On February 08 2013 10:07 Ksi wrote:
The fact that Blizzard is now resorting to giving bonus damage vs very, very specific unit types seems like a step in the wrong direction for how they should approach balance. It seems a little too conservative in one sense (making mild damage buffs vs. specific targets rather than reworking the units as a whole), but also a bit too complicated in another sense. I'd really hate to see us 5 patches down the line with every unit having a bunch of extremely specific +damage modifiers.

Yeah they should stop trying to control the metagame if it is mutas in zvz right now, let it be i can guarantee it will not remain that way. Let the players play don't make changes that specifically counter 1 unit to try and shit the meta game over top what they want it to be

Steel

Japan2283 Posts

February 08 2013 01:15 GMT

#23

I'd love to see the developers thoughts on the recent patches these make less and less sense to me. Biggest problem I'm seeing on the ladder is Protoss lategame... I play random, and it's silly. As Protoss I open with whatever, stargate or robo or gateway, scout and don't die to cheese, take bases, get collosus, get another base, get tempest, compliment with whatever and a-move. It's silly, my win rate as protoss is better than zerg and I'm masters zerg in WoL and play protoss only in team games xD.

So yeah I just don't get why they are putting in those changes... I mean the Spore Crawler change is nice I guess but mutas attacking your mineral lines weren't really the problem it's more that if they have mutas and you don't you can really leave your base or grab another. If you're stuck on 2base it's an instant loss and if you have 3 and don't lose too many drones you just make units and walk across the map and win. It's not that black and white but that's what it boils down to in most cases and spore crawler damage boost doesn't really fix that at all...

SolidMoose

United States1240 Posts

February 08 2013 01:17 GMT

#24

On February 08 2013 09:59 Valon wrote:
I like how they asked for our opinion, it was overwhelmingly negative and the put the changes in anyway. Why bother to ask for out input if they don't listen. This is one of the worst patches ever does not address any problems namely sky toss.

Which is why I find it funny when people say "don't worry, it's just a suggestion." It's not, they've already decided regardless of what is said in response to the ideas.

This +shields thing should be on tanks, period. Even if it's an upgrade.

DemigodcelpH

1138 Posts

February 08 2013 01:18 GMT

#25

My question is why wasn't the +shield damage given to the tank? The tank is (should be) the core, and not the Widow Mine.

On February 08 2013 10:23 Rance wrote:
They should've added a +dmg vs shield upgrade for the siege tank since every toss unit counters them

Kommatiazo

United States579 Posts

February 08 2013 01:20 GMT

#26

On February 08 2013 10:11 Tenks wrote:
Does anyone know how the Widow Mine's +shield damage is calculated? Does it pretty much instantly remove the 35 shields and then proceed to do it's damage? Because if it does it's payload and then does 35 shield damage ontop of it the only thing that effects are shots to Carriers and Colossus :/

As a Terran player I was really hoping for some kind of Hellbat nerf. I simply cannot find the will to log into the beta knowing I may roll a TvT which quickly became the stupidest matchup (worse than Reaper wars, imo) since the Hellbat drop build.

Also Archons, and MS I believe, but I too am curious to the exact calculation. Too bad beta's still down for patching so we can't test it.

And I second your thoughts on the hellbat. I play Random in HotS now, and even in the bottom of the barrel where I end up due to that the hellbat is dominating EVERYTHING. Honestly I'm not surprised that there haven't been any nerfs to it just yet with all of Blizzard's "We like to wait to see the metagame develop a little at least, and not just make rash use of the nerf bat" lines they hit us with for so long about the infestor. I would have liked to see a MENTION of it though. A "We are looking into the TvT and TvX matchups right now and will get back to you later" or something.

I really have no doubt that HotS will work out in the end, even if this patch was a little bit of a bust. But Sooner would be better because ladder anxiety be damned, hellbat anxiety is WAY WAY worse. lol

Mortal

2943 Posts

February 08 2013 01:21 GMT

#27

Appalling changes mostly.

Psych

United States41 Posts

February 08 2013 01:23 GMT

#28

Protoss in HoTS desperately need a nerf. Protoss all ins vs terran are frickin ridiculous right now. If a terran 1 rax FEs there is no good response to a void ray all in or blink stalker all in. The terran pretty much out right dies.

Larkin

United Kingdom7161 Posts

February 08 2013 01:23 GMT

#29

Surprised nothing hit the Oracle's damage/dps, it seems like it kills workers wayyyyy too fast.

Rance

Canada18 Posts

February 08 2013 01:23 GMT

#30

They should've added a +dmg vs shield upgrade for the siege tank since every toss unit counters them

Glorfindel21

France51 Posts

February 08 2013 01:24 GMT

#31

Specific damage (shield and antibio-spore) shows that balance has reached its limits. As they can't add new units/spells in the game, for it will complicate the game to a point where it would break the whole game, they have to make more and more small modifications, meaning : one clear anti-one-unit mod.

Before this, we were seing general solutions that had other applications as the metagame found those. Like for the WM. Now they are exploring this way, so directive to the player, a way that can't enlarge the builds, but simply shut them down.

Envision is really good, i saw Grubby using this on medivacs, on moving armies.

blinken

Canada368 Posts

February 08 2013 01:24 GMT

#32

Just got the beta, I'm wondering how long it usually goes down for patches?

archonOOid

1983 Posts

February 08 2013 01:25 GMT

#33

Why is it called balance update when blizzard actually is attempting to reduce the viability of mutalisks in zvz?

Arco

United States2090 Posts

February 08 2013 01:27 GMT

#34

Seems like they're not ready to make any big changes yet, just some minor tweaks to help stop Mutalisks in ZvZ, further buff Zerg scouting, make Envision more viable. The biggest change is probably the Fungal Growth change and Widow Mine change versus Protoss. Their Fungal-to-projectile nerf wasn't working as intended, the projectile was so fast it was nearly instant cast. The Widow Mine change I can't see being a huge buff versus Protoss, but we'll see how it plays out.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

February 08 2013 01:29 GMT

#35

Widow mine change does nothing for when games go long. The longer the game goes, the worse it is to have widow mines in your army in TvP.

Blizzard does not understand after the last months why mech tvp does not work. For people that think they'll "get it" it's not going to happen at this rate.

Pages have been written on the pro forums on how to make mech tvp more viable, and why it does not work, as well as about the flaws of the supply efficiency of the widow mine.

Don't expect mech tvp to be viable upon release - blizzard has no clue how to make it viable (and they are completely unwilling to listen on how to make tanks more viable), and at this point they throw random stuff at mech tvp and just pray it works instead of focusing on things like nerfing tempests, making tanks not suck, and nerfing immortals.

Oh wells.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

February 08 2013 01:30 GMT

#36

edit: sorry double post

Kireak

Sweden358 Posts

February 08 2013 01:30 GMT

#37

When the game is released blizzard will get a hefty balance hangover. It started out decent, you gave them the benefit of the doubt that they would work it out, but they screwed it royaly. Blizzard will have a pretty hefty balance wakeup when the game is released and tournaments start going.

playa

United States1284 Posts

February 08 2013 01:30 GMT

#38

I'm trying to figure this out. Revelation costs 75 energy, and no one uses it. Even if they were to use it, it's not going to eliminate any potential counters. Envisions costs 50 energy and now last for 60 seconds, giving it child proof against DT's? You have free hallucination. You opened air. What point in the game do you find yourself in your opponent's base gathering intel? Is this bronze league? How much time do you need to be able to react in a sensible way? Apparently, you don't need to scout now, because with 60 seconds, you can just wait for their strategy to show up.

Is there anywhere where they give the thoughts behind this? I just really can't see the reasoning behind this, besides trying to make sky toss not have counters. You can make cannons in p vs t before getting a robo up to stop mines, when going oracles. No biggie. For 60 seconds of revelation, along with a good attack, I'm starting to think the observer might be overpriced.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

February 08 2013 01:32 GMT

#39

On February 08 2013 10:30 Kireak wrote:
When the game is released blizzard will get a hefty balance hangover. It started out decent, you gave them the benefit of the doubt that they would work it out, but they screwed it royaly. Blizzard will have a pretty hefty balance wakeup when the game is released and tournaments start going.

Pretty much this. It's very pitiful that the beta has been out this long and blizzard has been unwilling to make the necessary changes to make mech tvp viable. They refuse to listen and they will not listen it looks like until post-release when they realize mech tvp is still shit.