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On January 19 2013 02:11 ACrow wrote:
VoidRay changes are fine. Reaper buff is from my perspective (P) warranted - what about TvT, I think that is where Reapers were used a lot - is this change fine for that match-up?
I'm still very skeptical about the burrow change. I doubt this will make it to release.
Reapers have the damage of a Queen/Workers . Them having more HP doesn't change shit. They now are purely a scout and only on Maps with Cliffs everywhere actually useful. With the 40 seconds buildtime and laughable damage nobody will get Reapers beyond earlygame. There's no reason to get them later for scouting because they don't fly . I could put them at expansions but i might as well put a Marine there .
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On January 19 2013 01:13 TeslasPigeon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 22:29 Umpteen wrote:Watching these vods, the author points out something interesting: it looks as though you can now bait widow mines with burrow micro and take only the splash part of the damage. In the video he clearly unburrows a low-hp roach, which activates a widow mine. He reburrows before the projectile hits, and the roach only takes splash damage. This is actually very cool. Micro mechanics like this is what makes the game interesting, if you are complaining about this I say bully to you.
It says a lot about these threads that I can call something interesting and people think I'm complaining.
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On January 19 2013 04:47 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +We're hoping to see players pull their units back against Prismatic Alignment, and re-engage once the ability is on cooldown. trying to force gameplay mechanics, wow.
Trying to let players know when it's activated. You can't force micro, but it helps when you know you should.
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I think the voidray change is a move in the wrong direction. Part of voidrays issues are that they have such a weird cost/supply ratio compared to most units that causes them to either trade supply or cost effeciently with too many things.
I would rather see something like this.
Void cost reduced to 150/100/3 supply (same as banshee)
Damage: 6(+4 Armored), +3 more armored while overcharged.
Fire rate: .5. Dps of 12, 20 armored, 26 overcharge armored. Better than a banshee while charged, same on armor uncharged, worse on light units. Also less burst.
HP: 60 Shields, 80 Health, 1 Armor
Range 5, only attacks ground now
What you get is a more specific version of the banshee without stealth but ends up being a bit tougher and slower moving. In order to avoid the corruptors now beating all protoss air, and keep other air dynamics the same or better we need 1 more change... this time to the phoenix.
Phoenix:
Damage: Changed from 5x2(+5 light) to 7x2(+3 light). Causes phoenix to trade roughly even with corruptors, and win a bit better with kiting after the APC upgrade. Phoenix still beat vikings, bit harder now though. Phoenix still lose to BC's/Carrier's but are a bit less hard countered. Ta-daa, much more balanced. Only issue that i can see is with lifting queens/other armored units.
Other problem with voids is that they are a pretty boring a-move units, mostly due to their low speed and lack of micro abilities other than the protoss air equivalent of stim.
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burrow change is going to be super interesting. Is the mothership core a detector?
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On January 19 2013 05:35 Lobotomist wrote:
burrow change is going to be super interesting. Is the mothership core a detector?
Not anymore.
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Not sure about the reaper change. Expected the voidray nerf though.
I wonder if the combat drugs may become a techlab upgrade later on down the road.
Edit:
On January 19 2013 05:08 Umpteen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:13 TeslasPigeon wrote:On January 18 2013 22:29 Umpteen wrote:Watching these vods, the author points out something interesting: it looks as though you can now bait widow mines with burrow micro and take only the splash part of the damage. In the video he clearly unburrows a low-hp roach, which activates a widow mine. He reburrows before the projectile hits, and the roach only takes splash damage. This is actually very cool. Micro mechanics like this is what makes the game interesting, if you are complaining about this I say bully to you. It says a lot about these threads that I can call something interesting and people think I'm complaining.
Lol so true. I can understand being passionate about the game, but the negativity and the self-righteousness around the HotS forum isn't really helpful.
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LOL next buff for reaper and why voids cost now 4 supply blizzard why??
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On January 19 2013 07:19 AlieN_ wrote:
LOL next buff for reaper and why voids cost now 4 supply blizzard why??
Ever used the new Reaper ? It can't do anything but scout anymore might as well allow it to not get killed as easy. It's not like it can really deal damage anymore. This way you might able to actually see something when you suicide your one Reaper you might build to scout.
Btw i really dislike TvT with tanks without siege upgrade. Leads to too much 1-1-1 stuff . It's just as stupid as it was when the Reaper was way too good.
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i don´t know how a non zerg can be happy about the burrow. vs any earlygame pressure, burrow your drones, you would lose a queen to a banshee, now burrow annd survive or force a scan. expansion block even earlier and the list goes on.
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I don't know how they managed it but with the last 2 Patches Blizzard made HotS even less enjoyable than WoL was/is right now. Feel like a huge clusterfuck right now.
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have played a lot of games so far as z and T this patch, burrow isn't really as helpful as lair tech coming earlier vs harass. like sometimes you will save drones vs the harss but lair is later so its less helpful imo. on the other hand, there are alot of good roach all ins now.. the last two games i have had my cc first delayed by a drone pull, on akilon and clos pos star station, then died to a follow up roach burrow attack
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I've been away from the scene for a while, but have they fixed the beta so mac users can play yet?
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Absolutely pointless patch changes by blizzard. I dont understand the point of making all of these highsupply units. The low supply cap compared to supply of units just encourages deathballing because you cant afford to have any units spread across the map. Also when is blizzard going to fix mech? Mech is less viable in HOTS than WOL.
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On January 19 2013 10:32 Loccstana wrote:
Absolutely pointless patch changes by blizzard. I dont understand the point of making all of these highsupply units. The low supply cap compared to supply of units just encourages deathballing because you cant afford to have any units spread across the map. Also when is blizzard going to fix mech? Mech is less viable in HOTS than WOL.
It doesn't look they can figure out whats wrong with Mech or figured it out and can't fix it without changes they aren't going to introduce 2 months before the Addon.
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long time overdue to change void ray supply to 4. They've been sort of like the roaches of SC2 when they were 1 supply, just to a much less-drastic effect. Zerg couldn't kill void rays while staying supply efficient (using same or less supply), aside from something like fungal clumping void rays, or using mass queens (with lots of energy and transfusing). Now I cam assume void rays could at least be defeated supply-wise by hydralisks.
Burrow, also long overdue in my opinion. In fact, for some reason I thought it was available at hatchery at one point long ago? (no I'm not thinking of BW)
Reaper nerf in previous patch was too much, and should deal more damage. Heal buff is fine, makes sense considering the regen upgrade. I guess with more health, and the extra speed, extra damage combined with that might make them too strong.
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United States7483 Posts
On January 19 2013 05:09 orakiodg wrote:
I think the voidray change is a move in the wrong direction. Part of voidrays issues are that they have such a weird cost/supply ratio compared to most units that causes them to either trade supply or cost effeciently with too many things.
I would rather see something like this.
Void cost reduced to 150/100/3 supply (same as banshee)
Damage: 6(+4 Armored), +3 more armored while overcharged.
Fire rate: .5. Dps of 12, 20 armored, 26 overcharge armored. Better than a banshee while charged, same on armor uncharged, worse on light units. Also less burst.
HP: 60 Shields, 80 Health, 1 Armor
Range 5, only attacks ground now
What you get is a more specific version of the banshee without stealth but ends up being a bit tougher and slower moving. In order to avoid the corruptors now beating all protoss air, and keep other air dynamics the same or better we need 1 more change... this time to the phoenix.
Phoenix:
Damage: Changed from 5x2(+5 light) to 7x2(+3 light). Causes phoenix to trade roughly even with corruptors, and win a bit better with kiting after the APC upgrade. Phoenix still beat vikings, bit harder now though. Phoenix still lose to BC's/Carrier's but are a bit less hard countered. Ta-daa, much more balanced. Only issue that i can see is with lifting queens/other armored units.
Other problem with voids is that they are a pretty boring a-move units, mostly due to their low speed and lack of micro abilities other than the protoss air equivalent of stim.
That voidray is actually terrible and useless. Banshee is good at killing workers, which is what it winds up doing most games. Cloak is a big help in its survivability and it's dps is consistently good against everything. Your void ray is good only at killing buildings (but not good enough to justify the cost) and armored ground units, which isn't even that much of an issue for a race which has immortals and chargelots -_-.
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On January 19 2013 05:09 orakiodg wrote:
I think the voidray change is a move in the wrong direction. Part of voidrays issues are that they have such a weird cost/supply ratio compared to most units that causes them to either trade supply or cost effeciently with too many things.
I would rather see something like this.
Void cost reduced to 150/100/3 supply (same as banshee)
Damage: 6(+4 Armored), +3 more armored while overcharged.
Fire rate: .5. Dps of 12, 20 armored, 26 overcharge armored. Better than a banshee while charged, same on armor uncharged, worse on light units. Also less burst.
HP: 60 Shields, 80 Health, 1 Armor
Range 5, only attacks ground now
What you get is a more specific version of the banshee without stealth but ends up being a bit tougher and slower moving. In order to avoid the corruptors now beating all protoss air, and keep other air dynamics the same or better we need 1 more change... this time to the phoenix.
Phoenix:
Damage: Changed from 5x2(+5 light) to 7x2(+3 light). Causes phoenix to trade roughly even with corruptors, and win a bit better with kiting after the APC upgrade. Phoenix still beat vikings, bit harder now though. Phoenix still lose to BC's/Carrier's but are a bit less hard countered. Ta-daa, much more balanced. Only issue that i can see is with lifting queens/other armored units.
Other problem with voids is that they are a pretty boring a-move units, mostly due to their low speed and lack of micro abilities other than the protoss air equivalent of stim.
both of your ideas are completely horrible
the voidray change goes against everything thats protoss or voidray about the voidray, and phoenix can already kite corruptors and are not supposed at all to trade evenly vs them, plus they would rape all air with that change
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Well this finally proves my point, that the game designers and balance team are looking for action games. They want action units and more highly anticipated games, which is fine but it really doesn't seem like they care to much about balancing it out." We decided to move the Burrow upgrade requirement to the Hatchery, because we feel that early Burrow usage with units like Zerglings, Banelings, and Roaches creates potential for more action during the early game. " Don't worry about balance or anything ; ) Given there is tons of time to balance the game , in my opinion I don't like where the game is going and its evolving into shit ever since brood war ended. I really hope at least they make new exciting maps instead of worrying so much about the action that the units bring. I guess I'll wait and see how everything turns out.
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On January 19 2013 16:45 Green Sun s Zenith wrote:
Well this finally proves my point, that the game designers and balance team are looking for action games. They want action units and more highly anticipated games, which is fine but it really doesn't seem like they care to much about balancing it out." We decided to move the Burrow upgrade requirement to the Hatchery, because we feel that early Burrow usage with units like Zerglings, Banelings, and Roaches creates potential for more action during the early game. " Don't worry about balance or anything ; ) Given there is tons of time to balance the game , in my opinion I don't like where the game is going and its evolving into shit ever since brood war ended. I really hope at least they make new exciting maps instead of worrying so much about the action that the units bring. I guess I'll wait and see how everything turns out.
If you think hatch tech burrow is imbalanced you really have a lot to look at. If it's because it "forces out detection earlier" well fuck what do you think we have to do when you protosses go 1 base DT or 2 base DT? We are forced to get detection earlier or well we die.
The complaining is just so so silly, terran can force zerg detection early, protoss can, and zerg can't. Zerg now can and "OMG SO IMBALANCED". Yeah no not even close.
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EPT
