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On December 19 2012 08:31 Alex1Sun wrote:
I think these might be changes in a correct direction.
Now widow mine can be safely reduced to 1 supply. Waiting for it in the next patch.
As for fungal, I like that it is fast and long range, but I would rather see it's damage reduced.
If widow mines were reduced to 1 supply, I wouldn't mind the fungal buff as much. I hope that happens
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Lol. Terran. Splash damage remove from raven. Widow mine now can't even kill a single Protoss unit. Bio stays the same. Mech is not viable. Lol
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On December 19 2012 08:14 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:03 Prog455 wrote:On December 19 2012 07:58 InVerno wrote:
10 is the center of the aoe, but fungal can hit at 12 too because of 2 aoe radius.
So basically it's a siege tank without siege mode, with the 2x of the splash damage, 1psi less, moves cloacked and faster and every unit hitted slowly dies due to chain fungal. Eh ah, got a very strong anti air too.
At the cost of a bit gas more than a tank. Seems legit. If 10 is the center of the AoE, doesn't that make it 11 range? I assume that with 2 radius it would hit from 9 to 11 range. You're thinking of a diameter. It's a moot point, anyway, unless it's seriously being suggested that hitting one unit with the edge of a relatively slow missile-deployed AoE "makes it basically 12 range". It's 10 range with an AoE radius of 2.
Except in the case of chain fungaling. In which case it increased in range and worsened compared to WoL. This is not an unimportant point, as it means it is easier now to lose a whole army from range 12 once you made the mistake of not noticing infestors creeping up.
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I have to say that I agree with the posters who question the buff to fungal. If zerg is too weak now but some other unit again, not infestors.
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On December 19 2012 08:24 Crawdad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:22 SolidMoose wrote:
Widow Mine is useless now if it can't even stop drops. To be fair, most people didn't defend positions with a single WM.
You're right, they used a few widow mines spread out to cover different angles of attack. Now you have to put 2x as many to get the same effect.
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It would also be nice if caduceus was on the fusion core instead of a tech lab
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Lol my god, people talking about the game like they know so much more than blizz. "They have no clue blah blah blah", THE PATCH HASN'T EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET!!
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I just don't get the thought process. If you want to buff fungal, fine, choose ONE factor between mechanic, speed, radius, range, infestor cost, infestor supply, whatever... and test it to see where the real problem is. How can you test the balance changing speed AND range is beyond my comprehension.
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On December 19 2012 08:29 memcpy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:21 Sailincieri wrote:
Im totally confused.
First Blizz says "we’ve heavily nerfed the Infestor to make it less core to the Zerg army." - great idea, its what players wanted. Nerf spells that totally destroys micro and makes game boring to watch and play.
And now this big buff? And the reason: "We feel the initial nerfs to Fungal Growth were too much especially in ZvZ".
Realy?! How fungal can be too weak in ZvZ? Its mirror... It's because fungals were the only true counter to mass muta in zvz. The old fungal range/speed made it nearly impossible to hit mutas if they were paying attention.
And generally the course of action taken was adjusting a unit or ability that affected that MU the most and others the least. How is changing the most dominant spell, for the better, for one MU, justified in this case? It has large consequences besides ZvZ. There should be other options rather than buffing an already despised ability. It would be like saying: Blink Stalkers are too powerful in PvP so we doubled Immortal damage. T_T
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On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
And it's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out a solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose.
Because BW had a lot of tools to handle any kind of situations, for example Terran had Goliath to counter Protoss air play (carriers), lockdown etc. Now tell me 1 terran unit which trades evenly ( or close to evenly ) with air protoss and which abilites help vs HotS carriers and tempest.
And come up with the argument that you have to kill Protoss before it gets to that point. Its just stupid. There is no solution to it, the new seeker is bad, at least give back the splash.
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On December 19 2012 08:35 Breach_hu wrote:
Because BW had a lot of tools to handle any kind of situations, for example Terran had Goliath to counter Protoss air play (carriers), lockdown etc. Now tell me 1 terran unit which trades evenly ( or close to evenly ) with air protoss and which abilites help vs HotS carriers and tempest.
Marines.
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On December 19 2012 08:33 larse wrote:
Lol. Terran. Splash damage remove from raven. Widow mine now can't even kill a single Protoss unit. Bio stays the same. Mech is not viable. Lol
Lol. Have. you even. played terran. in HotS? Lol.
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On December 19 2012 08:35 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
And it's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out a solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose. Because BW had a lot of tools to handle any kind of situations, for example Terran had Goliath to counter Protoss air play (carriers), lockdown etc. Now tell me 1 terran unit which trades evenly ( or close to evenly ) with air protoss and which abilites help vs HotS carriers and tempest.
Marines
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On December 19 2012 08:33 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:24 Crawdad wrote:On December 19 2012 08:22 SolidMoose wrote:
Widow Mine is useless now if it can't even stop drops. To be fair, most people didn't defend positions with a single WM. You're right, they used a few widow mines spread out to cover different angles of attack. Now you have to put 2x as many to get the same effect.
That's not the same thing as "can't even stop drops."
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Italy12246 Posts
On December 19 2012 08:35 HollowLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:35 Breach_hu wrote:
Because BW had a lot of tools to handle any kind of situations, for example Terran had Goliath to counter Protoss air play (carriers), lockdown etc. Now tell me 1 terran unit which trades evenly ( or close to evenly ) with air protoss and which abilites help vs HotS carriers and tempest. Marines.
Pretty sure he's talking about mech.
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i don't agree with the blink time nerf. they are sending all pressure builds to oblivion... Why not just make stim with less 30 seconds? I hate fast expand builds...
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On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
Of course there are exceptions, and things may really be 'broken' like infestor/broodlord, but those will get sorted out regardless of what you say or feel. Whether it be through patches, players, or maps.
It's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out the solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was close enough to balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose, and to not concern themselves so much with balance.
F#%$ balance! SC2 should be all about micro and macro! Why they made spell that destorys micro totally? Its just very bad designe, nothing less. Becouse fungal sc2 is boring to watch and play.
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On December 19 2012 08:13 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:38 Aquila- wrote:
So to sum up Terran in HotS:
- Terran gets a shitty mine that cannot detect and doesnt even kill a single Zealot.
- A Hellion that is biological but doesnt benefit from bio upgrades but gets bonus damage from Archons.
- Reapers that destroyed the best mirror matchup in the game.
- A medivac upgrade that requires a fucking fusion core.
- Mech TvP is still utter trash.
While other races ge amazing things like the Viper.
Rofl. - HSM splash damage removed
There are more changes to come. Blizzard have stated more than once that they want TvP Mech to be viable and it simply isn't at the moment; not even close.
But yea, Widow Mines cost 75 minerals and 25 gas but can't kill a zealot which is a pure mineral dump unit. That's just stupid. This change means Widow mines can't kill medivacs, or banshees, or zealots. So we got a new unit that is ONLY useful against lings? Lings which were already not really a problem early game TvZ.
Caduceus medivac upgrade should be on the fusion core but not also require a tech lab on the starport. Getting that upgrade now means you need to spend 175 gas to able to spend another 100 gas on the upgrade and you've effectivley got 2 tech buildings that you won't use for anything but this. 275 gas can be spent in better ways which means the medivac upgrade probably wont be used that much. Seeing as though you can almost get 3 more medivacs instead of the upgrade, which is only a 66% buff anyway.
TvT at the moment is either reaper exand and trade 20+ SCV kills or lose the game. This needs to seriously be adjusted. They're far too good early game and still useless mid/late.
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On December 19 2012 08:35 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
And it's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out a solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose. Because BW had a lot of tools to handle any kind of situations, for example Terran had Goliath to counter Protoss air play (carriers), lockdown etc. Now tell me 1 terran unit which trades evenly ( or close to evenly ) with air protoss and which abilites help vs HotS carriers and tempest.
Looooooooooool
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On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
Of course there are exceptions, and things may really be 'broken' like infestor/broodlord, but those will get sorted out regardless of what you say or feel. Whether it be through patches, players, or maps.
It's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out the solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was close enough to balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose, and to not concern themselves so much with balance.
No whining and balance discussion means nobody gives a shit about the game or is emotionally invested in what happens in it. Sure its annyoing with alot of whine, but i cant help but whine sometimes my self, but i see it as a sign of the game having passionate players and viewers.
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EPT
