EPTI’m not sure why they removed energize. I think it’s a good spell that people are still trying to figure out.
The rest I am ok with.
HotS Balance Update #6 10/12/12 - Page 5
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
I’m not sure why they removed energize. I think it’s a good spell that people are still trying to figure out. The rest I am ok with. | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
rest of patch is nice. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Also those are some really great changes. like the changes. didnt like the widow mine only getting a supersmall nerf but after thinking about it more it makes sense to nerf it very slowly from its OP stage until it is alright. although removing cloak and antiair should be the start of nerfing them. rest of patch is nice. It doesn't need nerfing, just buff detection for the other races, which they have done. | ||
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
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pmp10
3318 Posts
Are the detection changes all because of widow mines? Wasn't revelation suppose to help combat cloaked ghosts with observer sniping? Why is tempest overlapping so much with voidray? Hopefully that just a crazy-idea testing phase but honestly blizzard should have passed it by now. | ||
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:01 opus55 wrote: This won't stay in the game for long. What should Zerg do about a 15 range tempest somewhere in noman's land behind their main at the 6 or 7 minute mark, shooting at the drones? That's more to do with map design imo. If you have too much air space, like condemmed ridge, this stuff will happen. Antiga shipyard would be much more difficult, but there is still one gap above (assuming you spawn bottom left) the main that can be abused. We'll have to see what happens. Personally, I think a good way to fix it (because I like every change of the tempest) is to have an upgrade for the range increase at the fleet beacon, hence delaying the super long range harass you could see early. | ||
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rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
MSC had a good tension going to it on par with orbital commands energize = mule: primary economic boosting ability mass recall = scan: situational but highly useful ability purify = supply drop: whoa i messed up badly and need an emergency fix | ||
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Noahnao
United States11 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:14 a176 wrote: What exactly are you going to detect at 13 range? Swarm hosts are well outside that range. I don't think they're intending for it to detect swarm hosts, and it would honestly be better to ask this question in reverse. Which standard harass units that are cloaked or burrowed are not affected by this? Affected: Widow Mines Banshees DTs Unaffected: ??? | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
Bat Hellion Bat Hell Hellbat ... | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
Also, i'm going to quote myself from the last balance update: I like how they have no fucking idea of what to do with the Oracle. | ||
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Grendel
Belgium126 Posts
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AnonymousEmu
Canada70 Posts
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rellewkram
United States2 Posts
First post (wooho!) thought I'd chime in. Background on me, Zerg player, high Plat / low Diamond. First off: On October 13 2012 06:42 p1cKLes wrote: I actually think there is too much detection. I'm inclined to agree, although I think that all of these new HotS units and detection changes are making detection a different animal rather than necessarily making too much detection. In BW for example, as was pointed out previously somewhere (I think maybe on Bnet forums) Zerg had detection from the get go. Detection just seems kind've random now. Different races can acquire it at vastly different tech levels and timings. For example, now Zerg can build a spore crawler very early, the motivation being solely anti-cloak and not anti-air in the least. (I suppose this was relatively common before the no-evo chamber patch, but it's pretty obvious that this is a direct answer to widow mine rushes.) Toss can detect near a nexus, but this seems to have limited use. Otherwise Obs is the only choice, and I agree with several statements regarding the forcing of Robo tech tree early on in case of cloaked unit use. This seems to force Toss play to be based on Robo/ground, especially earlier, which is kind've a bummer for variety in play styles. Terran is basically unchanged in this regard, but it's ability to use cloaked units against other matchups changes quite a bit. Banshee harass, which is very commonly used against zergs may become weaker with the change to spores, although I suppose most zergs should have evo and ability to get spores by the time cloak banshees hit. The Tempest seems like it may be imba versus Zerg if rushed, but I guess we'll see. I wonder if these rushes become common if Zerg will be forced to go early Spire relative to the current Spire timings in the current metagame. I feel like that might make Zerg a bit more one dimensional, kind've like how the removal of detection from the Oracle confines Toss to going Robo unless they want to waste cash on cannons or roll the dice and hope for no cloak/burrow harass. (Analogously, Zerg could opt for later Spire vs Toss but might get burned hard if Toss goes Tempest rush.) I don't know what to think about this patch other than it seems like a lot of random changes to balance some units that are honestly strange to begin with. As Teoita just mentioned, it does really seem like they don't know what to do with a lot of these new units, and what roles they are really meant to serve. My final gripe about this patch is more with the philosophy currently being employed regarding balance. Namely, "let us balance new units, and then we'll put bandaids on the WoL units." I think this is flawed thinking, because it limits the ability to really iron out problems with WoL metagame etc that will carry over into HotS. I don't think that fixing undesirable metagame issues solely by just introducing new units is the way to go. It seems like an iterative method with making small changes to old and new units in conjunction would yield the most balanced and enjoyable final product. On the other hand, they have a ton of work to do, and although I can't fully appreciate it, I can imagine that balancing a game and optimizing over so many variables would be incredibly difficult, so I suppose I understand why they'd opt to try and balance new units first. Just my $.02. If I've made any silly statements, feel free to point them out! | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:42 p1cKLes wrote: I actually think there is too much detection. You are really limiting some strategies by having this much detection. Dt’s, banshees, blink stalker in the natural, etc. You are also limiting some of Protoss’s air play against zerg. Ya I agree. They should reduce the cost of banshee cloak now and combine the HT and DT shrine now imo. I'm really hapy about the Tempest change though. That unit was waaaaay too expensive and on top of that requiring a fleet beacon just made it a laughable unit. I've liked the concept for it so hopefully we'll see some cool use out of it now! | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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Salient
United States876 Posts
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