fkn morning ever. Now i have 3 losses, no game was over 6 minutes lol.
I wanna go to my fridge and throw the cheese out of the balcony
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This is a good patch . DTs were a bitch to handle as T in a midgame tech switch, this should ease the pain. The marine / SCV / reactor nerf is for those gay TvP rushes, also needed.
The stalker buff is spot on, I think I mentioned the exact same thing on various forums 
I don't get it, what's the whine about?
Oh and I play Protoss.
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Marshall Islands104 Posts
Perhaps we are taking this too seriously :p
Blizzard knows that good players will figure out how to win. That means anything too weak will never be used. So, they make a drastic change on purpose to force the good players to incorporate these units/strategies into their play.
In a week or two a new patch will come out with new, more moderate changes.
...
Then the next week.
...
And the next.
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On March 26 2010 21:11 _EmIL_ wrote:
Why only 5 placement games? Ive now lost twice vs zergs with 50 APM simply cause zealots for some reason dont really block the ramp vs speedlings.. they just mass up 50 speedlings and atk. Can i scout what Z is doing? No. Can I move out with 5 zealots to try to raid? No. Chance is he has gone zerglings and not teching and if thats the case, i cant move out. Oh I went for observer who now is for some reason 50min 100gas. What did my observer do? What did my robo do? Nothing vs these disguisting rushes. That means ive lost 2 games of 2 played so far. I got 3 more to play and god knows i might even end up in bronze league if this crap continues.
If anything, the placements should be more than 25 games cause once your in gold/silver you cant move up it seems like.
What a crap.
Maybe you should, uhm, scout what the Zerg is doing and act accordingly instead of building 5 Zealots against 50 Zerglings and then Complain? He just could have gotten a few Banelings in there and your Choke would have broken anyway?
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Mister cool, tell me how to scout? I did observer asap but its too late. Did you read what I wrote? Since zergling catch up on both probe and zealot its pretty much impossible to scout him without observer/phoenix.
The other guy I played got few banelings but also then I put 3 cannons(scrap station) but still zergling run through zealots for some reason. I kinda killed that army but since 10 speedlings just ran to my nexus and got down a lot of probes I couldnt catch up.
Thing is, if P is supposed to put up a lot of cannons every game then that is not balanced in any way. Feels like Z has to many options to make vs P and P scouts Z a bit too late. Do you think Bisu would have had a chance vs Jaedong if zerglings were faster than his probe? No. To make zerglings faster than probes is the biggest mistake of this game in the PvZ MU
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On March 26 2010 20:24 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2010 20:06 lolaloc wrote:
The amount complaints in this thread makes me wanna wish that there should be a Blizzard representative posting in TL.net and then you read the complaints and pray to god no one from blizzard ever checks the forum
Nah.. he would be more useful by explaining the logic behind every changes made.
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unit voice still the same ...oh noooo
requareeeee moreeeeeeeee minirııılssss..
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On March 26 2010 08:57 notrangerjoe wrote:nnnnnnnnNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I'm not sure exactly why, but this makes me really really sad.
FINALLY
After 12 years they finally found out that scvs are imba!
Also i agree with every change, but the pathfindig nerf. Now protosses can be greedy bitches once again
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EPT
