On February 16 2013 20:07 Infernal_dream wrote: Why in the hell are we even discussing military specs right now? Pretty sure this is a thread about HoTS not if 20mm can puncture m1a1 tanks.
No, modern day weapons and military engagements don't have a practical reference for RTS because we aren't using those weapons. We aren't hiding in building. We're not commanding 80k different troops. I can't give my marines snipers/LMG/and m203 loadouts. All of that shit has nothing to do with starcraft, take it somewhere else. Not to mention half the shit being posted about military grade things are wrong.
You are right. The whole point of the bringing in WWII weapons was to point out TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS IMPROVE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS DURING WAR.
Nerfs to new units designed to shake up the battlefield are counter intuitive. In other words, the game will not be exciting or new, since the new HotS units/strats perform as well as the same as WoL ones, why bother with the new units?
I just saw Husky's cast of Demuslim HotS series where the ONLY innovation in HotS he used was afterburner... That's it. Enjoy...
How exciting is that, seriously? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to introduce to my non-gaming friends, AMHERGARD HEART OF THE SWARM, and have them tell me,
"Dude, the game looks exactly the same, when you showed me two years ago.
So what? soldiers still go into these spaceships, get down and shoot the slimy base and then die from alien things eating their face. Rinse and repeat.
Whoever dies the most at some point decides to quit. The end."
Edit: formatting. and Demuslim series.
It's an expansion. For outsiders, of cause it would look similar or even the same. What do you expect? Space Orcs using light sabers?
CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre.
Those non-gaming friends of yours aren't the target audience, who cares.
I would really suggest you to stop making those WWII comments and other things because not only are they derailing the thread, but also just shows how often you got things wrong.
Leave the thread about starcraft and starcraft only. It's a game, it's at beta, things are going to be this way, balance goes beyond settings because it's a competitive game, not a realistic military war simulation whatever you think it is
On February 16 2013 20:07 Infernal_dream wrote: Why in the hell are we even discussing military specs right now? Pretty sure this is a thread about HoTS not if 20mm can puncture m1a1 tanks.
No, modern day weapons and military engagements don't have a practical reference for RTS because we aren't using those weapons. We aren't hiding in building. We're not commanding 80k different troops. I can't give my marines snipers/LMG/and m203 loadouts. All of that shit has nothing to do with starcraft, take it somewhere else. Not to mention half the shit being posted about military grade things are wrong.
You are right. The whole point of the bringing in WWII weapons was to point out TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS IMPROVE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS DURING WAR.
Nerfs to new units designed to shake up the battlefield are counter intuitive. In other words, the game will not be exciting or new, since the new HotS units/strats perform as well as the same as WoL ones, why bother with the new units?
I just saw Husky's cast of Demuslim HotS series where the ONLY innovation in HotS he used was afterburner... That's it. Enjoy...
How exciting is that, seriously? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to introduce to my non-gaming friends, AMHERGARD HEART OF THE SWARM, and have them tell me,
"Dude, the game looks exactly the same, when you showed me two years ago.
So what? soldiers still go into these spaceships, get down and shoot the slimy base and then die from alien things eating their face. Rinse and repeat.
Whoever dies the most at some point decides to quit. The end."
Edit: formatting. and Demuslim series.
It's an expansion. For outsiders, of cause it would look similar or even the same. What do you expect? Space Orcs using light sabers?
CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre.
Those non-gaming friends of yours aren't the target audience, who cares.
I would really suggest you to stop making those WWII comments and other things because not only are they derailing the thread, but also just shows how often you got things wrong.
Leave the thread about starcraft and starcraft only. It's a game, it's at beta, things are going to be this way, balance goes beyond settings because it's a competitive game, not a realistic military war simulation whatever you think it is
If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
I expect realistic scenarios not space orcs using light sabers as a new race, maybe Blizzard should introduce space orcs, because why not? Zerglings are a pet feature in WoW already. Who needs a realistic military science fiction RTS?
Let's see, CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre. Was the discussion about engine, story background and settings?
No, the discussion is about CoD MW introducing a new weapon into PvP then nerfing it to the ground because "IMBA". Let's see a list of Terran metagame nerf in the past two years: 1. ghost/marauder drop DEAD 2. early ghost nuke opener DEAD 3. ghost snipe rush DEAD 4. ghost/marine opening DEAD 5. reaper harass DEAD 6. marauder/reaper opening DEAD 7. Thor drops DEAD
While Z and P both have had their nerfbats, I won't be going into them as I'm not too familiar in those races.
How long will the game remain competitive if the 1million strong viewer base and pro-player base be if there's so few openings? How long before even a two week old spectator can spot an incoming baneling bust?
Where's the excitement?
I already stopped watching ZvZ for the past year because its boring. It's either baneling bust or muta rush and maybe roaches with infestors (if we're lucky). No drops, no nydus, no T3 even. I have also stopped playing two years ago because my favorite unit was ghost and opening ghosts/hellion vs. Z or P.
I already stopped watching ZvZ for the past year because its boring. It's either baneling bust or muta rush and maybe roaches with infestors (if we're lucky). No drops, no nydus, no T3 even. I have also stopped playing two years ago because my favorite unit was ghost and opening ghosts/hellion vs. Z or P
Yeah bro. You totally sound like you know the current metagame well. Definitely. And I agree that bitching about realism in a game where a couple dozen guys with machine guns have always been able to bring down city block sized battlecruisers is absolutely a great way to spend your time.
Sorry for this offtopic post but i can no longer tolerate such BS: Please STOP talking about military equipment. You have no fuckin idea what you are talking about. Every single thing you said about smgs, lee enfield rifles, cavalry or hinds and abrams was fuckin wrong.
I think he was making a broad analogy using military hardware and game units? Pretty sure.
Details aside though?
I particularly liked the whole Bruce Lee vs the Russian sniper in an elevator thing
On February 16 2013 20:07 Infernal_dream wrote: Why in the hell are we even discussing military specs right now? Pretty sure this is a thread about HoTS not if 20mm can puncture m1a1 tanks.
No, modern day weapons and military engagements don't have a practical reference for RTS because we aren't using those weapons. We aren't hiding in building. We're not commanding 80k different troops. I can't give my marines snipers/LMG/and m203 loadouts. All of that shit has nothing to do with starcraft, take it somewhere else. Not to mention half the shit being posted about military grade things are wrong.
You are right. The whole point of the bringing in WWII weapons was to point out TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS IMPROVE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS DURING WAR.
Nerfs to new units designed to shake up the battlefield are counter intuitive. In other words, the game will not be exciting or new, since the new HotS units/strats perform as well as the same as WoL ones, why bother with the new units?
I just saw Husky's cast of Demuslim HotS series where the ONLY innovation in HotS he used was afterburner... That's it. Enjoy...
How exciting is that, seriously? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to introduce to my non-gaming friends, AMHERGARD HEART OF THE SWARM, and have them tell me,
"Dude, the game looks exactly the same, when you showed me two years ago.
So what? soldiers still go into these spaceships, get down and shoot the slimy base and then die from alien things eating their face. Rinse and repeat.
Whoever dies the most at some point decides to quit. The end."
Edit: formatting. and Demuslim series.
It's an expansion. For outsiders, of cause it would look similar or even the same. What do you expect? Space Orcs using light sabers?
CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre.
Those non-gaming friends of yours aren't the target audience, who cares.
I would really suggest you to stop making those WWII comments and other things because not only are they derailing the thread, but also just shows how often you got things wrong.
Leave the thread about starcraft and starcraft only. It's a game, it's at beta, things are going to be this way, balance goes beyond settings because it's a competitive game, not a realistic military war simulation whatever you think it is
If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
I expect realistic scenarios not space orcs using light sabers as a new race, maybe Blizzard should introduce space orcs, because why not? Zerglings are a pet feature in WoW already. Who needs a realistic military science fiction RTS?
Let's see, CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre. Was the discussion about engine, story background and settings?
No, the discussion is about CoD MW introducing a new weapon into PvP then nerfing it to the ground because "IMBA". Let's see a list of Terran metagame nerf in the past two years: 1. ghost/marauder drop DEAD 2. early ghost nuke opener DEAD 3. ghost snipe rush DEAD 4. ghost/marine opening DEAD 5. reaper harass DEAD 6. marauder/reaper opening DEAD 7. Thor drops DEAD
While Z and P both have had their nerfbats, I won't be going into them as I'm not too familiar in those races.
How long will the game remain competitive if the 1million strong viewer base and pro-player base be if there's so few openings? How long before even a two week old spectator can spot an incoming baneling bust?
Where's the excitement?
I already stopped watching ZvZ for the past year because its boring. It's either baneling bust or muta rush and maybe roaches with infestors (if we're lucky). No drops, no nydus, no T3 even. I have also stopped playing two years ago because my favorite unit was ghost and opening ghosts/hellion vs. Z or P.
On February 16 2013 20:07 Infernal_dream wrote: Why in the hell are we even discussing military specs right now? Pretty sure this is a thread about HoTS not if 20mm can puncture m1a1 tanks.
No, modern day weapons and military engagements don't have a practical reference for RTS because we aren't using those weapons. We aren't hiding in building. We're not commanding 80k different troops. I can't give my marines snipers/LMG/and m203 loadouts. All of that shit has nothing to do with starcraft, take it somewhere else. Not to mention half the shit being posted about military grade things are wrong.
You are right. The whole point of the bringing in WWII weapons was to point out TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS IMPROVE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS DURING WAR.
Nerfs to new units designed to shake up the battlefield are counter intuitive. In other words, the game will not be exciting or new, since the new HotS units/strats perform as well as the same as WoL ones, why bother with the new units?
I just saw Husky's cast of Demuslim HotS series where the ONLY innovation in HotS he used was afterburner... That's it. Enjoy...
How exciting is that, seriously? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to introduce to my non-gaming friends, AMHERGARD HEART OF THE SWARM, and have them tell me,
"Dude, the game looks exactly the same, when you showed me two years ago.
So what? soldiers still go into these spaceships, get down and shoot the slimy base and then die from alien things eating their face. Rinse and repeat.
Whoever dies the most at some point decides to quit. The end."
Edit: formatting. and Demuslim series.
It's an expansion. For outsiders, of cause it would look similar or even the same. What do you expect? Space Orcs using light sabers?
CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre.
Those non-gaming friends of yours aren't the target audience, who cares.
I would really suggest you to stop making those WWII comments and other things because not only are they derailing the thread, but also just shows how often you got things wrong.
Leave the thread about starcraft and starcraft only. It's a game, it's at beta, things are going to be this way, balance goes beyond settings because it's a competitive game, not a realistic military war simulation whatever you think it is
If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
I expect realistic scenarios not space orcs using light sabers as a new race, maybe Blizzard should introduce space orcs, because why not? Zerglings are a pet feature in WoW already. Who needs a realistic military science fiction RTS?
Let's see, CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre. Was the discussion about engine, story background and settings?
No, the discussion is about CoD MW introducing a new weapon into PvP then nerfing it to the ground because "IMBA". Let's see a list of Terran metagame nerf in the past two years: 1. ghost/marauder drop DEAD 2. early ghost nuke opener DEAD 3. ghost snipe rush DEAD 4. ghost/marine opening DEAD 5. reaper harass DEAD 6. marauder/reaper opening DEAD 7. Thor drops DEAD
While Z and P both have had their nerfbats, I won't be going into them as I'm not too familiar in those races.
How long will the game remain competitive if the 1million strong viewer base and pro-player base be if there's so few openings? How long before even a two week old spectator can spot an incoming baneling bust?
Where's the excitement?
I already stopped watching ZvZ for the past year because its boring. It's either baneling bust or muta rush and maybe roaches with infestors (if we're lucky). No drops, no nydus, no T3 even. I have also stopped playing two years ago because my favorite unit was ghost and opening ghosts/hellion vs. Z or P.
Here's an Idea, lets stay on topic. Current and past military hardware comparisons, and complaints about nerfs to Terran made 2 1/2 years ago have nothing to do with the patch that was released. It just ends up annoying people reading the thread. Its a new game, who cares about old WoL openers that were nerfed years ago. It HotS now and stuff like hellbat and mine drops are being experimented with. Last I checkeed, they haven't been nerfed out of existence yet.
Also as a side-note half of those meta-game nerfs you list were never viable to begin with.
Watching HotS TvT streams is really stupid right now. Even with the cargo increase it seems that the aggressor (dropping hellbats first) has an easier task ahead of themselves as opposed to the defending player. Oh and late game zvz is also really stupid as it's mass ultralisk vs mass ultralisk.
On February 17 2013 01:16 archonOOid wrote: Watching HotS TvT streams is really stupid right now. Even with the cargo increase it seems that the aggressor (dropping hellbats first) has an easier task ahead of themselves as opposed to the defending player. Oh and late game zvz is also really stupid as it's mass ultralisk vs mass ultralisk.
PvP is dah best.
jokes aside, I find the new PvP a really fun matchup to watch and play.
On February 16 2013 20:07 Infernal_dream wrote: Why in the hell are we even discussing military specs right now? Pretty sure this is a thread about HoTS not if 20mm can puncture m1a1 tanks.
No, modern day weapons and military engagements don't have a practical reference for RTS because we aren't using those weapons. We aren't hiding in building. We're not commanding 80k different troops. I can't give my marines snipers/LMG/and m203 loadouts. All of that shit has nothing to do with starcraft, take it somewhere else. Not to mention half the shit being posted about military grade things are wrong.
You are right. The whole point of the bringing in WWII weapons was to point out TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS IMPROVE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS DURING WAR.
Nerfs to new units designed to shake up the battlefield are counter intuitive. In other words, the game will not be exciting or new, since the new HotS units/strats perform as well as the same as WoL ones, why bother with the new units?
I just saw Husky's cast of Demuslim HotS series where the ONLY innovation in HotS he used was afterburner... That's it. Enjoy...
How exciting is that, seriously? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to introduce to my non-gaming friends, AMHERGARD HEART OF THE SWARM, and have them tell me,
"Dude, the game looks exactly the same, when you showed me two years ago.
So what? soldiers still go into these spaceships, get down and shoot the slimy base and then die from alien things eating their face. Rinse and repeat.
Whoever dies the most at some point decides to quit. The end."
Edit: formatting. and Demuslim series.
It's an expansion. For outsiders, of cause it would look similar or even the same. What do you expect? Space Orcs using light sabers?
CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre.
Those non-gaming friends of yours aren't the target audience, who cares.
I would really suggest you to stop making those WWII comments and other things because not only are they derailing the thread, but also just shows how often you got things wrong.
Leave the thread about starcraft and starcraft only. It's a game, it's at beta, things are going to be this way, balance goes beyond settings because it's a competitive game, not a realistic military war simulation whatever you think it is
If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
I expect realistic scenarios not space orcs using light sabers as a new race, maybe Blizzard should introduce space orcs, because why not? Zerglings are a pet feature in WoW already. Who needs a realistic military science fiction RTS?
Let's see, CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre. Was the discussion about engine, story background and settings?
No, the discussion is about CoD MW introducing a new weapon into PvP then nerfing it to the ground because "IMBA". Let's see a list of Terran metagame nerf in the past two years: 1. ghost/marauder drop DEAD 2. early ghost nuke opener DEAD 3. ghost snipe rush DEAD 4. ghost/marine opening DEAD 5. reaper harass DEAD 6. marauder/reaper opening DEAD 7. Thor drops DEAD
While Z and P both have had their nerfbats, I won't be going into them as I'm not too familiar in those races.
How long will the game remain competitive if the 1million strong viewer base and pro-player base be if there's so few openings? How long before even a two week old spectator can spot an incoming baneling bust?
Where's the excitement?
I already stopped watching ZvZ for the past year because its boring. It's either baneling bust or muta rush and maybe roaches with infestors (if we're lucky). No drops, no nydus, no T3 even. I have also stopped playing two years ago because my favorite unit was ghost and opening ghosts/hellion vs. Z or P.
Here's an Idea, lets stay on topic. Current and past military hardware comparisons, and complaints about nerfs to Terran made 2 1/2 years ago have nothing to do with the patch that was released. It just ends up annoying people reading the thread. Its a new game, who cares about old WoL openers that were nerfed years ago. It HotS now and stuff like hellbat and mine drops are being experimented with. Last I checkeed, they haven't been nerfed out of existence yet.
Also as a side-note half of those meta-game nerfs you list were never viable to begin with.
I'd say he was only pointing out that Blizzards way of handling things leaves us with one or maybe two tactics which are "most effective" and thus used a lot and that there really should be many similarly valid tactics instead to give more variety and greater longevity to the game in the end. That was the intent of listing all the stuff.
Battle Hellion drops seem to be the "new best thing" at least for TvT right now ...
On February 16 2013 20:07 Infernal_dream wrote: Why in the hell are we even discussing military specs right now? Pretty sure this is a thread about HoTS not if 20mm can puncture m1a1 tanks.
No, modern day weapons and military engagements don't have a practical reference for RTS because we aren't using those weapons. We aren't hiding in building. We're not commanding 80k different troops. I can't give my marines snipers/LMG/and m203 loadouts. All of that shit has nothing to do with starcraft, take it somewhere else. Not to mention half the shit being posted about military grade things are wrong.
You are right. The whole point of the bringing in WWII weapons was to point out TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS IMPROVE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS DURING WAR.
Nerfs to new units designed to shake up the battlefield are counter intuitive. In other words, the game will not be exciting or new, since the new HotS units/strats perform as well as the same as WoL ones, why bother with the new units?
I just saw Husky's cast of Demuslim HotS series where the ONLY innovation in HotS he used was afterburner... That's it. Enjoy...
How exciting is that, seriously? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to introduce to my non-gaming friends, AMHERGARD HEART OF THE SWARM, and have them tell me,
"Dude, the game looks exactly the same, when you showed me two years ago.
So what? soldiers still go into these spaceships, get down and shoot the slimy base and then die from alien things eating their face. Rinse and repeat.
Whoever dies the most at some point decides to quit. The end."
Edit: formatting. and Demuslim series.
It's an expansion. For outsiders, of cause it would look similar or even the same. What do you expect? Space Orcs using light sabers?
CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre.
Those non-gaming friends of yours aren't the target audience, who cares.
I would really suggest you to stop making those WWII comments and other things because not only are they derailing the thread, but also just shows how often you got things wrong.
Leave the thread about starcraft and starcraft only. It's a game, it's at beta, things are going to be this way, balance goes beyond settings because it's a competitive game, not a realistic military war simulation whatever you think it is
If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
I expect realistic scenarios not space orcs using light sabers as a new race, maybe Blizzard should introduce space orcs, because why not? Zerglings are a pet feature in WoW already. Who needs a realistic military science fiction RTS?
Let's see, CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre. Was the discussion about engine, story background and settings?
No, the discussion is about CoD MW introducing a new weapon into PvP then nerfing it to the ground because "IMBA". Let's see a list of Terran metagame nerf in the past two years: 1. ghost/marauder drop DEAD 2. early ghost nuke opener DEAD 3. ghost snipe rush DEAD 4. ghost/marine opening DEAD 5. reaper harass DEAD 6. marauder/reaper opening DEAD 7. Thor drops DEAD
While Z and P both have had their nerfbats, I won't be going into them as I'm not too familiar in those races.
How long will the game remain competitive if the 1million strong viewer base and pro-player base be if there's so few openings? How long before even a two week old spectator can spot an incoming baneling bust?
Where's the excitement?
I already stopped watching ZvZ for the past year because its boring. It's either baneling bust or muta rush and maybe roaches with infestors (if we're lucky). No drops, no nydus, no T3 even. I have also stopped playing two years ago because my favorite unit was ghost and opening ghosts/hellion vs. Z or P.
Here's an Idea, lets stay on topic. Current and past military hardware comparisons, and complaints about nerfs to Terran made 2 1/2 years ago have nothing to do with the patch that was released. It just ends up annoying people reading the thread. Its a new game, who cares about old WoL openers that were nerfed years ago. It HotS now and stuff like hellbat and mine drops are being experimented with. Last I checkeed, they haven't been nerfed out of existence yet.
Also as a side-note half of those meta-game nerfs you list were never viable to begin with.
I'd say he was only pointing out that Blizzards way of handling things leaves us with one or maybe two tactics which are "most effective" and thus used a lot and that there really should be many similarly valid tactics instead to give more variety and greater longevity to the game in the end. That was the intent of listing all the stuff.
Battle Hellion drops seem to be the "new best thing" at least for TvT right now ...
He's doing it in a very odd way which seems to have something to do with boasting his military knowledge, which is off the wall and incorrect 80% of the time. Most effective exists in everything ever. From real life to video games. It's called min-maxing. It has been, and always will be done. That's why it's the most effective, that's why it's used. You can't make 500 different strategies have the same potency.
On February 16 2013 20:07 Infernal_dream wrote: Why in the hell are we even discussing military specs right now? Pretty sure this is a thread about HoTS not if 20mm can puncture m1a1 tanks.
No, modern day weapons and military engagements don't have a practical reference for RTS because we aren't using those weapons. We aren't hiding in building. We're not commanding 80k different troops. I can't give my marines snipers/LMG/and m203 loadouts. All of that shit has nothing to do with starcraft, take it somewhere else. Not to mention half the shit being posted about military grade things are wrong.
You are right. The whole point of the bringing in WWII weapons was to point out TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS IMPROVE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS DURING WAR.
Nerfs to new units designed to shake up the battlefield are counter intuitive. In other words, the game will not be exciting or new, since the new HotS units/strats perform as well as the same as WoL ones, why bother with the new units?
I just saw Husky's cast of Demuslim HotS series where the ONLY innovation in HotS he used was afterburner... That's it. Enjoy...
How exciting is that, seriously? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to introduce to my non-gaming friends, AMHERGARD HEART OF THE SWARM, and have them tell me,
"Dude, the game looks exactly the same, when you showed me two years ago.
So what? soldiers still go into these spaceships, get down and shoot the slimy base and then die from alien things eating their face. Rinse and repeat.
Whoever dies the most at some point decides to quit. The end."
Edit: formatting. and Demuslim series.
It's an expansion. For outsiders, of cause it would look similar or even the same. What do you expect? Space Orcs using light sabers?
CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre.
Those non-gaming friends of yours aren't the target audience, who cares.
I would really suggest you to stop making those WWII comments and other things because not only are they derailing the thread, but also just shows how often you got things wrong.
Leave the thread about starcraft and starcraft only. It's a game, it's at beta, things are going to be this way, balance goes beyond settings because it's a competitive game, not a realistic military war simulation whatever you think it is
If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
I expect realistic scenarios not space orcs using light sabers as a new race, maybe Blizzard should introduce space orcs, because why not? Zerglings are a pet feature in WoW already. Who needs a realistic military science fiction RTS?
Let's see, CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre. Was the discussion about engine, story background and settings?
No, the discussion is about CoD MW introducing a new weapon into PvP then nerfing it to the ground because "IMBA". Let's see a list of Terran metagame nerf in the past two years: 1. ghost/marauder drop DEAD 2. early ghost nuke opener DEAD 3. ghost snipe rush DEAD 4. ghost/marine opening DEAD 5. reaper harass DEAD 6. marauder/reaper opening DEAD 7. Thor drops DEAD
While Z and P both have had their nerfbats, I won't be going into them as I'm not too familiar in those races.
How long will the game remain competitive if the 1million strong viewer base and pro-player base be if there's so few openings? How long before even a two week old spectator can spot an incoming baneling bust?
Where's the excitement?
I already stopped watching ZvZ for the past year because its boring. It's either baneling bust or muta rush and maybe roaches with infestors (if we're lucky). No drops, no nydus, no T3 even. I have also stopped playing two years ago because my favorite unit was ghost and opening ghosts/hellion vs. Z or P.
Here's an Idea, lets stay on topic. Current and past military hardware comparisons, and complaints about nerfs to Terran made 2 1/2 years ago have nothing to do with the patch that was released. It just ends up annoying people reading the thread. Its a new game, who cares about old WoL openers that were nerfed years ago. It HotS now and stuff like hellbat and mine drops are being experimented with. Last I checkeed, they haven't been nerfed out of existence yet.
Also as a side-note half of those meta-game nerfs you list were never viable to begin with.
I'd say he was only pointing out that Blizzards way of handling things leaves us with one or maybe two tactics which are "most effective" and thus used a lot and that there really should be many similarly valid tactics instead to give more variety and greater longevity to the game in the end. That was the intent of listing all the stuff.
Battle Hellion drops seem to be the "new best thing" at least for TvT right now ...
He's doing it in a very odd way which seems to have something to do with boasting his military knowledge, which is off the wall and incorrect 80% of the time. Most effective exists in everything ever. From real life to video games. It's called min-maxing. It has been, and always will be done. That's why it's the most effective, that's why it's used. You can't make 500 different strategies have the same potency.
The "real life military progress bit" was total nonsense and calling for stops to nerfs during a beta is equally stupid because a beta is all about balancing stuff, but thats not in the last post quoted ...
On February 16 2013 20:07 Infernal_dream wrote: Why in the hell are we even discussing military specs right now? Pretty sure this is a thread about HoTS not if 20mm can puncture m1a1 tanks.
No, modern day weapons and military engagements don't have a practical reference for RTS because we aren't using those weapons. We aren't hiding in building. We're not commanding 80k different troops. I can't give my marines snipers/LMG/and m203 loadouts. All of that shit has nothing to do with starcraft, take it somewhere else. Not to mention half the shit being posted about military grade things are wrong.
You are right. The whole point of the bringing in WWII weapons was to point out TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS IMPROVE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS DURING WAR.
Nerfs to new units designed to shake up the battlefield are counter intuitive. In other words, the game will not be exciting or new, since the new HotS units/strats perform as well as the same as WoL ones, why bother with the new units?
I just saw Husky's cast of Demuslim HotS series where the ONLY innovation in HotS he used was afterburner... That's it. Enjoy...
How exciting is that, seriously? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to introduce to my non-gaming friends, AMHERGARD HEART OF THE SWARM, and have them tell me,
"Dude, the game looks exactly the same, when you showed me two years ago.
So what? soldiers still go into these spaceships, get down and shoot the slimy base and then die from alien things eating their face. Rinse and repeat.
Whoever dies the most at some point decides to quit. The end."
Edit: formatting. and Demuslim series.
It's an expansion. For outsiders, of cause it would look similar or even the same. What do you expect? Space Orcs using light sabers?
CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre.
Those non-gaming friends of yours aren't the target audience, who cares.
I would really suggest you to stop making those WWII comments and other things because not only are they derailing the thread, but also just shows how often you got things wrong.
Leave the thread about starcraft and starcraft only. It's a game, it's at beta, things are going to be this way, balance goes beyond settings because it's a competitive game, not a realistic military war simulation whatever you think it is
If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
I expect realistic scenarios not space orcs using light sabers as a new race, maybe Blizzard should introduce space orcs, because why not? Zerglings are a pet feature in WoW already. Who needs a realistic military science fiction RTS?
Let's see, CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre. Was the discussion about engine, story background and settings?
No, the discussion is about CoD MW introducing a new weapon into PvP then nerfing it to the ground because "IMBA". Let's see a list of Terran metagame nerf in the past two years: 1. ghost/marauder drop DEAD 2. early ghost nuke opener DEAD 3. ghost snipe rush DEAD 4. ghost/marine opening DEAD 5. reaper harass DEAD 6. marauder/reaper opening DEAD 7. Thor drops DEAD
While Z and P both have had their nerfbats, I won't be going into them as I'm not too familiar in those races.
How long will the game remain competitive if the 1million strong viewer base and pro-player base be if there's so few openings? How long before even a two week old spectator can spot an incoming baneling bust?
Where's the excitement?
I already stopped watching ZvZ for the past year because its boring. It's either baneling bust or muta rush and maybe roaches with infestors (if we're lucky). No drops, no nydus, no T3 even. I have also stopped playing two years ago because my favorite unit was ghost and opening ghosts/hellion vs. Z or P.
None of the openings you state are even decent. The thing about openings is that there are 2 or 3 which are optimal for each race, so that's why you could think there is so "small" variation in competitive play. I can agree with the dead of reaper harass,but that's it.
And ZvZ nowadays reaches T3 quite often, almost every game reaches the point of roach-infestor.
Learn about the metagame before criticising it dude..
On topic, I'm not really happy the way Blizz is balancing lately. This change of cargo space (or the biotag) is quite confusing. I would have prefered a change to the medivac boost which I feel is the main problematic of Hellbat drops.
I can't help but noticing this is another Terran nerf
Not that I think the change is wrong, but it does tend to happen a lot doesn't it?
Hellbat drops were OP, but imo it was caused by medivacs being too fast, not with the hellbats themselves. The sheer speed of medivacs with the speed boost is just ridiculous imo.
On February 16 2013 23:24 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
because it comes with an entire campaign? also it's 20 bucks cheaper than WoL? unless you're a sucker and ordered one of the editions with like a panda avatar or something lol.
On February 16 2013 23:24 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
because it comes with an entire campaign? also it's 20 bucks cheaper than WoL? unless you're a sucker and ordered one of the editions with like a panda avatar or something lol.
I hear brood war came with an entire campaign for all 3 races.
On February 16 2013 20:07 Infernal_dream wrote: Why in the hell are we even discussing military specs right now? Pretty sure this is a thread about HoTS not if 20mm can puncture m1a1 tanks.
No, modern day weapons and military engagements don't have a practical reference for RTS because we aren't using those weapons. We aren't hiding in building. We're not commanding 80k different troops. I can't give my marines snipers/LMG/and m203 loadouts. All of that shit has nothing to do with starcraft, take it somewhere else. Not to mention half the shit being posted about military grade things are wrong.
You are right. The whole point of the bringing in WWII weapons was to point out TECHNOLOGY AND METHODS IMPROVE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS DURING WAR.
Nerfs to new units designed to shake up the battlefield are counter intuitive. In other words, the game will not be exciting or new, since the new HotS units/strats perform as well as the same as WoL ones, why bother with the new units?
I just saw Husky's cast of Demuslim HotS series where the ONLY innovation in HotS he used was afterburner... That's it. Enjoy...
How exciting is that, seriously? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to introduce to my non-gaming friends, AMHERGARD HEART OF THE SWARM, and have them tell me,
"Dude, the game looks exactly the same, when you showed me two years ago.
So what? soldiers still go into these spaceships, get down and shoot the slimy base and then die from alien things eating their face. Rinse and repeat.
Whoever dies the most at some point decides to quit. The end."
Edit: formatting. and Demuslim series.
It's an expansion. For outsiders, of cause it would look similar or even the same. What do you expect? Space Orcs using light sabers?
CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre.
Those non-gaming friends of yours aren't the target audience, who cares.
I would really suggest you to stop making those WWII comments and other things because not only are they derailing the thread, but also just shows how often you got things wrong.
Leave the thread about starcraft and starcraft only. It's a game, it's at beta, things are going to be this way, balance goes beyond settings because it's a competitive game, not a realistic military war simulation whatever you think it is
If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
I expect realistic scenarios not space orcs using light sabers as a new race, maybe Blizzard should introduce space orcs, because why not? Zerglings are a pet feature in WoW already. Who needs a realistic military science fiction RTS?
Let's see, CoD MW used the same engine with the same story background and settings and still remains to be one of the most successful franchise in the FPS genre. Was the discussion about engine, story background and settings?
No, the discussion is about CoD MW introducing a new weapon into PvP then nerfing it to the ground because "IMBA". Let's see a list of Terran metagame nerf in the past two years: 1. ghost/marauder drop DEAD 2. early ghost nuke opener DEAD 3. ghost snipe rush DEAD 4. ghost/marine opening DEAD 5. reaper harass DEAD 6. marauder/reaper opening DEAD 7. Thor drops DEAD
While Z and P both have had their nerfbats, I won't be going into them as I'm not too familiar in those races.
How long will the game remain competitive if the 1million strong viewer base and pro-player base be if there's so few openings? How long before even a two week old spectator can spot an incoming baneling bust?
Where's the excitement?
I already stopped watching ZvZ for the past year because its boring. It's either baneling bust or muta rush and maybe roaches with infestors (if we're lucky). No drops, no nydus, no T3 even. I have also stopped playing two years ago because my favorite unit was ghost and opening ghosts/hellion vs. Z or P.
Here's an Idea, lets stay on topic. Current and past military hardware comparisons, and complaints about nerfs to Terran made 2 1/2 years ago have nothing to do with the patch that was released. It just ends up annoying people reading the thread. Its a new game, who cares about old WoL openers that were nerfed years ago. It HotS now and stuff like hellbat and mine drops are being experimented with. Last I checkeed, they haven't been nerfed out of existence yet.
Also as a side-note half of those meta-game nerfs you list were never viable to begin with.
I'd say he was only pointing out that Blizzards way of handling things leaves us with one or maybe two tactics which are "most effective" and thus used a lot and that there really should be many similarly valid tactics instead to give more variety and greater longevity to the game in the end. That was the intent of listing all the stuff.
Battle Hellion drops seem to be the "new best thing" at least for TvT right now ...
Yet more amazing insight from someone who admits they dont play beta...Your claims are far from true. Your thinking in WoL mindset still.
In HotS there are many new valid tactics, scouting is more important than ever because of this. You can't blindly go with the same strat every game and succeed as far as you could in WoL.
The most ironic thing about your posts is some of the changes you have tried to support (arguing that they were better than what Blizzard did) would have removed some of these options from the game, even for your own race.
Hellbats "were" the best new thing, but that was the problem, and why they had to be balanced, because they were removing the new found variety from the metagame. But instead of supporting their decision - which according to you would be for the better since your post just said you support varied tactics - you still complain.
You really are trashing up the HotS forum, everything you post is negative and non-constructive, and you don't even play the game... it's all pointless hating and negativity. I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't know why that is even allowed here...
On February 16 2013 23:24 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: If it was an expansion, why is it priced at a new game pricing?
because it comes with an entire campaign? also it's 20 bucks cheaper than WoL? unless you're a sucker and ordered one of the editions with like a panda avatar or something lol.
I hear brood war came with an entire campaign for all 3 races.
but sc2 campaign per race are much longer, so it equals out
On February 17 2013 05:50 iky43210 wrote: If you take medivacs speed away from terran, then WoL -> HOTS for terran = no changes.
On February 17 2013 06:12 zhurai wrote: pretty much.
What about insta-siege mode for tanks, what about widow mines, what about the entire unit of the hellbat, what about Mech armor upgrades benefiting air and ground. Dont be facetious.
EPT
