EPT[D]Blinding Cloud more effective vs mech than bio - Page 3
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Uni1987
Netherlands642 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9404 Posts
On December 18 2012 22:23 Markwerf wrote: I hardly believe that to be true.. Mech can make it very hard for zerg to get to hive comfortable and a couple vikings + tank spread do really well to prevent blinding cloud from being too bad. i can confirm it. Idra played a terran player on the stream and the terran player asked Idra how he could make mech viable, and that he had tried to split up his tanks. Idra responded that he didn't think mech was viable against roach/hydra/viper. He could be wrong, but I think mech is currently UP vs zerg right now. I think they should consider reducing the AOE og the cloud. | ||
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
On December 18 2012 23:07 Big J wrote: Ok, so out of a very reliant source I know that the OP of the battle.net thread was kind of tired when writing said thread. So to outline the idea better (really poorly written), I think that the effect should be changed from "reduces all ranges to melee" to "reduces all damage done to 0, if the target was not in melee range" - so basically units try to shoot, but miss because they are blind  Bio is just one example. Roaches, Hydras and Stalkers are similiar examples, as they will also very quickly dodge the cloud. Though I agree, that running towards an opponent is often still something good, it is in a lot of cases not a significant advantage as the distance isn't that big on average. I don't think that it is a useless tool against such units. I just think that it is not working out like intended. I dont think, there needs to be any more explanation to this, because BigJ just nailed it. This was btw. the way Blizzard introduced to the spell from the beginning | ||
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TheManInBlack
Nigeria266 Posts
On December 18 2012 23:59 Uni1987 wrote: NarAliya: Why in earth should we take you seriously when you disregard the opinion of a professional player, and also insult him while you are at it. Who the fuck are you? If you wanna suck off idra, there is a fan page for that - not this thread. Calling someone irrelevant isn't insulting them. As for who am I, I'm a postgrad who can't play often due to many responsibilities. Who are you? Another kid who regards people who play games all day as worthy of worship? And if you can't take me seriously simply because I don't share the same reverence of your idol idra, then I'm really not the one being stupid here. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On December 19 2012 00:09 ch4ppi wrote: I dont think, there needs to be any more explanation to this, because BigJ just nailed it. This was btw. the way Blizzard introduced to the spell from the beginning damage to zero / missing is very unfriendly for spectators. You see all these units firing but it's very hard to tell what effect each has. The units not firing at all looks much better. I don't think there is a problem at all to be honest, in it's current state it really rewards combining blinding cloud with fungal except against tanks. Also getting a surround of protoss circling itself with forcefields is quite interesting in combination with blinding cloud now. If it turns out to be too strong the viper can easily be tweaked (lower hp again, smaller aoe, shorter range etc.) but in principal the spell feels fine and the viper is by far the best addition to the game in HotS imo. \ Blinding cloud being good against mech and fungal being good against bio is completely is good isn't it? Diversity in playstyle for zerg depending on what terran does makes the game more interesting | ||
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TheManInBlack
Nigeria266 Posts
On December 19 2012 00:16 Markwerf wrote: Blinding cloud being good against mech and fungal being good against bio is completely is good isn't it? Diversity in playstyle for zerg depending on what terran does makes the game more interesting My personal problem with Binding Cloud as this point is that it doesn't take much 'skill' to execute and I feel this is what needs to be cut out of the game.. Otherwise its Infestors-imba all over again. Clicking the Cloud and then sitting back in my opinion is more unfriendly than not having units fire when under the cloud. | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On December 19 2012 00:19 NarAliya wrote: My personal problem with Binding Cloud as this point is that it doesn't take much 'skill' to execute and I feel this is what needs to be cut out of the game.. Otherwise its Infestors-imba all over again. Clicking the Cloud and then sitting back in my opinion is more unfriendly than not having units fire when under the cloud. Maybe you are right The good news is : Blizzard can now buff mech so that it can work against toss Because now zerg has a tool to fight mech Buffed tanks please ! So it's just cool ! | ||
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
As far as with Mech, they may eventually judge it to be too strong. It's hard to say. If you can use Widow Mines to protect the flank from which the Vipers are coming, you can do pretty good (they will still get off at least a few spells). Defensively you can take the time to split and do pretty alright if you have something to snipe the Vipers like Turrets. Offensively it is not easy to hit timings though, you have to move very slowly across the map. It's just not possible to move in a big clump and try and split when the fight starts if your Zerg opponent is correctly threatening the engagement at any point. You really have to leap frog a bit, use Widow Mines to spot their army and slow it down, etc. If they judge it to be too powerful it will be, IMO, because one bad trade with Blinding Cloud against Mech is almost 100% game over. | ||
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samwise_the_brave
Germany11 Posts
[QUOTE]On December 18 2012 22:50 Everlong wrote: [QUOTE]On December 18 2012 22:41 NarAliya wrote: Doesn't the Binding Cloud dissipate after the Vipers are killed though? And less talk about idra please, he's irrelevant and his opinion really shouldn't taken as a stone tablet.[/QUOTE] No, it stays for whole 7 seconds (I think it's 7).. [/QUOTE] 14 ingame seconds  i had the same problems with vipers as mechg recently even though i had a decent spread and vikiings plus raven in my army compositon i was completly raped by a roach / hydra army in that fight u just cant kill vipers fast enough and once the cloud is there u have lost | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On December 19 2012 00:02 Hider wrote: i can confirm it. Idra played a terran player on the stream and the terran player asked Idra how he could make mech viable, and that he had tried to split up his tanks. Idra responded that he didn't think mech was viable against roach/hydra/viper. He could be wrong, but I think mech is currently UP vs zerg right now. I think they should consider reducing the AOE og the cloud. Agreed, and it's definitely quite sad because I love the Viper. There's also significant conclusive evidence that mech is also utterly nonviable vs. Protoss too. At this point they really should consider reverting the tank nerfs considering these were largely triggered by 2010 maps. | ||
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Uni1987
Netherlands642 Posts
On December 19 2012 00:16 NarAliya wrote: If you wanna suck off idra, there is a fan page for that - not this thread. Calling someone irrelevant isn't insulting them. As for who am I, I'm a postgrad who can't play often due to many responsibilities. Who are you? Another kid who regards people who play games all day as worthy of worship? And if you can't take me seriously simply because I don't share the same reverence of your idol idra, then I'm really not the one being stupid here. Oh, you got a degree in starcraft 2? I don't think so, thus making his opinion of higher value than yours. I coulnd't care less about you being a postgrad, nor does it apply on this discussion but nice of you to bring it up, narcissistic much? Of course I cannot take you seriously, it's like saying "Oh Lionel Messi, what a terrible shot, you should have done it that way!". I do not revere Idra, I simply respect the opinion of a professional. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On December 19 2012 01:26 kcdc wrote: Do units really run out automatically or do people just move-click them out quickly? If it's really automatic, that's silly. Their range is reduced to melee, and they automatically run into attack range like any other unit. They don't automatically run out of the Blinding Cloud necessarily (that would be silly). If they get into Melee range before they leave the Blinding Cloud, they will stay there. | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On December 19 2012 01:26 kcdc wrote: Do units really run out automatically or do people just move-click them out quickly? If it's really automatic, that's silly. Actually i love the idea of a blind marine running, totally in panic, in the arms of the swarm <3 | ||
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TheManInBlack
Nigeria266 Posts
On December 19 2012 01:26 Uni1987 wrote: Oh, you got a degree in starcraft 2? I don't think so, thus making his opinion of higher value than yours. I coulnd't care less about you being a postgrad, nor does it apply on this discussion but nice of you to bring it up, narcissistic much? Of course I cannot take you seriously, it's like saying "Oh Lionel Messi, what a terrible shot, you should have done it that way!". I do not revere Idra, I simply respect the opinion of a professional. Are you actually an idiot or are you just pretending to be one? You asked me who I was, so I told you. That was even meant to cement the fact that I had no SC2 'qualifications' aside being a casual, in case you tried to use it against me - which you ended up doing anyway because you lack reading comprehension. Football and SC2 are 2 VERY different things rofl. Gotta love people who try to inflate the importance of SC2 by comparing it to a world wide sport that has been around for at least a century. I have my own personal opinions of idra, if you want I can have a PM conversation with you. But I'll not have 'idra said this and that' mar this thread, hence my original comments. User was banned for this post. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On December 19 2012 01:26 Uni1987 wrote: Oh, you got a degree in starcraft 2? I don't think so, thus making his opinion of higher value than yours. I coulnd't care less about you being a postgrad, nor does it apply on this discussion but nice of you to bring it up, narcissistic much? Of course I cannot take you seriously, it's like saying "Oh Lionel Messi, what a terrible shot, you should have done it that way!". I do not revere Idra, I simply respect the opinion of a professional. Well then why dont you respect his opinion to NOT take Idras opinion as fact? This is the thing about Idra. Half the time he is very analytical and makes alot of sense, The other half he is like a 6 year old throwing a tantrum. I for one cant stand idra and IMO, like many others, do not and will not be forced into agreement with Idras nut huggers to share your Idols OPINION | ||
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krell
United States109 Posts
However, it seems blizzard hates reapplying succesful units. IE, Swarm Host vs Lurker, "Hell Bat" (still can't get over that name) vs the Firebat. Guardian vs Broodlord. At one point they were even going to name the Carrier a "Tempest" (this was pre-WoL beta.) The tempest in that form was basically a carrier, just slightly different. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
I think the solution is a ghost buff, make snipe viable again and make it strong against viper. | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On December 19 2012 01:50 emc wrote: if it didn't effect mechanical, the spell would be completely useless against protoss. The way it is now is it's an incredibly deadly ability in late game, and I like that, it's a new age defiler. I do think the spell is a little too powerful against mech because mech is so slow and positional, at least protoss can mitigate it by moving. I think the solution is a ghost buff, make snipe viable again and make it strong against viper. Or buff tanks as there is now a zerg hardcounter to it | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On December 19 2012 01:51 Insoleet wrote: Or buff tanks as there is now a zerg hardcounter to it as long as it comes late enough thats fine with me as zerg. so as an upgrade. | ||
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