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Fen1kz
Russian Federation216 Posts
On February 14 2013 08:31 Nerevar wrote: Terran Hellbat -The cargo space required to transport a Hellbat has been increased from 2 to 4. 1) good, blizz, good, now hots is 100% balanced 2) i always wonder how incredibly fast they nerf terrans and how they give us 2-3 months for changed for zerg or protoss. | ||
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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
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CloudMage
Canada221 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
Starting point: Zerg have a pretty powerful and easy to use combo with their Broodlord-Infestor combination. Terran basically have one choice to battle this - with a decent chance of success - and that is the "dont let them get there" strategy. This is sad, because there should be a battle of equal forces where the more skilled player wins in an army vs. army battle. A direct confrontation only has a slim chance of success due to the overwhelming productivity of Zerg, which can whittle down Terran forces that arent as easily reproduced. Their solution to this is to give Terrans even more "dont let them get there"-power by adding a speed boost to Medivacs and letting Battle Hellions be healed by those same Medivacs. Obviously players are using this tactic and it gives terrans a pretty strong harrassment capability with even fewer units than a Medivac filled with Marines. Consequently you can do "drop micro" like they used to in that other game with that Protoss unit. It turns out to be powerful and since players cant be expected to build turrets / spore crawlers / photon cannons to cover the potential entry points into their bases they cleverly decide to just reduce the number of Battle Hellions carried by a Medivac. Sooo ... Blizzard is going down the "dont let them get there" path once again as their countermeasure because they have made the game so unstable that they have no clue how to create a unit which allows Terrans to fight this rather strong Broodlord-Infestor combo. Consequently we will have more "dominance of timings" (which is terrible) where players rush for "tactic X" to abuse their momentary lead in power ... so sad. ----- The real culprit isnt the Battle Hellion but rather the speed boost to the Medivacs AND the healing for the Battle Hellions. This increases longevity of an already tough unit AND neutralizes the main weakness of it (sluggish movement). There is a roleplaying game - Champions - where you can get "bonus points" at character creation if you take disadvantages and they have a maxim: "A disadvantage which isnt a disadvantage isnt a disadvantage (and thus worth no points)". Blizzard should really keep this in mind when designing their units, because anything that clearly neutralizes a disadvantage will boost the power of that unit considerably ... and part of that power is justified by that disadvantage. Really terrible change, but it is only one among many terrible design / balancing decisions, so no biggie ... | ||
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Torticoli
15 Posts
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KumihO.
United States55 Posts
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RubixRambo
United States9 Posts
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jackasc
Sweden8 Posts
On a sidenote: the Sporecrawler getting + to bio isn't elegant either. | ||
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Patate
Canada441 Posts
On February 14 2013 18:39 jackasc wrote: This isn't a very elegant solution. They should remove battle hellion heal which already isn't an elegant feature anyway. Balance should come with consistency. Medivac healing stuff from factory. That is not consistent. Any transport ship can take four two-supply-units, except battle hellions. That is not consistent. Not elegant solution at all. On a sidenote: the Sporecrawler getting + to bio isn't elegant either. What's wrong with spore crawler + damage to bio? It makes sense.. at least. Hellbats being biological is the dumbest shit however. It's not as if it's gonna be used in TvP with bio anyways. | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On February 14 2013 18:39 jackasc wrote: [...] Hellbats being biological is the dumbest shit however. It's not as if it's gonna be used in TvP with bio anyways. You may want to check out MKP vs Seed, MKP used Hellbats together with Bio and it worked really well vs Chargelots. | ||
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MidgetHumper
United Kingdom280 Posts
/rant. This started off as a troll post but after some thought this is not a bad idea.. David, I know your reading this, sort it out son! Edit: Battlecruisers are slow as hell and in TvT/Z/P there biggest weakness is that everyunit that can shoot them is also able to chase them down.. With this upgrade they can atleast escape back to the turtle homeland that is the terran base. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On February 14 2013 18:02 Rabiator wrote: CAUSE and EFFECT Starting point: Zerg have a pretty powerful and easy to use combo with their Broodlord-Infestor combination. Terran basically have one choice to battle this - with a decent chance of success - and that is the "dont let them get there" strategy. This is sad, because there should be a battle of equal forces where the more skilled player wins in an army vs. army battle. A direct confrontation only has a slim chance of success due to the overwhelming productivity of Zerg, which can whittle down Terran forces that arent as easily reproduced. Their solution to this is to give Terrans even more "dont let them get there"-power by adding a speed boost to Medivacs and letting Battle Hellions be healed by those same Medivacs. Obviously players are using this tactic and it gives terrans a pretty strong harrassment capability with even fewer units than a Medivac filled with Marines. Consequently you can do "drop micro" like they used to in that other game with that Protoss unit. It turns out to be powerful and since players cant be expected to build turrets / spore crawlers / photon cannons to cover the potential entry points into their bases they cleverly decide to just reduce the number of Battle Hellions carried by a Medivac. Sooo ... Blizzard is going down the "dont let them get there" path once again as their countermeasure because they have made the game so unstable that they have no clue how to create a unit which allows Terrans to fight this rather strong Broodlord-Infestor combo. Consequently we will have more "dominance of timings" (which is terrible) where players rush for "tactic X" to abuse their momentary lead in power ... so sad. ----- The real culprit isnt the Battle Hellion but rather the speed boost to the Medivacs AND the healing for the Battle Hellions. This increases longevity of an already tough unit AND neutralizes the main weakness of it (sluggish movement). There is a roleplaying game - Champions - where you can get "bonus points" at character creation if you take disadvantages and they have a maxim: "A disadvantage which isnt a disadvantage isnt a disadvantage (and thus worth no points)". Blizzard should really keep this in mind when designing their units, because anything that clearly neutralizes a disadvantage will boost the power of that unit considerably ... and part of that power is justified by that disadvantage. Really terrible change, but it is only one among many terrible design / balancing decisions, so no biggie ... Sorry but you do not realize that a medivac doesn't get hurt by spores(unless you put 10 in your base in which case you lost the game) since he moves so fast. It was clearly imbalanced because fleeing with your drones was not even enough. Also T still can use hellbats in direct fights (they aren't even bad vs roaches) or simply go mine+bio to contain zerg. There are many ways to prevent Z from getting to the WoL deathball. Not to mention thors are now better vs broodlords. You act like every Z/P (or T who is defending battle hellion drops) is stupid by saying "since players cant be expected to build turrets / spore crawlers / photon cannons to cover the potential entry points". Yesterday I've seen a game of Dragon vs DRG. Dragon went for double hellbat drop and drg had 3 queens and like 7-8 roaches to face that. The queens were in beautiful position and sniper the medivacs pretty quickly but still his army got destroyed and even lost some workers before fending off the drop completely. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
Originally Conceived by The mad genius mechanic, Hanzo Ottowa, Hellions are field rigged with SCV frame technology using their protective underbelly originally designed to protect the driver from flying debris in high speed off-road travel as a shield. The obvious drawback is that the hellbat is now a giant SCV with shields for arms. Not that it's a bad thing if the bad guys are charging winged zerglings out for your blood. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
EDIT: Eh btw, that was a reasonably fast nerf for terran! I wonder if they would do the same just as quickly to Z or P...hm..... | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On February 14 2013 19:28 dynwar7 wrote: Well, just the first of many terran nerfs to come..... EDIT: Eh btw, that was a reasonably fast nerf for terran! I wonder if they would do the same just as quickly to Z or P...hm..... They insta nerfed Oracles. | ||
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MtlGuitarist97
United States1539 Posts
On February 14 2013 19:28 dynwar7 wrote: Well, just the first of many terran nerfs to come..... EDIT: Eh btw, that was a reasonably fast nerf for terran! I wonder if they would do the same just as quickly to Z or P...hm..... I don't really care, hellbat drops were ruining TvT and TvT is my favorite matchup. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3702 Posts
It's so sad to see them "fix" their broken design, I love how they developed the warhound for 2 years, scraped it after community morons (who most of didn't even have a beta key) whined for a week, yet they keep trying to make their stupid hellbat design work... | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On February 14 2013 21:01 Lorch wrote: So we can't have decent units like the defiller because spells like dark swarm are too complicated, but a unit that becomes biological, can't go into bunkers, can be healed and repaired, doesn't get a different visual from blue flame and magically takes up double the space in a medivac is cool? It's so sad to see them "fix" their broken design, I love how they developed the warhound for 2 years, scraped it after community morons (who most of didn't even have a beta key) whined for a week, yet they keep trying to make their stupid hellbat design work... blueflame does not change its damage. Which us why it does not go blue. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3702 Posts
On February 14 2013 21:04 DeCoup wrote: blueflame does not change its damage. Which us why it does not go blue. Which makes sense how? Does the flame magically become worse as it transforms? Hellbat is probably the most complicated unit in the history of starcraft. | ||
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