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On December 20 2012 21:07 najreteip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 19:23 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:On December 20 2012 19:07 summerloud wrote:On December 20 2012 18:36 Zombo Joe wrote:On December 20 2012 18:32 phodacbiet wrote:On December 20 2012 17:49 Scrubwave wrote:On December 20 2012 17:22 Xanbatou wrote:
You guys need to to calm down. It's a beta and they are clearly testing numbers. Did you actually think the infestor nerf was final? Moreover, do you actually think any of the units right now are final? They are just tweaking numbers. Its obvious that fungal is a little too strong right now. I think if they just decrease the speed to like 12 or something, it should be fine. Whoa, easy there, we don't want to overnerf infestors. Yeah seriously, infestors are really underused atm if you nerf it even more no one will use it. I think David Kim should make Fungal kill everything in one hit and have same range as tempest since tempest are out ranging them! Then fungal will be balanced! But seriously... i think blizzard "internal testing team" plays WoW instead of testing sc2. Dustin Browder himself did say his favorite thing to do is make WoW quests. WoW quests aren't exactly known for being engaging through story and gameplay. i didnt think my respect for DB could drop anymore before i read this... this guy is just too good to be true... hes like a movie villain at this point... WoW quest: go and destroy 10 rocks for me Starcraft, Legacy of the Void: Go and destroy ten rocks for me. Then build an expansion This post shows how ignorant you really are! Dustin Browder would never make you destroy rocks
Yes he does. You destroy rocks, and then other rocks with more HP appear.
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He will just add a third resource: rocks.
Cost of CC: 400m 0g 50rocks
And you will get them dunno, from destroying them?
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On December 20 2012 21:15 Sigmur wrote:
He will just add a third resource: rocks.
Cost of CC: 400m 0g 50rocks
And you will get them dunno, from destroying them?
No, you will get 1 rock if you kill an enemy unit firing at rocks. Rocks will be placed in all expand locations, so each team plays a constant game of trying to destroy rocks while trying to stop the other from destroying rocks because both are required to expand.
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I've been thinking about an idea how fungal could be changed.
What if it would target the ground instead of units, and the root would be changed to a heavy slow effect that affects all units in the "fungaled" aread? Maybe it could then be adjusted in some other area to compensate. That would make fungal more of an area control ability, and obviously it would include more micro and positioning from both players.
Good idea or am I forgetting something terribly obvious?
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I just cant believe that Fungal still deals freeze instead of slow to a unit.
Its so fucking overpowered, pretty much instant death.
Even progamers streaming dont even bother trying to save whatever got fungaled and just carry on macroing/ doing other stuff. "Oh my medivacs got fungaled, well better try to secure the third now since no amount of splitting will can save them whatsoever."
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I see three things:
1. remove energy upgrade
2. Make fungal unable to kill a unit (plague -> possibly more damage over a longer period of time too with this)
3. Make fungal a snare
4. possibly combine 2 and 3.
It's not so much fungal growth itself, it's the ability to chain fungals with pretty much a 100% success rate. I see David Kim's point, but it seems like a very convoluted way to put a bandaid over chain fungals.
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On December 20 2012 22:42 Mysticesper wrote:
I see three things:
1. remove energy upgrade
2. Make fungal unable to kill a unit (plague -> possibly more damage over a longer period of time too with this)
3. Make fungal a snare
4. possibly combine 2 and 3.
It's not so much fungal growth itself, it's the ability to chain fungals with pretty much a 100% success rate. I see David Kim's point, but it seems like a very convoluted way to put a bandaid over chain fungals.
Another possibility is to make fungal an AOE buff to own units for XY seconds.
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On December 20 2012 20:07 Zombo Joe wrote:
Honestly the speed upgrade on medivacs sounds plain retarded. Just make it a direct movement speed upgrade instead of an ability gimmick.
Medivacs used to be a lot faster before they got nerfed early on WoL.
Mostly because the maps consisted of steppes of war.
By a lot faster, you mean 2,75 speed instead of 2,5?
Yeah, a lot faster...
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As much as I hate fungal, we need to remember that the infestor isn't going to be the all around amazing unit that it was in wol.. Those infested terran are never going to be the same again. The die more easily and upgrades don't help them. That's huge.
Fungal should still be strong in the same way that storm and emp are strong. However, I also agree with most that it shouldn't completely negate micro post-fungal. At least now it can be microed against before it lands. Also, because of the delay between casting and landing the spell, it makes it harder to get as many units accurately fungalled..
I rate maybe slightly more damage and a 70-80% slow would make a lot of people happier and would make chain fungalling slightly less potent. Another idea I've been thinking of is that fungal could initially stop movement, but then fungalled units slowly regain their speed over the duration of the spell. Thoughts anyone?
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what they should really do with fungal if they want it to fix mutas in zvz:
-fungal growth now instant again instead of projectile
-fungal growth casting range decreased to 8
-fungal growth can now be cast while burrowed
-fungal growth now slows units by 50% instead of rooting them
-fungal growth now grounds light air units, making them attackable by ground units, or outright killing them if caught over unpassable terrain
there, i fixed it. fungal now still shuts down phoenix, oracle and muta, helping zerg anti-air. at the same time fungal doesnt ruin the game any more
i would post it at the beta forum but im at work and paranoid blizzard mechanics insta-lock my account due to "suspicious activity" when i log into the forums from a different IP
i contacted blizzard support and got a reply along the line from a gamemaster stating he couldnt locate me in WoW (i have no wow account) and that any problems are due to mists of pandaria launch
the fuck...?
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On December 20 2012 21:10 nucleo wrote:so... build rocks to support foundations for expansion? (: is this even serious? Oo how so?
Those villainous SC2 players keep destroying our rocks. I have tasked you with stopping them.
Mass ghost probably can beat mass infestor. The problem is that ghosts are horrible against everything else whereas infestors are wtfbbq awesome against everything else.
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Indigo make a point here: The fact that fungal couldn't kill unit is quite good give him this "nerf" and a 9 range, a slight speed nerf and it's ok to me 
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On December 20 2012 22:47 _indigo_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 22:42 Mysticesper wrote:
I see three things:
1. remove energy upgrade
2. Make fungal unable to kill a unit (plague -> possibly more damage over a longer period of time too with this)
3. Make fungal a snare
4. possibly combine 2 and 3.
It's not so much fungal growth itself, it's the ability to chain fungals with pretty much a 100% success rate. I see David Kim's point, but it seems like a very convoluted way to put a bandaid over chain fungals. Another possibility is to make fungal an AOE buff to own units for XY seconds.
I agree, the problem is the chainfungle because of the root.
Obviously they need to do a slow. I dont understand why they dont listen to the community...
Fungles which wouldnt kill units could be good too. They need to try the 2 different nerfs and see how it goes...
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make emp "dispell" fungal; could be justified by saying "electric shock causes roots to be shaken off" or smth like that
that would make the ghost a viable unit in tvz again
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It would be fun if fungal glued affected units together, but did not otherwise impede their movement (or maybe a mild slow). So if you fungaled two marines right next to each other they would have to move around in lockstep. If you fungaled two marines who were a distance apart, they wouldn't stick unless they got close to each other before the spell ended. The spell could last longer (although you could make the DPS part of the spell happen over the first 4 seconds).
That way you can use fungal to prevent splitting versus banelings, prevent movement through chokes (you're stuck in a big lump and can't fit through), glue marines to sieged tanks to stop them moving... lots of opportunities for cool stuff rather than *blork* - stuck in place no matter what. Fungaling an army right out in the open wouldn't lock them in place at all.
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On December 20 2012 23:54 Umpteen wrote:
It would be fun if fungal glued affected units together, but did not otherwise impede their movement (or maybe a mild slow). So if you fungaled two marines right next to each other they would have to move around in lockstep. If you fungaled two marines who were a distance apart, they wouldn't stick unless they got close to each other before the spell ended. The spell could last longer (although you could make the DPS part of the spell happen over the first 4 seconds).
That way you can use fungal to prevent splitting versus banelings, prevent movement through chokes (you're stuck in a big lump and can't fit through), glue marines to sieged tanks to stop them moving... lots of opportunities for cool stuff rather than *blork* - stuck in place no matter what. Fungaling an army right out in the open wouldn't lock them in place at all.
OMG This is the best idea i've ever read about the fungle ! :D
Would be a so much more interesting spell !
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On December 20 2012 22:42 Mysticesper wrote:
I see three things:
1. remove energy upgrade
2. Make fungal unable to kill a unit (plague -> possibly more damage over a longer period of time too with this)
3. Make fungal a snare
4. possibly combine 2 and 3.
It's not so much fungal growth itself, it's the ability to chain fungals with pretty much a 100% success rate. I see David Kim's point, but it seems like a very convoluted way to put a bandaid over chain fungals.
The snare is the best way to go at it imo, coupled with a projectile with a speed between 10 and 15. The energy upgrade is pretty important, zergs need that midgame fungal, it's once they have 10 infestors rooting everything in place and that broodlord army that it becomes stupid.
I feel they are so close to finding the correct way, keep the projectile, make it slower than 15 speed and please, please try the snare everyone is asking for. At least try it, that's the point of a beta.
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still would go for unchainable Fungal, most op spell should be hardest to use. And as long as commands are blocked while fungaled it will be hard to evade another fungal from hitting. Atleast for me it would make fungaling continuously or avoiding it interesting.
But I like blinking in Stalker teams to snipe Infestors and then doing a sidestep first. Fungal wasn't the real issue anyway, the biggest has been the Infested Terrans vs Toss. But that chain fungal outrange so much stuff and was way to easy to execute once you hit something makes the spell boring to watch, as it is almost impossible to stop the chain. And yeah in beat em ups it is awesome to have an unbeatable chains, but normally you can dodge the first punch and the opponent needs perfect timing to keep up. And when you see Zergs chain Fungal they often lose around 5-10ish damage, so far from perfect hehe.
Wish they would get rid of the lock for issuing commands while fungaled.
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On December 20 2012 21:15 Sigmur wrote:
He will just add a third resource: rocks.
Cost of CC: 400m 0g 50rocks
And you will get them dunno, from destroying them?
you do know that the game is designed around the rock paper scissors principle?
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Blizzard just doesn't listen to the community at all, such horrible business practice.
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EPT
