EPTBeta Balance Update #14 - Page 22
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
On February 17 2013 05:50 iky43210 wrote: If you take medivacs speed away from terran, then WoL -> HOTS for terran = no changes. I don't know, I've seen around 10 TvZs in HotS and every single one was a reaper rush into pure mech with constant battle hellion drop. It might have been coincident that I've ONLY seen that, but obviously a lot of terrans are relying on units/mechanics that are introduced in HotS | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On February 17 2013 06:28 abei1234 wrote: What about insta-siege mode for tanks, what about widow mines, what about the entire unit of the hellbat, what about Mech armor upgrades benefiting air and ground. Dont be facetious. I don't think it's being facetious. Insta-siege and vehicle armor could be patched into WOL and only a few timings would changed. A big complaint from a lot of Terrans, including myself, before the booster was introduced in the first place was that other than Widow Mines, Terran isn't really getting as many game changing units/options as Protoss and Zerg were. As far as gameplay changes, Hellbats aren't much more than a glorified Marauder that comes from the factory. In my opinion the medivac change will do more to change the way the game is played as far as Terran is involved far more than Widow Mines or Hellbats in the short term, and very likely in the long term as well. | ||
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ETisME
12365 Posts
On February 17 2013 10:38 Lunareste wrote: I don't think it's being facetious. Insta-siege and vehicle armor could be patched into WOL and only a few timings would changed. A big complaint from a lot of Terrans, including myself, before the booster was introduced in the first place was that other than Widow Mines, Terran isn't really getting as many game changing units/options as Protoss and Zerg were. As far as gameplay changes, Hellbats aren't much more than a glorified Marauder that comes from the factory. In my opinion the medivac change will do more to change the way the game is played as far as Terran is involved far more than Widow Mines or Hellbats in the short term, and very likely in the long term as well. Well, I think there are a lot of potential with the new reapers not needing the tech lab plus the tank not needing siege upgrade. It gives out a lot of new potential viable opening. For example, reaper forces more stalkers in TvP, which then a counter attack is defended by tanks. from watching streams, many are getting ravens earlier because the new HSM is quite powerful, something that is yet to be exploded more. I don't mind the new medivac boost so much because it is fun to look at, balance aside. I think it could use a small upgrade cost that's available later on through since the intent of this was to allow terran to go back to drop heavy style, there is no reason for it to come so early. While Hellbats may be just another marauder comes from the factory, the "comes from factory" part is actually a really crucial point. I think when to transform how many hellions into hellbats may help differentiate the good and the bad terrans. Widow mines also have a lot of potential, since it can be used both offensively and defensively. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
Ghost's cloak ability, does anyone remember it was changed to have a cooldown instead of toggle? Is it like this? Or did they change it back to just like cloak in WoL? | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On February 17 2013 15:44 dynwar7 wrote: Since there is no simple question and answer for HOTS, I will just ask here. Ghost's cloak ability, does anyone remember it was changed to have a cooldown instead of toggle? Is it like this? Or did they change it back to just like cloak in WoL? It's here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366967 They just haven't implemented this, like Ocular Parasite or custom Nydus variations. Maybe they need it for LotV | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On February 17 2013 06:28 abei1234 wrote: What about insta-siege mode for tanks, what about widow mines, what about the entire unit of the hellbat, what about Mech armor upgrades benefiting air and ground. Dont be facetious. insta siege mode for tanks? wait what? did I miss something? what is that? Edit: nevermind I took this as tanks transformer into siege mode instanty. Just realized it was meant as no research needed for siege mode | ||
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theinfamousone
United States103 Posts
2 hellbats are still super good. For a player who took more than 3 seconds to react to mineral line harass, you might as well rage quit. I was watching streams with the new 2 hellbats to a medivac and still, 2 shots go off from each and 6 workers are dead. The only thing you can do is run away. I haven't played much HotS, but as a platinum player, I can just see the frustration that will befall me trying to prepare for reapers, hellbat/hellion drops, banshee. It's so easy for terran to wall or proxy tech too. All I remember from the first month of WoL was reapers reapers everywhere. I still remember playing and some guy would float a barracks up to the high ground above my base and just make reapers from there that were unkillable and they'd just pick off workers and then my Nexus until I made an observer. I'm excited to play where they don't even need an add on. Terran is in a really dumb place right now. They are eventually going to have to nerf the ever living crap out of the reaper and and hellbat and they already basically got nothing in HotS. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
What about insta-siege mode for tanks, what about widow mines, what about the entire unit of the hellbat, what about Mech armor upgrades benefiting air and ground. Dont be facetious. Of them only widow mines and the hellbat can be called part of an expansion, especially removal of siege mode upgrade is just a patch level change. New thor anti-air attack is also an expansion change though, although of course not extremely significant. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On February 17 2013 10:00 Vorenius wrote: I don't know, I've seen around 10 TvZs in HotS and every single one was a reaper rush into pure mech with constant battle hellion drop. It might have been coincident that I've ONLY seen that, but obviously a lot of terrans are relying on units/mechanics that are introduced in HotS It's unfortunate, the various nerfs and buffs to other races (queens), has limited terran early game aggression in WoL. The hellbats, reapers and mines give new life to pre-10 minute aggression that's actually quite deadly, and they should rightfully use it. Personally i'd rather see an aggressive Terran than one who races for a third orbital, does a drop or two before a two two doom push. | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On February 18 2013 19:59 DeCoup wrote: Is anyone actually using the new Thor AA attack? I remember seeing a lot of discussion about how unless you are behind on upgrades its useless, but this was when it was first introduced. How's it playing out for everyone? It's pointless. The light damage splash gun is better in basically 99% situations. Sure, the sieged up mode is better in that one dream situation where u have your 1 thor vs 1 void (trololol :D) | ||
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
On February 18 2013 18:57 Sissors wrote: Nerf the crap out of the reaper? Its damage vs light was halved, its damage vs buildings a fraction of what it used to be. Sure its survivability was boosted, but thats the reason I dont see it as much more than a scout that is quite easily accessible. In WoL I quite often use the reaper in openings to actually deal damage, but in HotS I dont see it do much more than tickling the enemy. Of them only widow mines and the hellbat can be called part of an expansion, especially removal of siege mode upgrade is just a patch level change. New thor anti-air attack is also an expansion change though, although of course not extremely significant. If you actually feel like Reapers can't do early game damage I'm not sure what to tell you. They come out so much quicker, and move so much quicker, that they're out WAY before they ever were in WoL. Proxy Reaper is standard TvZ these days and not because Terran players like to 'tickle the enemy'. That said, I think the Reaper is in a reasonable spot these days. It's a significant investment from the Terran to get them out and, once speed or roaches is out, they can be properly dealt with. | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
On February 17 2013 05:50 iky43210 wrote: If you take medivacs speed away from terran, then WoL -> HOTS for terran = no changes. You're assuming T, Z and P were on equal footing in terms of things they have in WoL. I remember seeing a poll where almost everyone agreed T felt like the most complete race. It was a mistake of Blizzard because now in order to make things equal for all 3, T need to have less things added than P and Z, but that's the way to go. In the next expansion, if Blizz makes things right, it should be equal for all 3. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 18 2013 22:52 Apolo wrote: You're assuming T, Z and P were on equal footing in terms of things they have in WoL. I remember seeing a poll where almost everyone agreed T felt like the most complete race. It was a mistake of Blizzard because now in order to make things equal for all 3, T need to have less things added than P and Z, but that's the way to go. In the next expansion, if Blizz makes things right, it should be equal for all 3. And this means nothing what-so-ever as long as noone even knows what "complete" means. As far as I know, completness means this. Pretty un-Starcrafty term if you ask me. Even more according to that definition one thing cannot be "more complete" than another. It either is complete or it isn't. Not to mention that the whole assumption of Terran getting less is simply wrong. Terran has gotten roughly as many overall changes as the other races and 2 new units, just like Zerg. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On February 18 2013 23:31 Big J wrote: And this means nothing what-so-ever as long as noone even knows what "complete" means. As far as I know, completness means this. Pretty un-Starcrafty term if you ask me. Even more according to that definition one thing cannot be "more complete" than another. It either is complete or it isn't. Not to mention that the whole assumption of Terran getting less is simply wrong. Terran has gotten roughly as many overall changes as the other races and 2 new units, just like Zerg. I also share the same sentiment, the number of units is irrelevant in this issue. It's the changes that are made to specific units that boosts it's viability in certain situations (Thor HEP cannon, removal of Energy bar, etc). Terrans in WoL, although complete in terms of flexibility and their ability to answer most problems, had problems reaching late game. Even if we receive two new units, their synergy with our current units (hellbats for tanking, widow mines to address mass flying units and improve map control), makes Terran a far more effective race than in WoL. Even with the lower unit count, reworked units like the reaper and thor practically gave them a second life, further reinforcing our flexibility, paving a solid path for a viable late game Terran. If i wasn't so keen on random, i believe switching to Terran would be my first and only option. Oh and the new Ravens are awesome. Thumbs up Blizzard! | ||
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zerK
Canada176 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Hellbats on the other hand, aren't just substantially tougher, they can be healed, and they don't need to kite to effective shred tons of chargelots. Like, everyone always complained in WoL about how hard Immortals own Tanks...well, Immortal dps vs Hellbats is absolute crap, and if the Hellbats have even a little support from medivac healing, Immortals basically can't punch through them. Meaning there is plenty of time to emp the Immortals, then destroy them with tank shots from distance once Hardened shields go down. Its an entirely different dynamic. Frankly, at the moment, a max supply mech push with tanks well positioned in the second line, Hellbats/Mines up front, and a few ghosts and/or medivacs for support, is basically impossible for any Protoss ground army to break head on. Which IMO is as it should be. Protoss has skytoss to help with mech, they don't need a ground composition that can punch right through a well-positioned mech force head on. | ||
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chichom27
Ecuador56 Posts
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On February 18 2013 22:52 Apolo wrote: You're assuming T, Z and P were on equal footing in terms of things they have in WoL. I remember seeing a poll where almost everyone agreed T felt like the most complete race. It was a mistake of Blizzard because now in order to make things equal for all 3, T need to have less things added than P and Z, but that's the way to go. In the next expansion, if Blizz makes things right, it should be equal for all 3. False. That was simply a myth similar to the myth that "the Zerg army is virtually melee" (also false; the Zerg army only has 3 melee units total). As it currently stands Terran has the least amount of stuff. | ||
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