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On December 19 2012 08:33 SolidMoose wrote:
It would also be nice if caduceus was on the fusion core instead of a tech lab
good suggestion, it would also make more sense to have a reactor upgrade at the fusion core 
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Where is change to Seeker Missle which is like Yamato Cannon v 0.5 right now?
Why would they even implemented it in the first place ....
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On December 19 2012 08:36 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:35 Breach_hu wrote:On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
And it's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out a solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose. Because BW had a lot of tools to handle any kind of situations, for example Terran had Goliath to counter Protoss air play (carriers), lockdown etc. Now tell me 1 terran unit which trades evenly ( or close to evenly ) with air protoss and which abilites help vs HotS carriers and tempest. Marines
dude. Play a TvP in the real world. No games will ever come down to marines owning up protoss air armies.
If the protoss can go air they also have the resources to get high templars with storm.
This marine OP OMFG LOLOLOL thing needs to stop.
QXC said it really well: "The marine is a very strong unit, but the unit that counters marines shut them down so hard that you don't want to use them anymore"
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On December 19 2012 08:32 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
And it's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out a solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose. I guess most of our problems would be gone if we actually did have a solid game foundation that was balanced and designed in a reasonable way. Like BW was ...
BW had quite a few useless units, and its mirror match-ups were quite boring (muta+scourge zvz, hour-long tank tvt). Imho in SC2 mirror match-ups got better, but non-mirrors still require work to get to BW level. I however like the overall direction Blizz is taking now, let's see how it works when HoTS is released. Would however prefer a bit more positional and multi-pronged action (not like BW tvt, but like BW pvt), in other words I'd love Blizz buff tanks, but not too much.
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ok this is getting scary. scared for the game...
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On December 19 2012 08:38 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:33 SolidMoose wrote:
It would also be nice if caduceus was on the fusion core instead of a tech lab good suggestion, it would also make more sense to have a reactor upgrade at the fusion core
The way blizzard is pushing for terran air, I'm guessing they want to keep it at the tech lab to provoke different strategies; "Should I upgrade HSM speed first or the cactus upgrade for medivacs?".
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On December 19 2012 08:40 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:38 summerloud wrote:On December 19 2012 08:33 SolidMoose wrote:
It would also be nice if caduceus was on the fusion core instead of a tech lab good suggestion, it would also make more sense to have a reactor upgrade at the fusion core The way blizzard is pushing for terran air, I'm guessing they want to keep it at the tech lab to provoke different strategies; "Should I upgrade HSM speed first or the cactus upgrade for medivacs?".
It is called the Cactus Reactor
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On December 19 2012 08:39 Alex1Sun wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:32 one-one-one wrote:On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
And it's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out a solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose. I guess most of our problems would be gone if we actually did have a solid game foundation that was balanced and designed in a reasonable way. Like BW was ... BW had quite a few useless units, and its mirror match-ups were quite boring (muta+scourge zvz, hour-long tank tvt). Imho in SC2 mirror match-ups got better, but non-mirrors still require work. I however like the overall direction Blizz is taking now, let's see how it works when HoTS is released.
TvT was the brilliance of BW, the real strategy game, almost chesslike on high level. Best matchup on BW easily.
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are they patching the game right now, I can't login
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On December 19 2012 08:41 SlixSC wrote:
are they patching the game right now, I can't login
yeah.
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United States7166 Posts
On December 19 2012 08:35 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
And it's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out a solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose. Because BW had a lot of tools to handle any kind of situations, for example Terran had Goliath to counter Protoss air play (carriers), lockdown etc. Now tell me 1 terran unit which trades evenly ( or close to evenly ) with air protoss and which abilites help vs HotS carriers and tempest. And come up with the argument that you have to kill Protoss before it gets to that point. Its just stupid. There is no solution to it, the new seeker is bad, at least give back the splash.
it's beta. do you think blizzard will just let things go if races don't have proper solutions? just leave it up to them is my point and worry about what you can do in the meantime. timings to punish players for teching there sounds like a reasonable start..and if that doesnt work..improve your mechanics/timing/build until it does.
and btw, did you really just say lockdown vs carriers in BW? afaik (i didnt watch bw from 2009-10 as much so maybe i'm missing something) lockdown was not a very reasonable solution to counters. it was just goliaths..meaning in actuality it was good macro and timings and scouting and all that good stuff.
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On December 19 2012 08:41 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:39 Alex1Sun wrote:On December 19 2012 08:32 one-one-one wrote:On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
And it's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out a solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose. I guess most of our problems would be gone if we actually did have a solid game foundation that was balanced and designed in a reasonable way. Like BW was ... BW had quite a few useless units, and its mirror match-ups were quite boring (muta+scourge zvz, hour-long tank tvt). Imho in SC2 mirror match-ups got better, but non-mirrors still require work. I however like the overall direction Blizz is taking now, let's see how it works when HoTS is released. TvT was the brilliance of BW, the real strategy game, almost chesslike on high level. Best matchup on BW easily.
It could easily have been shorter by an hour or two though..
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Poor Blizzard, still trying to find a way to allow WMs to hit air. I assume they'll eventually work it out, and then be able to give T a genuinely useful and supply efficient unit rather. Until then... man those things are dumb.
I'm happy with the range buff. It makes sense that a projectile would require more range to fulfill the same role. Personally, I would quite like to see some mechanism where re-fungalling a unit doesn't extend the lockdown, as well. That way, Z would need to carefully time the follow-up, and the opponent would have a chance to get their units away.
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Fungal buffed already - this can only mean one thing.
Now comes the fun part when Blizzard realizes that all the changes are taking game balance into rock-paper-scissors territory.
Good thing that by now it's too late to fix anything and we get to watch them squirm as nothing ends up working right.
First months of HotS are going to be so funny to watch.
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On December 19 2012 08:41 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:39 Alex1Sun wrote:On December 19 2012 08:32 one-one-one wrote:On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
And it's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out a solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose. I guess most of our problems would be gone if we actually did have a solid game foundation that was balanced and designed in a reasonable way. Like BW was ... BW had quite a few useless units, and its mirror match-ups were quite boring (muta+scourge zvz, hour-long tank tvt). Imho in SC2 mirror match-ups got better, but non-mirrors still require work. I however like the overall direction Blizz is taking now, let's see how it works when HoTS is released. TvT was the brilliance of BW, the real strategy game, almost chesslike on high level. Best matchup on BW easily.
People understimate TvT in BW at spectator Level. But High Level TvT with Dropships everywhere, wraiths, turrets, etc was very awesome.
Most korean in TV really loved TvT.in BW. Specially the ones with player like Flash, FBH, Leta, etc.
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all I see is terran nerf nerf, protoss nerf, zerg buff buff. Widow mines are pretty useless now.
I just dont get it why zerg doesn´t have to adapt to new changes, i mean how many seeker missiles are missing the target??
it´s so ridiculous, zerg easiest race by far!
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On December 19 2012 08:45 pmp10 wrote:
Fungal buffed already - this can only mean one thing.
Now comes the fun part when Blizzard realizes that all the changes are taking game balance into rock-paper-scissors territory.
Good thing that by now it's too late to fix anything and we get to watch them squirm as nothing ends up working right.
First months of HotS are going to be so funny to watch.
Yeah, it's too late to change the game that hasn't come out yet.
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I quite dislike that they're buffing the fungal too, but mostly because of the reason they're doing it. You shouldn't state that you want to move the infestor out of the zerg core army, and then buff another unit so much that you in one patch later are forced to buff fungal again. How about nerfing mutalisks, which is the main problem maker in all matchups right now, and try buffing a couple of other units?
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The new fungal changes seem pretty silly... like they're reapplying it as a band-aid now that they realized that zerg without infestors is trash.
I kind of agree with the new medivac change, but feel that caduceus reactor should give some other bonus, like multiple target healing.
I don't understand the blink nerf's purpose, so I won't comment there.
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United States7166 Posts
On December 19 2012 08:36 Sailincieri wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:30 Zelniq wrote:
It pisses me off to no end that people are so obsessed with this thing they call 'balance.'
The hard truth is, most of the time you or the player you like didn't lose because the game is broken. In general, the player who played better won.
This is hard thing to accept for people, it's human nature to react this way, especially in a game that's constantly being patched.
Of course there are exceptions, and things may really be 'broken' like infestor/broodlord, but those will get sorted out regardless of what you say or feel. Whether it be through patches, players, or maps.
It's often hard / even impossible to be aware of the reasons why you lost, like when everyone like IdrA and other zergs felt when every protoss won with mass void ray/colossus..the knowledge just wasn't there of how to play vs that, or how to even play pvz. expansion timings, unit compositions, and the infestor was the key to beating this..not roach/hydra/corruptor like everyone did. And how long was this a problem? The pros couldn't figure out the solution for quite a while.
I just wish fans/players would adopt more of the attitude that BW players/fans did...just appreciating good play or who played better, and also that the game was close enough to balanced and it was up to the players and the map makers to solve any problems that arose, and to not concern themselves so much with balance. F#%$ balance! SC2 should be all about micro and macro! Why they made spell that destorys micro totally? Its just very bad designe, nothing less. Becouse fungal sc2 is boring to watch and play.
can't argue with that. in fact if for every whine/jab about balance was instead about bad design, we'd have a way better looking HotS beta.
can you imagine? colossus, infestors, force fields, just to name 3 of the worst..all re-designed, or replaced with new units because of community uproar (plus ofc Blizzard has to agree somewhat). ah............if only.
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