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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:09 Lysenko wrote: Remember that in BW, Zerg spawned with detection, because overlords detected with no upgrade at all.  spore colony still needed an evo. and a creep colony to start too. | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On October 13 2012 05:50 playa wrote: DT strats are no longer viable against Zerg because they don't know how to properly balance the widow mine? Nice. Throw enough random darts, I'm sure you're bound to eventually hit near the middle. Prepared to wait two years + for this beta to end. The only question is when will the changes tempt me to play it again. At this rate, probably never. dt's are never really good vs zerg anyway above diamond because they are just so easy to scout. | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
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PardonYou
United States1360 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:12 SarcasmMonster wrote: Can you stay alive if you rush to Tempest that quickly? Also, don't you need to have vision, so they'd have to be somewhat close, depending on unit vision. I don't know sight ranges as I cannot test it out yet. It'll be interesting to see people try to rush proxy it, because if it's found it's not going to be good for the Protoss. Because of the extra min/gas put into it. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:16 LgNKami wrote: dt's are never really good vs zerg anyway above diamond because they are just so easy to scout. I wouldn't be using them above Diamond if that were remotely true. 70% win versus zerg, 1500 plus masters last season (first full season of playing SC 2). Dt's aren't bad at all, it just comes down to denying the third for long enough so they can't already have spores up. And then, you have to air units to deny overseers, so you can tech up without being in risk of losing to counters and such. | ||
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HeavenResign
United States702 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
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opus55
Germany31 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:12 SarcasmMonster wrote: Can you stay alive if you rush to Tempest that quickly? You can always get a forge and completely wall off at your ramp, if the opening is not stable otherwise; but I think that this is not needed, it should be less risky than a one-base DT opening against one-base Zerg pressure, since it consumes less ressources. | ||
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Defrag
Poland414 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:14 a176 wrote: What exactly are you going to detect at 13 range? Swarm hosts are well outside that range. Widow mines, they were forcing robo or cannons in base, now u can use MSC. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
Edit : On October 13 2012 06:16 LgNKami wrote: dt's are never really good vs zerg anyway above diamond because they are just so easy to scout. It's your own opinion. I don't care what league you are, but i still see DTs being a bitch to deal with particularly in mid-late game. Works wonder while doing multi-pronged attacks obviously. | ||
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ragnorr
Denmark6097 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:19 Blazinghand wrote: If spore crawlers no longer need an evo chamber I want to be able to build turrets without an engineering bay lol To be fair tho, most games i see people go for dt/cloak banshee the zerg already has a evo chamber running. Glad they are making tempest non fleet becon tho | ||
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL On topic I really don't understand the need for a lot of these changes, it just seems kinda of like a...well we need to change something it's Friday...patch. | ||
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opus55
Germany31 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:18 NexRex wrote: Also, don't you need to have vision, so they'd have to be somewhat close, depending on unit vision. I don't know sight ranges as I cannot test it out yet. It'll be interesting to see people try to rush proxy it, because if it's found it's not going to be good for the Protoss. Because of the extra min/gas put into it. Perhaps you can build an oracle after the tempest and use that vision spell? Or you can get a phoenix after it and dance behind the minerals, avoiding queen fire. | ||
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Horizon.Infinite
United Kingdom4 Posts
Removing the means of detection gives Protoss players less incentive to go Stargate, and now we're back to observers for our only means of mobile detection. Moving out in the early game vs T is not going to be possible until we have the Robo up, so we are pretty much back to where we were. Seems they are having to change so much just to balance the widow mine. Spores don't require Evo, this has just made cloaked banshee and DT play so much weaker, all because of the widow mine. Given the widow mines current form, I don't think it would be wrong to bring back the Armory requirement, they have pretty much replaced the Helion for the early damage unit. Bad patch, very disappointed. | ||
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Pisko.
United States214 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:21 RaiZ wrote: So basically, there's a thumb up for every buff and a thumb down for every nerf. Talk about not being biased here... People are thumbing down the Spore change hard. I would also argue that the Oracle change is not strictly a nerf. | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
Viper change I'm neutral about, though better acceleration probably helps out mobility since they are frail. Spore crawler change I don't like, and the argument against it(widow mine rush) seems a little iffy, figured slight tweaks to the mine like burrow time would be enough. Widow mine change is good, burrow time was a little to fast with their hp, and they are meant to lean more towards positioning ahead of time than in combat. Hellbat is an interesting name that actually fits really well, hell stands in well for fire and it's basically a power armor infantry with flamethrowers when transformed, just like the firebat is. All in all, seems like a really good patch. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On October 13 2012 06:19 Blazinghand wrote: If spore crawlers no longer need an evo chamber I want to be able to build turrets without an engineering bay lol You have scans, Zerg doesn't. Honestly, it'll be interesting to see if this spore crawler change sticks. It's possible they'll look at overall impacts to the game and decide that too-easy detection isn't a good move just to make the current widow mine work. People are thumbing down the Spore change hard. T and P are. I haven't seen any Zerg experts expressing the opinion so far that it'll break the game, and usually that's the sign of something that's significantly out of whack. Not to say it won't happen, just haven't seen it yet. | ||
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HeavenResign
United States702 Posts
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