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HotS Balance Update #6 10/12/12 - Page 6

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
551 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 28 Next All
Swords
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
6038 Posts
October 12 2012 22:17 GMT
#101
I'm hoping they don't keep these changes to detection. Cloaked units seem incredibly non-threatening if spores are so easy to access and nexi can have detection. It makes the DT path virtually worthless until maybe the extreme lategame, and cloaked banshees fairly useless as well except for TvT. I understand they need to do something to try and fix mine rushes, but making changes that effect every single unit that uses cloak seems like a little much.
Thezzy
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands2117 Posts
October 12 2012 22:21 GMT
#102
Am I correct in thinking that all forms of early Cloak harass is now useless?
Zerg can now insta-spore crawler and Protoss can just Purify.
If this is to deal with Widow Mine harass they should focus on the Widow Mine, not blatantly give out detection.
Going for early Banshees or DTs is still risky (very little army) and delays an expansion, which is compensated for in WoL by forcing detection and defensive play from the opponent.
Now all of the pressure Cloaked harass provides is just gone.
Playing Terran is like flying down a MULE drop in a marine suit, firing a Gauss Rifle
rellewkram
Profile Joined October 2012
United States2 Posts
October 12 2012 22:22 GMT
#103
On October 13 2012 07:17 Swords wrote:
I'm hoping they don't keep these changes to detection. Cloaked units seem incredibly non-threatening if spores are so easy to access and nexi can have detection. It makes the DT path virtually worthless until maybe the extreme lategame, and cloaked banshees fairly useless as well except for TvT. I understand they need to do something to try and fix mine rushes, but making changes that effect every single unit that uses cloak seems like a little much.


I totally agree. Making global changes like this to fix broken use of a new unit (which is already unbalanced because it just hasn't had time to become balanced yet) seems like a poor way to try and balance a game. The larger than change that is made, the more small changes need to be added later to balance it out.

I'm kind've wondering if there is a fundamental issue with the widow mine, as it seems to be the source of a lot of controversy, patching, and balance issues that seem to be upsetting game dynamics. (Although I suppose that's another topic entirely.)
sns3rsam
Profile Joined September 2012
United States138 Posts
October 12 2012 22:23 GMT
#104
I watched a couple of players playing around with blinding cloud and I noticed units underneath automatically tried to get within range one. unfortunately, this seems to make units get pushed out of the blinding cloud, almost as if it requires almost no micro to get out of blinding cloud. I feel that blizz needs to take this out and reduce radius back to 1.5.
"Every Terran same to me... uhhhh ezpz" -DRG // When Life gives you banelings...
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 22:25:21
October 12 2012 22:25 GMT
#105
Can someone please explain to me how the Tempest is even remotely useful? I'm just not seeing it. And the last thing Protoss needs is yet another 200/200 upgrade, especially on a unit you aren't going to make very often, and won't make more than a few per game.

Also, lol @ cloaked units being basically useless now.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
unteqair
Profile Joined November 2011
United States308 Posts
October 12 2012 22:25 GMT
#106
On October 13 2012 07:22 rellewkram wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 07:17 Swords wrote:
I'm hoping they don't keep these changes to detection. Cloaked units seem incredibly non-threatening if spores are so easy to access and nexi can have detection. It makes the DT path virtually worthless until maybe the extreme lategame, and cloaked banshees fairly useless as well except for TvT. I understand they need to do something to try and fix mine rushes, but making changes that effect every single unit that uses cloak seems like a little much.


I totally agree. Making global changes like this to fix broken use of a new unit (which is already unbalanced because it just hasn't had time to become balanced yet) seems like a poor way to try and balance a game. The larger than change that is made, the more small changes need to be added later to balance it out.

I'm kind've wondering if there is a fundamental issue with the widow mine, as it seems to be the source of a lot of controversy, patching, and balance issues that seem to be upsetting game dynamics. (Although I suppose that's another topic entirely.)

The game dynamics were messed up to begin with. I hope they keep doing crazy things so we can at least end up with a different, fresh, messed up dynamic.
rpgalon
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil1069 Posts
October 12 2012 22:26 GMT
#107
the tempest upgrade should be range, not damage....
badog
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
October 12 2012 22:27 GMT
#108
omg... no evo chamber for spore crawler and no hallu research is huge
133 221 333 123 111
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
October 12 2012 22:27 GMT
#109
I think Hellbat is a great change
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 22:28:58
October 12 2012 22:27 GMT
#110
The purify change won't stop cloaked banshee openings. The Toss might have enough energy to temporarily purify one base at the most. However, the change to spores is probably a major nerf to banshee openings in TvZ.
ZjiublingZ
Profile Joined September 2011
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
October 12 2012 22:28 GMT
#111
On October 13 2012 07:23 sns3rsam wrote:
I watched a couple of players playing around with blinding cloud and I noticed units underneath automatically tried to get within range one. unfortunately, this seems to make units get pushed out of the blinding cloud, almost as if it requires almost no micro to get out of blinding cloud. I feel that blizz needs to take this out and reduce radius back to 1.5.


I've noticed this too, though against Banelings or even Infestor/BL/Corruptor this is exactly what the Zerg wants. Also you can negate this a bit with Fungal. I don't know, it was pretty underwhelming before against almost everything, I think it's a good change to try.
Morton
Profile Joined July 2012
United States152 Posts
October 12 2012 22:33 GMT
#112
great to see them take at least some note in from the protoss identity thread by itwhospeaks

congrats!

the change to the widow mine is a start, and i like the viper changes as well.

every single patch to hots has been a good change, hope to see more in the future!
obsid
Profile Joined November 2008
United States389 Posts
October 12 2012 22:36 GMT
#113
-Purify Grants detection
Good change, improves non-robo builds but allows cloak as defense against them (just not as much offense).

-Energize gone
eh, I guess whatever, I thought Energize was nice to put some choices on how to use your energy on MSC and not just use it for mass recall all the time.

- Oracle Entomb buff
Entomb still seemed weak, so buffing it is good. I still think we will get to the point where it will be buffed enough where it cant be buffed anymore without being broken, and yet its still just not worth the cost.

-Oracle Lost detection and other changes
Losing detection on oracle was a very bad idea. Sure keep the purify detection, but dont take away the oracle detection too! Both is better. The increased duration and cost tends to say that it is meant to be used with the tempests, althogh because of the speed of the tempest, I cant see this working out except in some kind of "siege" of a base, but that doesnt seem like a great use of the oracle when hallucinations can do the detection just as easily.

-Tempest Buff
I like this change, time will tell if its too much of a buff (and some midleground can be found). But I like the way this is going with an upgrade for the +massive dmg (which most of the time was never used anyway currently). The only problem I see is the tempest and the voidray are in some conflict sharing roles.

-no Hallucination research
Good I guess, Improves lower level play, doesnt hurt higher level play. Will be intresting seeing how this interacts with the tempest and using the Hallucination to scout for their 15 range....

-Viper changes
Sounds good, 1.5 was a little too small, and they are fairly easy to kill right now we will see how the acc changes that.

-Spore Crawler not requre evo
Not sure I agree with this change, I think just increase the activation time on the mines from 2 to like 4-5 (rather then 3) would have been better then changing this.

-Widow Mine activation time change
I like this, widow mines were brokenly powerful in offense and drops, this should make that harder while still keeping their role. I would have like to have seen them take away the "hits air" or the "hits invis" or the splash damage or reduce the range. Keeping all of those makes the mines a bit too "well rounded" and presents very few ways to effectivly clear a mine field even if you know its there.
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
October 12 2012 22:39 GMT
#114
Some questionable changes there.

lol at spore crawler with no evo chamber
Atrbyg
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States513 Posts
October 12 2012 22:42 GMT
#115
Not really sure about the spore crawler change. It affects way more than the problem it was intended to solve.
Jinmaster
Profile Joined March 2004
United States36 Posts
October 12 2012 22:45 GMT
#116
I just want someone to stream some PvZs where P secures his nat and then goes phoenix / tempest and camps air space by zerg's minerals.
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
October 12 2012 22:45 GMT
#117
SHADOW OF THE BAT
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Rube_Juice
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada348 Posts
October 12 2012 22:46 GMT
#118
Hallucination is free? what the shit? They go from Protoss can't scout to Protoss gets free scouts the entire game. Can't even believe this.
willoc
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1530 Posts
October 12 2012 22:50 GMT
#119
Interesting detection changes for Toss and Zerg. Banshee opening vs. zerg might just suck now. Hellbat naming ftw. Widow mine change is great!
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 12 2012 22:50 GMT
#120
On October 13 2012 07:46 Rube_Juice wrote:
Hallucination is free? what the shit? They go from Protoss can't scout to Protoss gets free scouts the entire game. Can't even believe this.


Yep, everyone gets more information in HotS. The terran version burrows, grants vision and kills the first thing it sees.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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