EPTThe Warhound: Did We Make a Mistake? - Page 8
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Lorch
Germany3711 Posts
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.maxfreak.com/starcraft2/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/terran-tech-tree1.jpg) | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On January 07 2013 02:26 Lorch wrote: It's not us that did a mistake, it's blizzard. I will never ever be able to wrap my head around how 1 week of fucking retards on reddit qqing (when only very few people where even playing the beta, let alone any really good people) can make you scratch a unit you spent 2 years on. Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing, and removing the warhound will hurt sc2 long term, maybe they'll realize by the time lotv comes around. They removed the warhound because he overlapped too much with the marauder. While I was initially against the removal, I think that the scrapping of the warhound will be good in the long term because it helps to keep each unit's roles more distinct. Also with the warhound, the already very flexible got even more stuff. Thee current approach with adding just 1.5 new units helps to fix the issue in Wol that terrans are much more exciting that the other two races. | ||
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Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
On January 07 2013 02:41 [F_]aths wrote: They removed the warhound because he overlapped too much with the marauder. While I was initially against the removal, I think that the scrapping of the warhound will be good in the long term because it helps to keep each unit's roles more distinct. Also with the warhound, the already very flexible got even more stuff. Thee current approach with adding just 1.5 new units helps to fix the issue in Wol that terrans are much more exciting that the other two races. This isn't the right way tout think, you don't make a race less fun, you improve the others... | ||
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
On January 07 2013 02:38 StreetWise wrote: There was no mistake in its removal, however, it should have been replaced with another unit. I don't count firebats, I mean hellbats as a new unit its just a new ability for the hellion. The question is, what unit should replace the Warhound? I think the problem lies with the theory that units should have no overlap, because as it stands with this philosophy there is no room for another unit really. If they let the unit step on the toes of some other units they wouldn't make it so difficult for themselves in creating this new unit. Maybe they should bring back the cobra or perhaps even the Nomad! + Show Spoiler + The Nomad is just the old name for the Raven. On the other hand, the Cobra and Predator were completely unique units not replaced by anything else. I think the Cobra would be a pretty cool addition, but it would kind of overlap the Hellion. Who knows, though? | ||
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alone
Poland410 Posts
On January 07 2013 03:21 Arco wrote: The Nomad is just the old name for the Raven. On the other hand, the Cobra and Predator were completely unique units not replaced by anything else. I think the Cobra would be a pretty cool addition, but it would kind of overlap the Hellion. Who knows, though? Nomad was not raven http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/TF-620_Nomad http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/portals.php?&show=page&name=terran_nomad | ||
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Blazart
United States10 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7592579599 | ||
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DBS
515 Posts
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pmp10
3401 Posts
On January 07 2013 02:26 Lorch wrote: It's not us that did a mistake, it's blizzard. I will never ever be able to wrap my head around how 1 week of fucking retards on reddit qqing (when only very few people where even playing the beta, let alone any really good people) can make you scratch a unit you spent 2 years on. Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing, and removing the warhound will hurt sc2 long term, maybe they'll realize by the time lotv comes around. Actually many pros were of the same opinion including terrans like demuslim. That TvP would remain virtually unchanged in HotS didn't seem to concern anyone. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
I would not object to an addition as we wait for LoV, as we see how the meta game pans out. I think that anti-mechanical as a damage type was inherently a poor choice. We are talking about a unit that counters every Protoss unit besides Zealots, Archons, DTs and HTs. Granted Archons get extra damage against all biological, but I think it is safe to say that few are really up in arms about Archon balance (Toilet aside). | ||
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Armada Vega
Canada120 Posts
oh man, with all do respect, adding a new unit, great. Hey, even replacing the hellion since it does jack-sh@# for keeping tanks alive anyway or keeping mech a live in most matches, you don't make hellions to actually deal meaningful damage just delay death to your tanks. BUT, please no, not the warhound. Thors are annoying enough in this game, inferior to Goliaths in every way except HP. But to have another thor-like unit that does something kind of the same as a thor but not really, more specific counter unit, I don't know. I feel like that still makes mech...uninteresting and boring. Something more needs to exist to make a unit worth adding to mech. Take Widow Mine vs thor. Significantly different in every way. Take Tank vs Thor vs helion vs Widow Mine. They are all different, require different types of control to maximize its impact, and require different actions and behavior to protect them. Add in warhound? and...I don't see a big enough difference to warrant the unit needing to be there without its role being overlapped by another unit. I think the Mech tech tree of units has reached its max before you make units that just simply overlap each others roles. For serious changes, you will either have to replace the hellion or thor, or tweak settings and stats. But to add a brand new unit on top of what we already have? I'm not sure about that. . | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
Terran's ranged splash is obviously over-reliant on the siege tank, and as a result terran mech has the weaknesses of the siegetank at all times. Making some focus fire unit that's too strong doesn't address the issue of ranged splash being too finicky, it simply cause players to stop making siege tanks in favour of a unit that has none of the weaknesses. Tanks need to be slightly stronger (be it faster siege/unsiege, longer range, "shaped charge" or more damage in seige mode vs all armor types). Hellions have been changed, but for the worse, AFAIC. They now fulfill a front-line tanking role (a-move - subject to tank fire) and overlap with what the thor should be due to their short range, fast speed, and relative immobility in hellbat mode (particularly when trapped in front of the tanks and/or thors. Widow mines... can't stand 'em. They're slow attacking, feel like zerg units, and have terrible synergy with the rest of the mech army when it isn't sieged up or defending. I don't know how or why this is supposed to make mech more viable against Protoss when Protoss now gets free detection without a robotics facility, but apparently the great minds at Blizzard know. | ||
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MasterCynical
505 Posts
On January 07 2013 02:21 Morton wrote: So in consensus, the majority of people wanted the warhound removed, but expected something new for terran, and now feel that terran is a bit gimped in hots. well, hope they do something in patch #11 *fingers crossed* The only reason Terran players are feeling gimped is because this is the first time a unit has been cut from beta. If it happened before beta was launched, we wouldn't have this problem. That was the only mistake by Blizzard. If you think Terran isn't receiving enough changes in HOTS, then you need to look again. Many existing units are receiving rather substantial changes in addition to the two new units. | ||
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CikaZombi
Serbia630 Posts
I still don't think it would make Tanks or Thors strong enough but at least they are more versatile this way. | ||
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
(outside of just adding a unit to make Mech vs Protoss good) | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On January 07 2013 08:00 CikaZombi wrote: How about they resign the Mine transformation upgrade, into a 200/200 upgrade that affects the Mine (obviously), Siege Tank, and Thor's transformation speed? It could be called Neosteel Servos or something. I still don't think it would make Tanks or Thors strong enough but at least they are more versatile this way. I really don't follow. The mechling could shift a la Firebat, or siege tanks, and alter the form of damage it does and I assume not kill itself? Or do you mean to imply that it would set it self faster? Maybe something is going well above my head on what is being described here. Also siege tech is only 100/100 for cost, I would appreciate if you would elaborate here. | ||
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
K, putting aside balance for a moment, is the warhound fun to use and/or play against? This is a video game. | ||
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CikaZombi
Serbia630 Posts
On January 07 2013 08:05 ThomasjServo wrote: I really don't follow. The mechling could shift a la Firebat, or siege tanks, and alter the form of damage it does and I assume not kill itself? Or do you mean to imply that it would set it self faster? Maybe something is going well above my head on what is being described here. Also siege tech is only 100/100 for cost, I would appreciate if you would elaborate here. I wrote it down while in the middle of something so perhaps I wasn't clear. The upgrade would be the same as now (reducing mine burrow speed from 3 seconds to 1), but it would also affect things like siege mode transformation speed and thor cannon change speed. Maybe even hellion to hellbat transformation speed. They are all quite long now, and while I realize tanks really need that siege to unsiege delay, I was just throwing it out there as food for thought  | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On January 07 2013 08:47 CikaZombi wrote: I wrote it down while in the middle of something so perhaps I wasn't clear. The upgrade would be the same as now (reducing mine burrow speed from 3 seconds to 1), but it would also affect things like siege mode transformation speed and thor cannon change speed. Maybe even hellion to hellbat transformation speed. They are all quite long now, and while I realize tanks really need that siege to unsiege delay, I was just throwing it out there as food for thought Appreciated, that explains a fair bit thank you. | ||
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On January 07 2013 08:47 CikaZombi wrote: I wrote it down while in the middle of something so perhaps I wasn't clear. The upgrade would be the same as now (reducing mine burrow speed from 3 seconds to 1), but it would also affect things like siege mode transformation speed and thor cannon change speed. Maybe even hellion to hellbat transformation speed. They are all quite long now, and while I realize tanks really need that siege to unsiege delay, I was just throwing it out there as food for thought On the contrary it could be fun to make Tanks siege and unsiege instantly. Tank stutter step ftw. | ||
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