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Beta Balance Update #14 - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
454 CommentsPost a Reply
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psychotics
Profile Joined July 2011
United States184 Posts
February 14 2013 00:23 GMT
#81
this helps alot as the helions being morphed can be targeted down with lings or roachs and cannot be healed till transformation is complete. this should at the very least slow down helbat drops and make them alot less dominate early.
Zax19
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Czech Republic1136 Posts
February 14 2013 00:24 GMT
#82
I can think of a dozen betterr changes but we'll see.
Really Blizz, really? - Darnell
Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
February 14 2013 00:24 GMT
#83
I started playing hots yesterday and have only used hellbat drops sparingly in anticipation of the nerf. It was so obvious it was coming and from watching stream it ruined TvT most of all so im more than happy about this change.
Amove for Aiur
DoNuTs84
Profile Joined February 2012
Denmark24 Posts
February 14 2013 00:25 GMT
#84
This change makes no difference. It STILL only takes 2 hits to kill workers. Its the unit itself that needs to be nerfed...alot
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
February 14 2013 00:26 GMT
#85
On February 14 2013 09:10 Dvriel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 09:06 RubixRambo wrote:
On February 14 2013 08:44 Dvriel wrote:
REally stupid change!!! After watching everybody not even trying to learn how to defend this,they just change the hellbat in the medivac and feel OK??? Come on,Change infestor took an year and if we talk about Terran its only a week???Why Blizzard,why? So sad...I feel so sorry if even Pros werent trying to defend well,just whining...


First off, it wont change the game that much. It will just prevent some earlier timings that can be extremely cost efficient. Secondly, every Zerg has been trying to figure out how to defend this, because every Terran does it in every ZvT. But without hurting your econ so drastically by throwing down a few spines and spores, there isn't much to be done with an early hellbat drop. Lastly, the infestor nerff came when they could supplement other units in so that the Zerg wouldn't just die. With that said, as a Zerg player I found it really frustrating to have army comps centered around one unit for all match ups.


8 mins is "early timing"??? I wroti this 1000 times in other threads and will continue: Terran need Factory,Starport,Medivac and Armory to do this drop.All this costs much more than one Roach Warren and 5 Roaches per base,because this amount of them kils the hellbats easy and fast enough,but really,if you see your enemy going for 8 min heavi bio drop,would you still making only drones??? You probably go for Baneling nest and heavy lings.Spines and spores arent the answer to this drop.


Exactly, Hellbats are Hive / Fleet beacon - Robo Bay - Dark Shrine - Templar tech in their levels
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
February 14 2013 00:26 GMT
#86
Good effort but I think the Hellbat still needs a bit of a nerfing.

Outside of drop harass they're just too good for only 100 minerals. Their dps needs to be weakened imo.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
February 14 2013 00:26 GMT
#87
On February 14 2013 08:38 awesomoecalypse wrote:
There was already precedent in SC2 for a unit taking up more cargo space than supply--Colossi take up an entire warp prism but just 6 supply.


As does a thor, seige tanks take up 4 spaces and cost only 3 supply. There is plenty of precedent.
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
FLuE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
February 14 2013 00:28 GMT
#88
I have more of an issue with the ability to boost in and essentially bypass static defense.

My solution would be that you can't unload while a medivac is speed boosted.

Boost should be used to retreat after a drop in my opinion or to just get across big maps faster. But the ability to make static defense useless or make you have to build to much of it is more an issue in my opinion.
GeorgeyBeats
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom338 Posts
February 14 2013 00:32 GMT
#89
Hmmm, 4 seems a bit overkill...
Is it possible for anything to take up 3 slots?
How many bears could bear grylls grill if bear grylls coud grill bears?
Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-14 00:33:52
February 14 2013 00:32 GMT
#90
On February 14 2013 09:26 nomyx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 09:10 Dvriel wrote:
On February 14 2013 09:06 RubixRambo wrote:
On February 14 2013 08:44 Dvriel wrote:
REally stupid change!!! After watching everybody not even trying to learn how to defend this,they just change the hellbat in the medivac and feel OK??? Come on,Change infestor took an year and if we talk about Terran its only a week???Why Blizzard,why? So sad...I feel so sorry if even Pros werent trying to defend well,just whining...


First off, it wont change the game that much. It will just prevent some earlier timings that can be extremely cost efficient. Secondly, every Zerg has been trying to figure out how to defend this, because every Terran does it in every ZvT. But without hurting your econ so drastically by throwing down a few spines and spores, there isn't much to be done with an early hellbat drop. Lastly, the infestor nerff came when they could supplement other units in so that the Zerg wouldn't just die. With that said, as a Zerg player I found it really frustrating to have army comps centered around one unit for all match ups.


8 mins is "early timing"??? I wroti this 1000 times in other threads and will continue: Terran need Factory,Starport,Medivac and Armory to do this drop.All this costs much more than one Roach Warren and 5 Roaches per base,because this amount of them kils the hellbats easy and fast enough,but really,if you see your enemy going for 8 min heavi bio drop,would you still making only drones??? You probably go for Baneling nest and heavy lings.Spines and spores arent the answer to this drop.


Exactly, Hellbats are Hive / Fleet beacon - Robo Bay - Dark Shrine - Templar tech in their levels


TvT became hellbat drop fest. It was boring to watch and seemingly impossible to stop without taking too heavy eco-damage instead (innovation vs I think fantasy). So it was far from just a tvx problem, and the core issue remained in the mirror matchup as well.

Either do what has been done, or delay the speedboost on medivac by whatever means were the solutions in my opinion.
Amove for Aiur
Dvriel
Profile Joined November 2011
607 Posts
February 14 2013 00:34 GMT
#91
On February 14 2013 09:26 nomyx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 09:10 Dvriel wrote:
On February 14 2013 09:06 RubixRambo wrote:
On February 14 2013 08:44 Dvriel wrote:
REally stupid change!!! After watching everybody not even trying to learn how to defend this,they just change the hellbat in the medivac and feel OK??? Come on,Change infestor took an year and if we talk about Terran its only a week???Why Blizzard,why? So sad...I feel so sorry if even Pros werent trying to defend well,just whining...


First off, it wont change the game that much. It will just prevent some earlier timings that can be extremely cost efficient. Secondly, every Zerg has been trying to figure out how to defend this, because every Terran does it in every ZvT. But without hurting your econ so drastically by throwing down a few spines and spores, there isn't much to be done with an early hellbat drop. Lastly, the infestor nerff came when they could supplement other units in so that the Zerg wouldn't just die. With that said, as a Zerg player I found it really frustrating to have army comps centered around one unit for all match ups.


8 mins is "early timing"??? I wroti this 1000 times in other threads and will continue: Terran need Factory,Starport,Medivac and Armory to do this drop.All this costs much more than one Roach Warren and 5 Roaches per base,because this amount of them kils the hellbats easy and fast enough,but really,if you see your enemy going for 8 min heavi bio drop,would you still making only drones??? You probably go for Baneling nest and heavy lings.Spines and spores arent the answer to this drop.


Exactly, Hellbats are Hive / Fleet beacon - Robo Bay - Dark Shrine - Templar tech in their levels


Hive comes after Lair and Infestation pit.

Fleet Bacon after Cyber Core and Star Gate

Dark Shrne after Cyber core and Twilight council

Its pretty much the same
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
February 14 2013 00:35 GMT
#92
Only 2 hellbats per medivac will make a huge difference. If the same medivac/hellbat rush timings are used, potential damage to your mineral line is now halved.

Since potential damage is now cut in half - this will do no more than just apply pressure, even in situations where there is no static defense of any kind. People are also ignoring the tech requirements to even perform said rush. The most frustrating thing about this, is the mindset that a tier 2 unit is doing too much damage to a mineral line, completely ignoring the requirements of the starport and an armory to make this attack possible.

This isn't a tier 2 unit anymore. This is at minimal a tier 2.5 unit which should rightfully be dangerous and considered a valid threat to your econ.
Canada
biomech
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany380 Posts
February 14 2013 00:35 GMT
#93
At least not every game will be hellbat drop opening now. It was too powerful compared to other options (mine drops, octo marine drop, hellion drop, .. cloaked banshee even).

Good thing.
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
February 14 2013 00:37 GMT
#94
On February 14 2013 09:26 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Good effort but I think the Hellbat still needs a bit of a nerfing.

Outside of drop harass they're just too good for only 100 minerals. Their dps needs to be weakened imo.


They require an armory to even exist(or transform into). That's constantly the theme that people are ignoring. It's not a unit that's immediately available upon introduction of the factory.
Canada
Beakyboo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States485 Posts
February 14 2013 00:38 GMT
#95
Hellbats are such an odd unit now. Hellions transform into hellbats and magically turn biological and now magically take up more room in medivacs too. I wish they'd find less awkward ways to make this unit work.
scudst0rm
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1149 Posts
February 14 2013 00:38 GMT
#96
Looks like they're trying to play with the mobility trade off between hellions and hell bats without touching the health/damage trade-off. It's a very scientific way to do things. Though everyone will agree the health/damage needs to be adjusted.

I think they want to keep hellbats OP on release (Along with other new units). I feel like it's at least a marketing consideration to guarantee that all the new units will be used in tournaments/streams to encourage people to buy the expansion. They want to force a meta-game shift. If all the new units were mediocre then everyone would more or less just stick with the WoL metagame upon release (We've seen this in the MLG qualifiers).
You're like a one ranger army comin' at me...
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
February 14 2013 00:40 GMT
#97
On February 14 2013 08:41 ZerGGling wrote:
but u still can transport 4 hellions and morph them into hellbats?


yes, correct. However -

1) drop them into a secluded corner
2) transform into hellbat mode
3) WALK to the mineral line

If you weren't already busted by in steps 1 and 2, step 3 is not going to result in any meaningful damage. He'll yank his drones away the moment he spots you lumbering towards the mineral line - unless you quickly load up 2 hellbats back into the medivac, and speed boost into the heart of the mineral line.

Then use the remaining other hellbats walking on foot to intercept possible escape routes.
Canada
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
February 14 2013 00:43 GMT
#98
On February 14 2013 09:34 Dvriel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 09:26 nomyx wrote:
On February 14 2013 09:10 Dvriel wrote:
On February 14 2013 09:06 RubixRambo wrote:
On February 14 2013 08:44 Dvriel wrote:
REally stupid change!!! After watching everybody not even trying to learn how to defend this,they just change the hellbat in the medivac and feel OK??? Come on,Change infestor took an year and if we talk about Terran its only a week???Why Blizzard,why? So sad...I feel so sorry if even Pros werent trying to defend well,just whining...


First off, it wont change the game that much. It will just prevent some earlier timings that can be extremely cost efficient. Secondly, every Zerg has been trying to figure out how to defend this, because every Terran does it in every ZvT. But without hurting your econ so drastically by throwing down a few spines and spores, there isn't much to be done with an early hellbat drop. Lastly, the infestor nerff came when they could supplement other units in so that the Zerg wouldn't just die. With that said, as a Zerg player I found it really frustrating to have army comps centered around one unit for all match ups.


8 mins is "early timing"??? I wroti this 1000 times in other threads and will continue: Terran need Factory,Starport,Medivac and Armory to do this drop.All this costs much more than one Roach Warren and 5 Roaches per base,because this amount of them kils the hellbats easy and fast enough,but really,if you see your enemy going for 8 min heavi bio drop,would you still making only drones??? You probably go for Baneling nest and heavy lings.Spines and spores arent the answer to this drop.


Exactly, Hellbats are Hive / Fleet beacon - Robo Bay - Dark Shrine - Templar tech in their levels


Hive comes after Lair and Infestation pit.

Fleet Bacon after Cyber Core and Star Gate

Dark Shrne after Cyber core and Twilight council

Its pretty much the same


Indeed, Rax->Factory->Starport->Armory
Hellboy.100
Profile Joined June 2011
Slovenia135 Posts
February 14 2013 00:46 GMT
#99
Well, from my point of view, hellbats are still terrible, the fact u are able to drop them on roaches, kill spines, kill queens easily, annihalate zerglings and i could go on, it's just imba as shit (and im a terran). Also oracle seem stupid aswell, now the job phoenix had is gone for the most part cause oracle does it faster and can also kill queens faster and has a late game useful spell. Not to mention void rays, from one point of view i like the new abilities with timers, but balance the shit up...terran problem vs protoss was that most units had energy and feedback was a bitch for them, but the new void rays, not even funny.

Also 4 gate is stronger due to mothership core high ground vision, blink is stronger cause u dont need robo (kind of, dark shrine cheap), immortal sentry push vs zerg is stronger due to mothership core since u can attack at any point and just go yolo recall back if zerg makes too many units, costing u nothing, zerg a lot of economy.

All in all, hots is fun, but i hope they speed up the balance process, many things are far from good. In WoL at least players were still all bad, now everyone is much better and metagame will be much more advanced.
DeathDyingDoomKiller
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada91 Posts
February 14 2013 00:48 GMT
#100
This doesn't do much for balance really, just slows down the hellbat drop power
Join the League of Evil. We have Murder, Evil, Blood, Grim Reaping, Killing, Death, Dying, Doom, Black, Dark Red, John Boehner, Reaper, Slaughter, and Kill-Death.
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