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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7006241439
Our goal with this [Tempest] unit is described well by Phantom. The main purpose for this unit is definitely to deal with mass colossi in PvP as well as to force an engagement vs. Zerg who is sitting back being on the defensive with mass Infestors/Broodlords. We eventually want to phase out Vortex a bit once we are sure Tempests are working well.
The secondary use of Tempest is to pressure the opponent in the mid game, but not kill everything the opponent has.
We just made a couple changes to buff both scenarios, so please give the Tempest another try and let us know how it feels now. Thank you.
Blizzard wants Tempests to fix colossi wars PvP and Broodlord/Infestor in ZvP. Do you think they are succeeding?
What do people with the beta think of PvP and ZvP currently?
Edit: I suppose he could've also meant keep Vortex, but give Protoss users more options so they do not have to rely on it exclusively.
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all i know is they're raping in PvT's i've been watching. in theory it makes sense they would also be able to hold their own against colossi and brood lords but i haven't seen any of it yet.
he may have been saying that they intend to nerf vortex a bit? it kinda makes sense - they were probably hesitant to nerf it before considering it's so important to lategame PvZ, but if the tempest gives lategame P enough breathing room to play it out without using vortex everytime then they're able to tweak the mothership more freely.
personally i think when the mothership hits the board, you should be scared. it's the protoss army's mobile base and it should be powerful (when properly supported). but one or two vortexes to end the game does get old. personally i'd like to see vortex be less pivotal and the mothership itself more pivotal. but i don't think we can expect a drastic redesign of the unit for HotS, unless the beta goes on way longer than WoL beta did.
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If they had any sense they would delete the mothership.
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Vortex needs to go so bad
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I hope what he means is that the Tempest will eventually make Vortex obsolete and it can be removed from the game.
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Either way, I hope vortex just starts getting used a lot less. I would love to see it just be a niche spell you see every once in a while. It seems like common knowledge at this point that having a match-up rest entirely on one spell is poor design, and just boring... 
That all being said, I am one of the (apparently very few) people left on TL who has faith in blizz to make an awesome expansion at the end of the day. They know vortex is a problem and they will do something about it properly sooner or later.
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It would be a great first step in making late game zvp a little more exciting if it all didn't go down to vortex, still think other issues need to be resolved though in zvp in general (i'm not even talking about balance, but to somehow make the mu somewhat entertaining would be nice xD)
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Am I the only one less excited by the removal of Vortex
and more excited by the prospect of a new spell on the Mothership?
I hope it gets Planet Cracker back.
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how's zerg supposed to win the end game ?
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On October 29 2012 05:06 wcr.4fun wrote:
how's zerg supposed to win the end game ?
Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor... Maybe Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor/Viper
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Fix the title please. Not rework. Removal.
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On October 29 2012 05:17 Prodigal wrote:
Fix the title please. Not rework. Removal.
If you reread what Dayvie said, he wants to phase it out a bit. Removal isn't phasing it out just a bit, it's phasing it out entirely.
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it would also add a dynamic to TvP where the more mobile Stargate play harasses/forces Mech to engage, but that would mean that Mech has to be much stronger (because right now it's fine defensively but its very hard to pressure/punish some things since u have to have perfect engagements)
also i don't understand, why can't they just buff Void rays to do more damage vs Massive units? And then Tempest can still force engagements with its long range and harass, but it would be weaker since it doesn't also counter Colossi/BL.
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Called it! :D
And now we wait for word about FF...
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On October 29 2012 05:19 Ljas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 05:17 Prodigal wrote:
Fix the title please. Not rework. Removal. If you reread what Dayvie said, he wants to phase it out a bit. Removal isn't phasing it out just a bit, it's phasing it out entirely.
Well vortex is a binary spell. Phasing out a spell like that would imply:
-changing duration and cost
-changing its effect (removing invulnerability, damage over time... Whatever creative idea you can think of)
The former would a buff or nerf, the nerf being only 1 vortex per battle. The latter would change the spell entirely, most likely including a name change.
In any case, the current iteration of vortex is removed. So a title that isint misleading would include removal, or nerf.
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On October 29 2012 05:37 Prodigal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 05:19 Ljas wrote:On October 29 2012 05:17 Prodigal wrote:
Fix the title please. Not rework. Removal. If you reread what Dayvie said, he wants to phase it out a bit. Removal isn't phasing it out just a bit, it's phasing it out entirely. Well vortex is a binary spell. Phasing out a spell like that would imply: -changing duration and cost -changing its effect (removing invulnerability, damage over time... Whatever creative idea you can think of) The former would a buff or nerf, the nerf being only 1 vortex per battle. The latter would change the spell entirely, most likely including a name change. In any case, the current iteration of vortex is removed. So a title that isint misleading would include removal, or nerf.
They already played with that in the alpha. Vortex only hits ground. I believe that is what they will re-implement. Just like they removed all the BC changes (that were already confirmed at the end of the alpha), just like they removed all the Raven changes (that were very logical), they removed the Vortex change, so that people had to test the new units first. (if you watched the first week of the beta... TvZ was just mass Raven+BC; "New units? YAMATOOOOOOOOOOO")
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On October 29 2012 05:41 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 05:37 Prodigal wrote:On October 29 2012 05:19 Ljas wrote:On October 29 2012 05:17 Prodigal wrote:
Fix the title please. Not rework. Removal. If you reread what Dayvie said, he wants to phase it out a bit. Removal isn't phasing it out just a bit, it's phasing it out entirely. Well vortex is a binary spell. Phasing out a spell like that would imply: -changing duration and cost -changing its effect (removing invulnerability, damage over time... Whatever creative idea you can think of) The former would a buff or nerf, the nerf being only 1 vortex per battle. The latter would change the spell entirely, most likely including a name change. In any case, the current iteration of vortex is removed. So a title that isint misleading would include removal, or nerf. They already played with that in the alpha. Vortex only hits ground. I believe that is what they will re-implement. Just like they removed all the BC changes (that were already confirmed at the end of the alpha), just like they removed all the Raven changes (that were very logical), they removed the Vortex change, so that people had to test the new units first. (if you watched the first week of the beta... TvZ was just mass Raven+BC; "New units? YAMATOOOOOOOOOOO")
Question, what were the raven changes? Sounds very interesting, thanks in advance!
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100 energy HSM was one. Didn't see others
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On October 29 2012 05:37 Antylamon wrote:
Called it! :D
And now we wait for word about FF...
haha if they managed to take out FF without fucking up everything I would shed tears of happiness
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On October 29 2012 05:54 Leviance wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 05:37 Antylamon wrote:
Called it! :D
And now we wait for word about FF... haha if they managed to take out FF without fucking up everything I would shed tears of happiness
Rather see it nerfed badly then taken out. Imagine better gateway units, and more expensive, higher tier forcefield.
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EPT
